Daily Christian Universalist Verses

[Der Alte]

[Previous post continued]

Paul used the word “aionios” twenty two [22] times. It is correctly translated “eternal/everlasting” 22 times. In the following 14 verses Paul defines/describes “aionios” as eternal.

[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite age life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen. ​

In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)," a finite period, cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.

[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

In Rom 1:20, above, Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars unanimously agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aionios” synonymous with “aidios.” In this verse, by definition, “aionios” means eternal, everlasting etc.

[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]​

In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/ ”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.​

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” God is not going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an indeterminate age. The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios] ​

In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite age, God cannot be “immortal” and exist only for a finite age at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”

[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]​

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”

[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life. ​

In this verse Paul parallels “aionios life” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite age,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”

[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen. ​

In this verse Paul parallels “aion” and “aionios” with “immortal.” “Aion”/”aionios” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite age and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion”/”aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​

In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite ‘age’ life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”

[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen. ​

In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios/ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[indent][23]Romans 6:23
(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal [αιωνιος/aionios]life [/indent]
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “death” with [αιωνιος/aionios] life. By definition aionios mean “eternal.”
[indent][24]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
life through Jesus Christ our Lord.[/indent]
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “corruption” with life [αιωνιος/aionios]. By definition aionios mean “everlasting.”

[25]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.​

In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite age” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”

[26]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.​

In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”

[27]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.​

In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”

[28]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon lit. unto eternities of eternities] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite age” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “unto eternities of eternities.”
= = = = = = =
Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή/ ou mé has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή/ou mé also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή/ ou mé (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.

 

[GTW27]

Some people don't understand that "chaff" is not the same thing as "tares" in another passage. "Chaff" is a part of the grain, an inedible, hard outer husk. Tares are a totally different plant, a weed that grows up among the grain.

And understanding is of The Lord, and not the reading and studying of many books. Be Blessed!

 

[Deafsilence]

There is NO, ZERO, NONE archaeological evidence that Ge Hinnom was ever used a trash dump. The existing evidence shows that the dump was in the kidron valley.


"Aionios" is an adjective "age" is a noun, enduring is a noun. What you "believe" is not relevant. The BDAG definition I posted represents 120-160 years of combined scholarship NOT what one scholar "believed." If you want to prove BDAG wrong you must do it by disproving their 60-70 sources.
Jesus said that "aionios life" means "shall not perish" 3 times.

There is ZERO, NO, ZERO, evidence that it wasn't.

Also for Aionios, I'm right, and any scholar believing otherwise is wrong. Aionios is indeed an adjective. And it does mean age-enduring as even some scholars also believe.

YLT:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[Deafsilence]

“αιωνιος/aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 3 times in the N.T. [1%]
“aionios” is correctly translated “eternal” 42 times in the N.T.[52%]
“aionios” is correctly translated “everlasting” 25 times in the N.T.[34.7%]
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, [38.8% of total] Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something common, ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following 26 verses “αιων/aion//αιωνιος/aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or descriptive phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “αιων/aion//αιωνιος/aionios never mean eternity/eternal,” because a few times they refer to something which is not eternal e.g. “world.”
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by adjectives or descriptive phrases, as meaning a period less than eternal, as in the following NT verses.
…..In the following ten verses Jesus defines/describes “aionios” as “eternal.” Lk 1:33, John 6:58, 10:28, 3:15, 3:16, 5:29, 3:36, 4:14, 6:27, 8:51

[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei [Vb.] over the house of Jacob for ever; [αιωνας/aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias, [Nn.] there shall be no end.[telos]​

In this verse the reign/basileusei, the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal, no end.

[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios] ​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “live aionios” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite age, a finite period life is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

[3]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[4] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life. ​

In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish,” twice. Believers could eventually perish in a finite age, by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.

[5] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand”, and “never perish.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite age,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’/never perish” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen] I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite age,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.

[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.

[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​

In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.

[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.​

In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.

[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."​

In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means unto eternity.

[Character Limit. Continued next post]

Ok, I think now that I got you committed and evidenced to support that aionios means "eternal", now let's get your definition of what Eternal means?

So tell me what does eternal mean? Does it mean something that:

1.) always exists - both in the past, present, and future.
2.) exists only in the present and future without end
3.) only exist perpetually in the future
4.) ____________ fill in the blank.

Or are you one of those people that are caught in a trap with these questions and must resort to a far broader set of definitions that must be applied in specific cases of the word (which means you fail to know the real meaning of the word).

 

[Deafsilence]

You really don't get it do you? You find 1-2 incidents where a word e.g. "aionios" is used figuratively and you think that proves it does not mean eternal. When the bush that Moses saw was not destroyed by the fire does that prove that fire never destroys anything? Or does it prove that bushes don't burn up?
Try doing what I did review every occurrence of "aionios" in the N.TY. and see what it proves. I'll help you out see my next post.

Oh, I don't see it being used figuratively at all. In fact, I've been baiting you this whole time to pour your evidence and support for aionios to mean eternal. And now I'm going to show you how confused and mired in difficulty your position is. So you think I've given you 1-2 incidents of an exception. But your about to give me many exceptions on what Eternal means to where it is used in the scriptures.

 

[HSong]

Ephesians 1:9-10: God's "purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time,"

This is God’s plan to save everyone and give everyone salvation. Nobody can stop that plan from being fulfilled. Who can be an obstacle to God and His infinite power? Nobody! Therefore, everyone will obtain salvation through Jesus Christ.

 

[Deafsilence]

The main problem that many have in regards to universal salvation is that they believe universalists are preaching a way to be saved without the need to be righteous. That simply is not the case. We believe that everyone will eventually become righteous whether in this current dispensation or PAY for their sins and/or receive MERCY in the next dispensation. Either way, God's will shall be accomplished and there IS a precedent for this. We simply need to look at the Old Testament.

God called his LEVITES first - they were the CHOSEN ones. Those that repent in this dispensation and overcome will be the CHOSEN ones in the next dispensation. The New Covenant Levites are not levites by genealogy but by Spirituality. After the CHOSEN Levites could be sanctified and made pure then they could then administer unto the rest of the congregation. Now fast forward, and we see that all the Gentiles were grafted in. This now means that the people selected to be saved is now the entire world. But through Christ (Israel) and His administration which will include the 12 Apostles and all those CHOSEN during this dispensation who shall rule with Him at His Coming.

The problem is that people are ignoring this precedent and not seeing how Christ under the New Testament is making it replete. For all of the former was a TYPE (Schoolmaster) bringing us to what is now the New Covenant and what is Coming.

As the Israelites were in the wilderness for 40 years, so is the current Dispensation in the Spiritual Wilderness for 40 Jubilees. And then just as Joshua was a type of the 2nd Coming of Christ, then after those 40 Jubilees are expired, will come Jesus and He like Joshua shall bring down the fortified walls of the enemy and avenge and take over this promised land.

 

[Der Alte]

You know in the circles of some of us Greek Koine Students we have an understanding that when it comes to transliteration we don't apply modal verbs because in doing so we infer that God is not ALL Powerful.
should, would, could, etc... are modal verbs that shouldn't be used in the context of God performing an action and therefore, the transliteration of the text should exclude them.

@HSong
I'll tell you what amigo when you time travel back to when the Bible was being written and tell all those writers not to use any words or language inflections you don't like and somehow the Bible gets rewritten and none of the Greek words are in the subjunctive voice, everything in the NT is written in the present infinitive, then you can presume to give people Greek grammar lessons.
When the Bible was written God did not give the writers some kind of Holy language to write in. They used the common language of the people they were writing to. When the writers used different tenses, voices, moods their audiences understood them as they were written NOT how you think they should have been written to make them say what you want them to say.
While you are thinking up other ways to make the Bible say what you want it to tell me what you think these verses mean.
Jeremiah 13:11
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
Jeremiah 13:13-14
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Romans 1:24
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

 

[Der Alte]

The main problem that many have in regards to universal salvation is that they believe universalists are preaching a way to be saved without the need to be righteous. That simply is not the case. We believe that everyone will eventually become righteous whether in this current dispensation or PAY for their sins and/or receive MERCY in the next dispensation. Either way, God's will shall be accomplished and there IS a precedent for this. We simply need to look at the Old Testament.
God called his LEVITES first - they were the CHOSEN ones. Those that repent in this dispensation and overcome will be the CHOSEN ones in the next dispensation. The New Covenant Levites are not levites by genealogy but by Spirituality. After the CHOSEN Levites could be sanctified and made pure then they could then administer unto the rest of the congregation. Now fast forward, and we see that all the Gentiles were grafted in. This now means that the people selected to be saved is now the entire world. But through Christ (Israel) and His administration which will include the 12 Apostles and all those CHOSEN during this dispensation who shall rule with Him at His Coming.
The problem is that people are ignoring this precedent and not seeing how Christ under the New Testament is making it replete. For all of the former was a TYPE (Schoolmaster) bringing us to what is now the New Covenant and what is Coming.
As the Israelites were in the wilderness for 40 years, so is the current Dispensation in the Spiritual Wilderness for 40 Jubilees. And then just as Joshua was a type of the 2nd Coming of Christ, then after those 40 Jubilees are expired, will come Jesus and He like Joshua shall bring down the fortified walls of the enemy and avenge and take over this promised land.

Sorry I don't have the book of DeafSilence in any of my Bibles. And none of this is written in the Bibles I do have.

 

[FineLinen]

Ephesians 1:9-10: God's "purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time,"

This is God’s plan to save everyone and give everyone salvation. Nobody can stop that plan from being fulfilled. Who can be an obstacle to God and His infinite power? Nobody! Therefore, everyone will obtain salvation through Jesus Christ.

The purpose of God is wholly within Himself. There is no consultation with anyone. He swears by Himself, and out of Himself!

The purpose He cherishes = all reconciled to the Christ.

 

[Der Alte]

And understanding is of The Lord, and not the reading and studying of many books. Be Blessed!

As I told another "Bible Expert" in this thread. God did not send down some kind of Holy Bible languages for the writers of the Bible to use. If the writers wanted to be understood they had to write in the language that simple shepherds, farmers, stone masons etc. and their families understood. NOT some "holy hidden meaning" that only certain privileged people could understand.
When the Bible writer wrote "tares" that is what their intended audience understood. They knew that Tares was a type of plant similar to wheat. The same with "chaff" when the farmers harvested their grain, they had to thresh it to separate the wheat from the chaff which was inedible and was usually burned.
It seems that almost every religious group has their own special list which shows them "what the Bible really says." And folks like me who don't belong to those religious groups are walking around in darkness because we don't know "what the Bible really says." Altho I read both Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Deafsilence]

@HSong
I'll tell you what amigo when you time travel back to when the Bible was being written and tell all those writers not to use any words or language inflections you don't like and somehow the Bible gets rewritten and none of the Greek words are in the subjunctive voice, everything in the NT is written in the present infinitive, then you can presume to give people Greek grammar lessons.
When the Bible was written God did not give the writers some kind of Holy language to write in. They used the common language of the people they were writing to. When the writers used different tenses, voices, moods their audiences understood them as they were written NOT how you think they should have been written to make them say what you want them to say.
While you are thinking up other ways to make the Bible say what you want it to tell me what you think these verses mean.
Jeremiah 13:11
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
Jeremiah 13:13-14
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Romans 1:24
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

I'd love to go back and admonish transcribers to not apply uncertainty or doubt to God's desires and actions. I can only tell people today. There is nothing wrong with the use of modal verbs except when it comes to God. God has no uncertainty.

 

[Deafsilence]

Sorry I don't have the book of DeafSilence in any of my Bibles. And none of this is written in the Bibles I do have.

The Jews didn't know about Jesus either but they knew their laws and their books. But they missed the Spiritual meaning behind it all.

 

[Deafsilence]

@Der Alte Still waiting for those answers to this:

So tell me what does eternal mean? Does it mean something that:

1.) always exists - both in the past, present, and future.
2.) exists only in the present and future without end
3.) only exist perpetually in the future
4.) ____________ fill in the blank.

Or are you one of those people that are caught in a trap with these questions and must resort to a far broader set of definitions that must be applied in specific cases of the word (which means you fail to know the real meaning of the word).

 

[Der Alte]

@Der Alte Still waiting for those answers to this:
So tell me what does eternal mean? Does it mean something that:
1.) always exists - both in the past, present, and future.
2.) exists only in the present and future without end
3.) only exist perpetually in the future
4.) ____________ fill in the blank.
Or are you one of those people that are caught in a trap with these questions and must resort to a far broader set of definitions that must be applied in specific cases of the word (which means you fail to know the real meaning of the word).

I don't play word games. Read my posts I already posted the definition of Aionios from BDAG, this thread but I guess somebody was too busy trying to come up with "gotcha" questions to actually read my post.
I agree with Jesus' definition. "Aionios zoe" means "shall not perish" and He said it three times. You missed that too didn't you?

 

[GTW27]

As I told another "Bible Expert" in this thread. God did not send down some kind of Holy Bible languages for the writers of the Bible to use. If the writers wanted to be understood they had to write in the language that simple shepherds, farmers, stone masons etc. and their families understood. NOT some "holy hidden meaning" that only certain privileged people could understand.
When the Bible writer wrote "tares" that is what their intended audience understood. They knew that Tares was a type of plant similar to wheat. The same with "chaff" when the farmers harvested their grain, they had to thresh it to separate the wheat from the chaff which was inedible and was usually burned.
It seems that almost every religious group has their own special list which shows them "what the Bible really says." And folks like me who don't belong to those religious groups are walking around in darkness because we don't know "what the Bible really says." Altho I read both Hebrew and Greek.

I pray The Lord give you understanding in all things Der Alte.

 

[Der Alte]

The Jews didn't know about Jesus either but they knew their laws and their books. But they missed the Spiritual meaning behind it all.

If it ain't actually, literally written in the Bible then it ain't gospel. As I said in another post. Lots of questionable religious groups have their own list of "what the Bible really means." and folks like me that don't belong to that group, I guess we're just walking around in darkness unless we accept the interpretation of one of those groups. How do we choose, eenie, meenie, minie mo? Or maybe kahwee bahwee bo, that is Korean for rock, paper , scissors.

 

[Der Alte]

I pray The Lord give you understanding in all things Der Alte.[

It ain't what you got!

 

[Der Alte]

I'd love to go back and admonish transcribers to not apply uncertainty or doubt to God's desires and actions. I can only tell people today. There is nothing wrong with the use of modal verbs except when it comes to God. God has no uncertainty.

Nonsense! If the Bible is the word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit and I know it is. It is just fine the way it is.

 

[Deafsilence]

I don't play word games. Read my posts I already posted the definition of Aionios from BDAG, this thread but I guess somebody was too busy trying to come up with "gotcha" questions to actually read my post.
I agree with Jesus' definition. "Aionios zoe" means "shall not perish" and He said it three times. You missed that too didn't you?

I think you seen the problem you were into. But I'll spell it out for others.

You see if Alte sticks by the meaning that Aionios means Eternal then it poses big problems in the text because it some cases the Punishment is "eternal" or "everlasting" and so if he says that Eternal means always existing both in the past, current, and future then it would mean the punishment was always existing. But if he says it was limited in some manner then it would mean that Eternal Life is limited in some manner. This is why I like to bait ETers (Eternal Torment believers) into supporting their position with scholars and commentary etc... Because then they run away from being put in position to define what Eternal or Everlasting means in the different use cases.