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This is a discussion forum not a word game. You answer your own question and back it up with a few scriptures AND I will show you to be wrong and back it with scripture. My main guns are Matthew 7:21-23, Jeremiah 13:11-14 and Romans 1:24, 26, 28. The ball is in your court.Let's take another crack at it. Does God save everyone He chooses? - YES or NO?
This is a discussion forum not a word game. You answer your own question and back it up with a few scriptures AND I will show you to be wrong and back it with scripture. My main guns are Matthew 7:21-23, Jeremiah 13:11-14 and Romans 1:24, 26, 28. The ball is in your court.
I am assuming this is in answer to my question. "Was the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah saved?" Your answer is, "yes." God's answer is "no."Yes! Can you do that?
Edit to add. Any question in which you want a direct answer of Yes or No, let me know and I'll give you a Yes or No. I'm that confident that God will save everyone in due time.
NO! God CHOSE the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah.Let's take another crack at it. Does God save everyone He chooses? - YES or NO?
I am assuming this is in answer to my question. "Was the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah saved?" Your answer is, "yes." God's answer is "no."
Jeremiah 13:11God chose the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah. God did NOT save the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah.
(11) For as the loincloth clings to the waist of a man, so I made the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah cling to me, declares the LORD, that they might be for me a people, a name, a praise, and a glory, but they would not listen.
Jeremiah 13:13-14
(13) Then you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD: Behold, I will fill with drunkenness all the inhabitants of this land: the kings who sit on David's throne, the priests, the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, fathers and sons together, declares the LORD. I will not pity or spare or have compassion, that I should not destroy them.’”
And you were dead wrong!That is incorrect! You stating stuff I DID NOT SAY. Your question was:
"Did God choose the whole house of Israel and Judah? Yes or no!"
Of which I said "Yes".
Absolutely false accusation! Get your facts straight, if you are going to compete with the big boys! I did NOT use any scripture "out of context." The version of the Bible I quoted had a word in the future tense, you found another version that had the word in the present tense. And in that verse the difference did NOT materially affect the meaning as I showed you. Strike 1 false accusation.You have used scriptures out of context, you have used scriptures that you presented as giving a future tense only to have me show you that they were stated in the Present tense of which you then acknowledged after the fact.
I twisted nothing! I have provided no fallacies! Unlike you making vague references to previous posts, see red highlights above, I quoted everything as posted and posted my response immediately after. Strike 2You also, twist the questions of which i specifically gave answers to different questions. This is NOT a discussion at this point. This is just you avoiding questions and logical debate and instead providing fallacies. I see nothing productive in this back and forth and will response openly to your statements but not directly.
Is this the same God who said of the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them?'You ask me, it seems God is pretty bold here:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
He seems to believe that He can get anything He desires. And I believe Him.
You evidently disagree with Matthew 7:23. "They believe that FEW shall be saved because the many that call Jesus Lord Lord will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven."What do ETers preach:
1. Believe God cannot eradicate sin (though John says the purpose that Jesus came was to eradicate sin) but instead must relocate them with their sins into a fiery abode.
1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
2. While God knows the end from the beginning He creates most people to go to a fiery punishment that never ends.
3. Believe God can fail to save everyone.
5. Don't believe God gets what He desires ultimately.
6. They don't believe that salvation is 100% the work of God but believe that a portion of that work requires man's OWN part so that man can be blamed when he fails.
7. God allows sin and Death to rob God of His potential Family members.
8. Believe that Man is responsible for the work of God and ultimately his failure will require that man be held responsible.
9. God is either incapable or undesirable to finish the work He started in many people.
Your opinion about "eternal punishment," the Biblical term, is rubbish.This is just a great verse I like to provide it often so others can really appreciate what it says:
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Often I have to tell others that Jesus was sent to ERADICATE sin. The man-made doctrine of Eternal Torment never addresses this key purpose for which the Lord was manifested.
Again this Traditional Hell is a relocation plan. It does nothing to eradicate sin and negates and mocks the purpose for which Jesus has come.
For my Universalists Brothers and Sisters, understand that Aionios is NOT a "limited duration". I know that many of you have been taught that but it really isn't and can't pass the context test when used in that manner. This misunderstanding of the term only emboldens Eternal Torment crowd.
Aionios is an Adjective describing a time the something as AGE-Enduring. Meaning it doesn't tell you if something has an infinite or finite duration. Instead it simple means something is of a nature to exist and continue to exist beyond the horizon of the existing age.
Too bad you can't find some kind of scholarly work e.g. a lexicon, which states any of this. Just internet gossip.For my Universalists Brothers and Sisters, understand that Aionios is NOT a "limited duration". I know that many of you have been taught that but it really isn't and can't pass the context test when used in that manner. This misunderstanding of the term only emboldens Eternal Torment crowd.
Aionios is an Adjective describing a time the something as AGE-Enduring. Meaning it doesn't tell you if something has an infinite or finite duration. Instead it simple means something is of a nature to exist and continue to exist beyond the horizon of the existing age.
The eternal torment ones love thinking our Father will keep suffering going on for ever and ever & ever.
The whole of created life shall be delivered!
Aion & Aionios
When you have earned a graduate degree with a ThD or PhD after your name and have published a peer reviewed dissertation referencing 80 or more historical sources from which you have reached your conclusions then your opinion might have some relevance. I just googled LENNEP, zip.I would disagree with his analysis of the word. I see no way in which this term would ever be applied to God if it were of a limited duration. I've studied this subject so intensely, I would have to bet I did so than more than many scholars. I looked at LENNEP on this subject and agreed with Rev Goodwin's analysis if LENNEP on this more. I went back and did a concordant analysis of the scriptures with every occurrence and not limited to just those in the NT but used the LXX as well. Most ETers don't really debate from the LXX side of things but I got tools that pull the words out from all those text as well and analyzed them all. My current conclusion is that Aionios describes something that endures the age. That may mean it possesses a different quality in order to do so but in any case, it never speaks to how long it endures pass the age boundary - but that is significant in my opinion because I believe it causes you to HERALD the next age when we hear of Aionios Life. I then immediately see it as speak of LIFE that endures the existing age into the Next Age. Therefore, My FOCUS is immediately attentive to that NEXT age which we all know is the Age when our Lord Jesus Christ will take over dominion of this world.
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