Creation or Evolution? How do we know which is true?

[Archivist]

The strong delusion was sent to them.

And exactly what is this strong delusion?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And exactly what is this strong delusion?

I think it's just a general delusion, which of course includes the ToE.

 

[mindlight]

Both sides have provided evidence(s) to support their claims. If our lives depend on the truth, then how do we know which is true? What questions should people ask to help find out the truth for themselves?

We are finite, mortal and imperfect and so the idea that we are the final arbiters of what is true is a questionable assumption to start with.

To the extent that we can filter and test truth claims though two things help me.

1) Science only takes us so far when discussing origins. Facts are things that we can verify and for which we have an audit trail but this is not the case with the models used to frame evolutionary, abiogenetic and Big Bang theories. Our distance in time, the lack of repeatable experiments we can perform to test conclusions means that we are not discussing evidence when we talk about origins. We are talking about whether we believe this explanatory model is more credible than that one. An honest scientific conclusion is therefore we do not know or even cannot know on the basis of the scientific method.

2) The bible works in so many other areas of life, the historical argument is one that Christians can win and the comparative religious argument is already accepted as won by the largest % of the worlds population. So trusting it that extra mile for the things it says about creation is not such an incredible leap

In essence science cannot say and the bible seems like the most trustworthy source of information.

 

[mark kennedy]

Both sides have provided evidence(s) to support their claims. If our lives depend on the truth, then how do we know which is true? What questions should people ask to help find out the truth for themselves?

Bear in mind the Scriptures themselves are evidence, a living witness spanning antiquity. Then you want to consider how to sort through the fossils and what the life sciences contrivute to our understanding. With this subject matter your going to have to do some reading and sort through some diffickt issues, take your time and enjoy the process, it's actually pretty deep when you get into it.

 

[Archivist]

I think it's just a general delusion, which of course includes the ToE.

I will not say that our scientists are suffering from a “general delusion.” I do not get my science from a religious text. You are, of course, entitled to your own views.

The OP asked for questions to ask regarding creation or evolution, and I already provided him with one (is interpretation of Genesis a salvation issue?). Therefore I will drop this discussion here. If you wish to discuss this issue further feel free to PM me.

 

[juvenissun]

Depends. Does God intervene your computer to work?

God pre-established nature to work according to His plan. He can sometimes work miraculously, but He is most of time working through the laws He made.

You still did not postulate any real problem, just questions.

My question IS one of the most serious problem in your evolution scheme. It defeats the scientific model of evolution, and it also defeats the creation plan of God. We simply can not make such a "convenient" theology.

 

[trophy33]

My question IS one of the most serious problem in your evolution scheme. It defeats the scientific model of evolution, and it also defeats the creation plan of God. We simply can not make such a "convenient" theology.

I do not think so

 

[juvenissun]

And this has absolutely nothing to do with creation vs evolution.

Of course it does. People believe in evolution is same as people build their worldly works on sand. It would cost you in the Heaven.

 

[Archivist]

Of course it does. People believe in evolution is same as people build their worldly works on sand. It would cost you in the Heaven.

And you are entitled to your opinion, but that is all you have provided is opinion. I get my science from scientists, not from a religious book.

 

[juvenissun]

And you are entitled to your opinion, but that is all you have provided is opinion. I get my science from scientists, not from a religious book.

If you stopped there, then it is pretty bad.
After that, you should get MORE sciences from God.

 

[Archivist]

If you stopped there, then it is pretty bad.
After that, you should get MORE sciences from God.

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. This discussion is off topic in this thread so I will stop here. PM me if you want to discuss further or feel free to start a new thread.

 

[Job 33:6]

To revisit your post, the OP included "us", "we", and "people". How did you determine he was talking only about himself?

And, I was responding to your post regarding "Adams's rib", not the OP.

Hes asking what questions we as people should ask. He's not asking us to provide an answer to those questions. Hence the " He did not ask us to answer." In my last post.

Otherwise, thanks for sharing your opinion but I'm afraid I didn't ask for it .

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Hes asking what questions we as people should ask. He's not asking us to provide an answer to those questions. Hence the " He did not ask us to answer." In my last post.

Otherwise, thanks for sharing your opinion but I'm afraid I didn't ask for it .

I'm all about sharing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And you are entitled to your opinion, but that is all you have provided is opinion. I get my science from scientists, not from a religious book.

The Bible says we were created.
Gray's Anatomy confirms it.

 

[trophy33]

The Bible says we were created.
Gray's Anatomy confirms it.

I suppose nobody here says we were not created in the meaning God was not involved and that we do not have design.

What we are talking about is "how" and "when".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I suppose nobody here says we were not created in the meaning God was not involved and that we do not have design.

What we are talking about is "how" and "when".

Most who believe evolution will argue that there is no 'design' in the natural world, including the human body.

 

[trophy33]

Most who believe evolution will argue that there is no 'design' in the natural world, including the human body.

They will say that organisms are adapted to their environment which is the same as design.

Good patterns survived and multiplied. Theists will say it was planned by God, non-theists will say it was not planned by any deity.

 

[The Barbarian]

Since engineers have discovered that evolution is more efficient than design for many complex problems (and have solved many of those problems by using evolutionary processes) anyone accusing God of mere "design" is underestimating His wisdom and power.

 

[trophy33]

Adaptability is more than a freezed design.

For example, how can we say if human hairs on the back or on legs is a good or a poor design? Not a good and useful thing for us today, but useful in ice age.

All organisms change in time.

 

[NobleMouse]

Both sides have provided evidence(s) to support their claims. If our lives depend on the truth, then how do we know which is true? What questions should people ask to help find out the truth for themselves?

What is the source of truth, where does truth come from?