Creation or Evolution? How do we know which is true?

[juvenissun]

In other words, even if it worked, it wouldn't be ex nihilo. As you learned, God didn't create life ex nihilo,

If so, according to you, how did God make a clay dog into an alive dog? The Bible does not say that God breaths on clay animals.

Yes, God can simply SAY something and it is done. If that is not a creation ex nihilo, then what it is?

 

[The Barbarian]

If so, according to you, how did God make a clay dog into an alive dog?

He says that animals were brought forth by the Earth. So not created ex nihilo.

The Bible does not say that God breaths on clay animals.

The Bible says that the earth brought forth animals. Ex nihilo creation is creation from nothing.

Yes, God can simply SAY something and it is done. If that is not a creation ex nihilo, then what it is?

See above. Creation using previously-created matter is by definition, not ex nihilo.

 

[juvenissun]

He says that animals were brought forth by the Earth. So not created ex nihilo.



The Bible says that the earth brought forth animals. Ex nihilo creation is creation from nothing.



See above. Creation using previously-created matter is by definition, not ex nihilo.

You are avoiding the real question.

 

[The Barbarian]

You are avoiding the real question.

Making clay animals was your diversion. As you now realize, the "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism is directly contradicted by God's word in Genesis.

 

[hiwaystar]

The so-called ''evidence'' for evolution are all man-made fairy tales. On the other hand, we creationists have God's true words as evidence.

Read the Bible. That's how we know creation is true. If you think evolution is believable in any conceivable way, I feel sorry for you.

 

[juvenissun]

Making clay animals was your diversion. As you now realize, the "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism is directly contradicted by God's word in Genesis.

There are two view points, you only address one. That is not a good understanding.

 

[Archivist]

The so-called ''evidence'' for evolution are all man-made fairy tales. On the other hand, we creationists have God's true words as evidence.

Read the Bible. That's how we know creation is true. If you think evolution is believable in any conceivable way, I feel sorry for you.

Hardly. Evolution occurred and continues to occur. Guess you feel sorry for me.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are two view points,

Only one of them is Biblical. That's the one that rules out creation of life ex nihilo. The other is your man-made YE doctrine of "life ex nihilo." For obvious reasons, most Christians don't accept the YE doctrine.

 

[The Barbarian]

The so-called ''evidence'' for evolution are all man-made fairy tales.

It's directly observed to happen. No point in denying the fact.

On the other hand, we creationists have God's true words as evidence.

As you see, God's word is consistent with evolution, but not with the YE doctrine of "life ex nihilo." Read the Bible. That's how we know the YE creationis revision of the Bible is false.

If you think evolution is believable in any conceivable way,

It's directly observed. Can't get any more certain than that.

 

[juvenissun]

Only one of them is Biblical. That's the one that rules out creation of life ex nihilo. The other is your man-made YE doctrine of "life ex nihilo." For obvious reasons, most Christians don't accept the YE doctrine.

The other one is a necessary and logic question. You can NOT thrown it away.

It is not an isolated question. It is, in fact, a critical one which gives the question of where comes your (old) spirit before your are given the new one.

 

[The Barbarian]

It is not an isolated question. It is, in fact, a critical one which gives the question of where comes your (old) spirit before your are given the new one.

I think your confusion would be eased if you just let God decide for you. Set aside pride and your man-made doctrine of YE creationism, and let God be God.

 

[juvenissun]

I think your confusion would be eased if you just let God decide for you. Set aside pride and your man-made doctrine of YE creationism, and let God be God.

Useless advice.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian suggests:
I think your confusion would be eased if you just let God decide for you. Set aside pride and your man-made doctrine of YE creationism, and let God be God.

Useless advice.

Depends on whether or not you are willing to trust God.

 

[NobleMouse]

Truth is a statement that corresponds with reality. Its source is, therefore, the person who makes the corresponding statement.

I would partially agree. God's word is what created "reality" and it is His word that expounds on the reality of the past/present/future. Truth is not; however, found in a person [by default] because people apply their developed thought patterns (rational or not), assumptions (reasonable/logical or not), and relate what they see to their experiences (relevant or not) in drawing a conclusion. This can result in incorrect beliefs of what is "true". In God is there only truth and since His word comes from Him (every word is breathed out by God); therefore if we believe God is true and His word is from Him, then His word is also true. What we accept from His word as truth is up to us, but regardless of what we believe to the contrary and the reasons by which we justify, His word still remains true.

 

[trophy33]

Truth is not; however, found in a person [by default] because people apply their developed thought patterns (rational or not), assumptions (reasonable/logical or not), and relate what they see to their experiences (relevant or not) in drawing a conclusion...

...therefore if we believe God is true and His word is from Him, then His word is also true. What we accept from His word as truth is up to us, but regardless of what we believe to the contrary and the reasons by which we justify, His word still remains true.

The problem is, that "His word" is given to us by various people in various languages and thought systems and with references that are foreign to us. Your developed American thought patterns are different from theirs and therefore it is practically certain you got many things in the Bible wrong. As I or as anybody else got. Therefore we should welcome tools and other ways of knowing truth, as is for example science.

 

[NobleMouse]

The problem is, that "His word" is given to us by various people in various languages and thought systems and with references that are foreign to us. Your developed American thought patterns are different from theirs and therefore it is practically certain you got many things in the Bible wrong. As I or as anybody else got. Therefore we should welcome tools and other ways of knowing truth, as is for example science.

It is not a problem - God's word is His word and it was penned by men through the Holy Spirit. Worth pointing out is that these are WORDS... not fossils, not rocks. What is unique about words is they are intended to communicate a message (it is their sole purpose) - they come from a sender with the intent of providing a message to a receiver. Fossils and rocks don't do any of that - one has to infer a lot, fill gaps, make assumptions, apply abstract concepts, etc... to try to piece together a narrative about what MIGHT have happened.

The assertion that God cannot effectively communicate the truth by His word through the Holy Spirit, but that somehow fallen sinful men can infer the "real" truth by inferences and unfalsifiable claims about rocks and fossils is nothing shy of ridiculous and fails on almost every level of theological doctrine possible.

Holding science above scripture as the authority of truth, especially for claims that science cannot prove is idolatry.

 

[trophy33]

The assertion that God cannot effectively communicate the truth by His word through the Holy Spirit...

He can. When you give up your American mindset of the 21st century while reading 3,000 years old Hebrew account of creation. Its all just about your willingness to accomodate to the Bible and to other sources of truth.

 

[NobleMouse]

He can. When you give up your American mindset of the 21st century while reading 3,000 years old Hebrew account of creation. Its all just about your willingness to accomodate to the Bible and to other sources of truth.

In my response to you in the thread How do YEC's explain the dinosaurs? I address this nonsense. God does not change His story and His word is final - I believe we've already been through this. Sorry, but the Hebrew culture of 3,000 years ago viewed the events and people of Genesis as factual, historical, real, as did Jesus and many of the OT & NT authors. The heresy you wish to believe in will not fly here.

 

[trophy33]

In my response to you in the thread How do YEC's explain the dinosaurs? I address this nonsense. God does not change His story and His word is final - I believe we've already been through this. Sorry, but the Hebrew culture of 3,000 years ago viewed the events and people of Genesis as factual, historical, real, as did Jesus and many of the OT & NT authors. The heresy you wish to believe in will not fly here.

Genesis is real, but the YEC reading of Genesis is not.

 

[NobleMouse]

Genesis is real, but the YEC reading of Genesis is not.

Your highest authority is the stories told by man and then you bend scripture to fit that story.

You're free to believe what you want about God's word, it's your God-given freedom to do so... or maybe it isn't, maybe your free will somehow evolved from an amoeba as well...