Could an atheist go to heaven?

[KWCrazy]

Not the point. Not what I said. Did Jesus in specific mention "believer's baptism?" Yes or no?

Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

You are making the point that the word "Purgatory" is not in the Bible. Therefore, to follow this line of argument, you are saying that only the words that are in the Bible or are spoken by Jesus can be true.

Revelations 22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

Galatians 1:
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Jesus was baptized. Which means what? That could just as easily mean that we should baptize our infant children. It is an argument without a point.

Matthew 3:
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
The Baptism of Christ had meaning. Bathing your baby does not. Babies do not have free will. They cannot accept the death and resurrection of Christ.

Since we know that Jesus was a law-keeping Jew, our holy Lord, then we know that He did and kept all the Jewish practices, one of which was to pray for the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:
9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

There is no indication that Jesus ever prayed for the dead. When He prayed, He prayed directly to the Father.

 

[KWCrazy]

Did He use the specific words "Make a decision for Jesus?"

Did anyone claim He did?

The words "make a decision for Jesus are nowhere in the Bible."

The words, "Let's all take the bus to church aren't in the Bible either. Therefore, busses are unholy, right?
It's not the things which are not in the Bible that have you in a tizzy, but rather those things which ARE.

 

[jeager016]

Is that addressed to li'l ole me???

Anyone that takes "self" too seriously.
We are, after all, in this world together.
I sometimes wonder if God is sitting some where looking at
all of us saying, "How'd they screw this all up!?"
40,000 denominations of Christians all reading the same
book.
I've read 33,000 denominations ALL claiming to be "true"
Christians.
What ever.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Atheists have a soul but not holy spirit which is required. Animals have a soul but not holy spirit. Atheists like we were before being born again are like the animals with flesh and blood which includes a soul but nothing more.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". Some people will find, when they come to eternity, that their pursuit of truth is counted as a pursuit of Jesus. Their pursuit in favor of life is counted as a pursuit of Jesus. Others will find that their mouthing the word "Jesus" while acting against life and truth will do them no good whatsoever in eternity.

 

[jeager016]

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life". Some people will find, when they come to eternity, that their pursuit of truth is counted as a pursuit of Jesus. Their pursuit in favor of life is counted as a pursuit of Jesus. Others will find that their mouthing the word "Jesus" while acting against life and truth will do them no good whatsoever in eternity.

I wonder what will happen to a certain "preacher" a member
of a minority cult, that molested my sister when she was 12
AT A BIBLE STUDY! in the guys house.
She's now 68 and won't set foot in a church and refuses even
to acknowledge "god" or even discuss anything remotely
religious.
Sadly she still drinks alcohol heavily.
Wonder why?
I was raised by a mother who was.................ah, ...............NUTS
in a way.
She didn't believe in Christian holidays, and refused to celebrate
with the rest of the family. Unless she had a few drinks of course
then she denied celebrating it to the rest of the congregation.
I grew up with "if you don't to the __________ for services
God will send birds from heaven to peck your eyes out."
I HATED that "god".
Still I have studied Christian history for some 25 years and
am convinced there is a God and Jesus is my Savior and example.
I'm also a recovered alcoholic who attends at least 5 A.A. meetings
a week.
After meetings we all join hands and pray giving thanks to a
God of our understanding for sobriety.

 

[jeager016]

You know who seemed to think non-Christians would go to Heaven? C S Lewis (in the book: The Last Battle):

tulc(is just sayn')

I've read a lot of C S Lewis.
Great author but he's not in the Bible nor is he a Saint or
Apostle, or...............anything but a good author.

 

[tulc]

I've read a lot of C S Lewis.
Great author but he's not in the Bible nor is he a Saint or
Apostle, or...............anything but a good author.

Still, he does make a good point. I find most authors tend to have things I agree with and things I disagree with, this particular section of his writings made me start thinking about what he said. Is it the Bible? No. But then the modern Church tends to assume a lot of things they believe are things "The Church has ALWAYS believed this!" when it's not true. Plus? If you've been a Christian for a long time you already know a lot of things "Backed by Scripture" are just as likely to be things other good Christians will tell you "That's not what the Bible really teaches!".
tulc(tries and do some good and give the "HOLY SLAPPERS OF OTHERS WITH HOLY SCRIPTURE!!" a wide berth)

 

[Light of the East]

Did anyone claim He did?

The words, "Let's all take the bus to church aren't in the Bible either. Therefore, busses are unholy, right?
It's not the things which are not in the Bible that have you in a tizzy, but rather those things which ARE.

Nothing has me in a tizzy from the Bible. It's people who don't know the Bible and refuse to listen that get under my saddle.

 

[Hieronymus]

John 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I wonder what will happen to a certain "preacher" a member
of a minority cult, that molested my sister when she was 12
AT A BIBLE STUDY! in the guys house.
She's now 68 and won't set foot in a church and refuses even
to acknowledge "god" or even discuss anything remotely
religious.
Sadly she still drinks alcohol heavily.
Wonder why?
I was raised by a mother who was.................ah, ...............NUTS
in a way.
She didn't believe in Christian holidays, and refused to celebrate
with the rest of the family. Unless she had a few drinks of course
then she denied celebrating it to the rest of the congregation.
I grew up with "if you don't to the __________ for services
God will send birds from heaven to peck your eyes out."
I HATED that "god".
Still I have studied Christian history for some 25 years and
am convinced there is a God and Jesus is my Savior and example.
I'm also a recovered alcoholic who attends at least 5 A.A. meetings
a week.
After meetings we all join hands and pray giving thanks to a
God of our understanding for sobriety.

Than you fully understand how merely saying the words about Jesus that appear to conform to good theology are not sufficient to get right with God.

 

[jeager016]

Than you fully understand how merely saying the words about Jesus that appear to conform to good theology are not sufficient to get right with God.

Yup.
Truth is truth.
There was the religious fellow and pillar of his community that
I arrested for grand theft by embezzling money from a company.
He hung himself in our jail.
The family sued us because he could hang himself in jail.
The family settled for a bit of money out of court.
Did the family attempt to return the money the man embezzled?
Nope.
Sin/crime happens in ALL religions/denominations.

 

[jeager016]

If there is a literal Hell there must be a special room for hypocrites.

 

[rjs330]

If there is a literal Hell there must be a special room for hypocrites.

Jesus had some special,words for hypocrites. They were not kind.

 

[Light of the East]

Than you fully understand how merely saying the words about Jesus that appear to conform to good theology are not sufficient to get right with God.

This is well said. I wonder, however, in context of this truth, what is sufficient to get "right with God?"

 

[jeager016]

If there is a Hell there is a special room for child abusers
especially "Chester the Molester".
I'd be in favor of firing squad but that is too quick and it ends the
molesters suffering.
Life in prison is appropriate.
Child abusers have a bad time in prison.
Even the most nasty criminal offenders have kids and treat
child abusers very badly.
Even prison guards see nothing done to a child abuser.
Even worse is a molester that preys on family members.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

This is well said. I wonder, however, in context of this truth, what is sufficient to get "right with God?"

Repent and trust.

 

[Wolfe]

If I may interject.
Someone told me once, that salvation is a gift, it's free for the taking, for anyone, but if you don't you go to Hell.
Some people don't even believe in hell, and some believe hell isn't a place of fire, and literal physical torture, but the torture is that you're spiritually dead, completely disconnected from God. Everything that's bad with this world, will be what hell is. But there'd be no God, meaning no good. And, sadly, this wouldn't be hell for some people...

Not saying I believe it, or disbelieve it. Just some interesting debate points, I'd like to see some people debate.
I will say this, physical pain, pales in the comparison to spiritual pain.

 

[Light of the East]

Repent and trust.

So you are saying, if I understand you correct, that once a person has repented and trusted, he will never sin again?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

So you are saying, if I understand you correct, that once a person has repented and trusted, he will never sin again?

Oh, we all know how that works out. No, but the one who truly repents regrets the sin and tries to do better, and trusts God for help and understanding.

Not trying to do better = not really repenting.

 

[Light of the East]

Oh, we all know how that works out. No, but the one who truly repents regrets the sin and tries to do better, and trusts God for help and understanding.

Not trying to do better = not really repenting.

That is so not an answer. It seems that you are saying that a person cannot sin after a "true conversion" or that someone who struggles with what is termed a "besetting sin" is not truly converted.