Could an atheist go to heaven?

[Light of the East]

They were righteous because of their faith in God, not because of anything in and of themselves.

You have not proven how I took that out of context.

In Psalm 14, the Psalmist refers to the children of man (i.e. every single person that has ever existed). No one is a child of God by default. Jesus said you must be born again, adopted by God through the blood of Jesus Christ.

However they were righteous, the point is that they were righteous, not "totally depraved" or some other Protestant fallacy which says that there is no such thing as a righteous man. The quote from Romans 3 is not stated in context. It might be better to say that without Christ, one is not righteous.

 

[rjs330]

However they were righteous, the point is that they were righteous, not "totally depraved" or some other Protestant fallacy which says that there is no such thing as a righteous man. The quote from Romans 3 is not stated in context. It might be better to say that without Christ, one is not righteous.

You are correct in that it is Christ who makes us righteous.

There is none righteous no not one.

But in Christ we are made righteous.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Sorry, but there's no such thing as extra-Biblical revelation and if whatever is talking to you is contradicting the Bible like you just demonstrated, that's not of God.

You aren't really in a position to say what God will not or cannot do.
When God cannot be contained in structures built by mans hands as the Bible tells us, do you really think God conforms to the 66 books man put together and called the canon?

Even the scriptures tell us Gods holy spirit speaks to those in whom that spirit dwells.

 

[rjs330]

You aren't really in a position to say what God will not or cannot do.
When God cannot be contained in structures built by mans hands as the Bible tells us, do you really think God conforms to the 66 books man put together and called the canon?

Even the scriptures tell us Gods holy spirit speaks to those in whom that spirit dwells.

You,are correct that God does,speak to us by his spirit. The bible speaks often of the spirit speaking to us. That being said how do we know if we are really hearing from the spirit or not?

As long as it does not contradict the word,of God we are ok. The Holy Spirit would never tell us or lead us contrary to Gods word. God does not contradict himself.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

You,are correct that God does,speak to us by his spirit. The bible speaks often of the spirit speaking to us. That being said how do we know if we are really hearing from the spirit or not?

As long as it does not contradict the word,of God we are ok. The Holy Spirit would never tell us or lead us contrary to Gods word. God does not contradict himself.

John 1:1

Again, the argument confines God to a book essentially.
That was the mistake the Jews made when meeting Jesus and something that Jesus admonished them for also remember. He told them they had not the Word abiding in them. (John 5)
Isaiah 58:11, John 16:13

 

[rjs330]

John 1:1

Again, the argument confines God to a book essentially.
That was the mistake the Jews made when meeting Jesus and something that Jesus admonished them for also remember. He told them they had not the Word abiding in them. (John 5)
Isaiah 58:11, John 16:13

My friend God himself claims the book. We are not confining God to a book. The book is Gods word to us. Revealed to us. And God warns us not to stray from,the words he has spoken in his word. In I Corinthians Paul says the deep mysteries of God have been revealed to us through the apostles. So what they say to us is what God wants us to know. Hebrews states that of old God spoke to us by the prophets and now he speaks to us by his son. Paul warns us as does other apostles that anyone who teaches a different gospel is accursed. They warn us against false doctrine and false teachers who,teach other things than they have taught. There is another passage that tells us to test the spirits.

So, since the word is sound doctrine spoken by God through Jesus and the apostles and prophets we are not allowed to teach things that do not conform to these teachings. Its not confining God it's confining us to teach only that which he has revealed to us by His word.

 

[Light of the East]

You are correct in that it is Christ who makes us righteous.

There is none righteous no not one.

But in Christ we are made righteous.

So how were the people in the Old Covenant righteous before Christ came and did His saving work on the Cross?

 

[Basil the Great]

Remember that Jesus said, "I have other sheep who are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock and one shephard." Now we may think that we know what he meant but that statement, but we cannot be certain. Most of us probably believe that he was talking about Gentiles who would later become Christians. However, he also could have been referring to pagans/atheists who never end up hearing the Gospel message and yet live a life of love and compassion in accordance with their consciences. He could also have been referring to atheists who do hear the Gospel message and at one time believed, but lost their faith as a result of terrible tragedies that hit either them and/or their loved ones and yet they continue to live a life of love and mercy to others. The bottom line is that we do not know for certain exactly what Jesus meant when he said he had other sheep who were not of this fold.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

My friend God himself claims the book. We are not confining God to a book. The book is Gods word to us. Revealed to us. And God warns us not to stray from,the words he has spoken in his word. In I Corinthians Paul says the deep mysteries of God have been revealed to us through the apostles. So what they say to us is what God wants us to know. Hebrews states that of old God spoke to us by the prophets and now he speaks to us by his son. Paul warns us as does other apostles that anyone who teaches a different gospel is accursed. They warn us against false doctrine and false teachers who,teach other things than they have taught. There is another passage that tells us to test the spirits.

So, since the word is sound doctrine spoken by God through Jesus and the apostles and prophets we are not allowed to teach things that do not conform to these teachings. Its not confining God it's confining us to teach only that which he has revealed to us by His word.

You don't believe God speaks to people in any way other than what must comport with all that is in scripture?

 

[JoeP222w]

However they were righteous, the point is that they were righteous, not "totally depraved" or some other Protestant fallacy which says that there is no such thing as a righteous man. The quote from Romans 3 is not stated in context. It might be better to say that without Christ, one is not righteous.

Before God saves a person, one is indeed not righteous, nor is faith created in a dead person, in and of themselves. Repentance and faith is completely a gift from God. He is the one that gets all the glory and He does not share His glory with anyone. If you believe that you create faith in yourself, by yourself, solely from yourself, then you are robbing God of His glory.

If you deny total depravity, you disagree with scripture, not merely Protestantism.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Remember that Jesus said, "I have other sheep who are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock and one shephard." Now we may think that we know what he meant but that statement, but we cannot be certain. Most of us probably believe that he was talking about Gentiles who would later become Christians. However, he also could have been referring to pagans/atheists who never end up hearing the Gospel message and yet live a life of love and compassion in accordance with their consciences. He could also have been referring to atheists who do hear the Gospel message and at one time believed, but lost their faith as a result of terrible tragedies that hit either them and/or their loved ones and yet they continue to live a life of love and mercy to others. The bottom line is that we do not know for certain exactly what Jesus meant when he said he had other sheep who were not of this fold.

Most theologians agree, this is a reference to the gentile since he was speaking to the Jews at the time.

Commentary notes (example)
(16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold.—The words recall to the mind a question which the Jews had asked at this very feast, “Will He go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?” (John 7:35). They asked it in the bitterness of scorn. He asserts that among the Gentiles—who are not of the Jewish fold—He already possesses sheep; just as He says to Paul concerning Corinth, “I have much people in this city” (Acts 18:10). The Old Testament prophets had foretold this coming of the Gentiles, as e.g. Isaiah 52:13 et seq.; Isaiah 53:10 et seq.; Micah 4:2; and it is present to our Lord’s mind here as the result of His laying down His life for the sheep. (Comp. Notes on John 11:52; John 12:32.)

Now of course at the time gentiles could be both pagan and atheist. But once they believe in Jesus they are now in his fold, thus this is not asserting by any means that an atheist who rejects Jesus and the gospel are in any way part of his fold by default. Frankly I find this absurd to even debate whether an atheist who denies Jesus is saved and will go to heaven, the very definition of atheist is denying the existence of God and the spiritual root is demonic deception.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

So how were the people in the Old Covenant righteous before Christ came and did His saving work on the Cross?

The question is not that GOD called people righteous or their actions righteous in the OT at a specific time. The question is how did people in the OT get saved? Can you answer that question for me? It may help.

 

[rjs330]

You don't believe God speaks to people in any way other than what must comport with all that is in scripture?

I did not say that. What I am saying is that we do what God says to which is to test the spirits. Of it does not contradict the scripture we are good to,go.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

I did not say that. What I am saying is that we do what God says to which is to test the spirits. Of it does not contradict the scripture we are good to,go.

The holy spirit then comports with scripture. OK, lets look at that.
Jesus is whom the Christian follows. Jesus emphasized the importance, the validity, of the Law of God in more than one scripture during his ministry. Reiterating Gods moral law often referred to as the ten commands from Moses.

Do you agree?

 

[Light of the East]

The question is not that GOD called people righteous or their actions righteous in the OT at a specific time. The question is how did people in the OT get saved? Can you answer that question for me? It may help.

As I understand it, they were circumcised into the nation of Israel and became people of the covenant by their circumcision.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

As I understand it, they were circumcised into the nation of Israel and became people of the covenant by their circumcision.

So you are saying that they were saved by circumcision?

 

[rjs330]

The holy spirit then comports with scripture. OK, lets look at that.
Jesus is whom the Christian follows. Jesus emphasized the importance, the validity, of the Law of God in more than one scripture during his ministry. Reiterating Gods moral law often referred to as the ten commands from Moses.

Do you agree?

Rather than trying to "get me" just tell me where you,are headed. I know you have a point you are trying to make. Just make it. If you disagree tell me what you disagree with and why. I think we would have a better conversation.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Rather than trying to "get me" just tell me where you,are headed. I know you have a point you are trying to make. Just make it. If you disagree tell me what you disagree with and why. I think we would have a better conversation.

Get you?
That's OK. I tire of the level of paranoia, projection, misquotation, and passive aggressive personality that's too often displayed by those who call themselves people of Christ.
Believe as you wish. It matters little to me.

 

[Light of the East]

So you are saying that they were saved by circumcision?

Precisely, just as baptism saves in the New Covenant. Baptism has replaced circumcision as the ritual of covenant making in the New Covenant. Salvation is being part of the covenant congregation.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Precisely, just as baptism saves in the New Covenant. Baptism has replaced circumcision as the ritual of covenant making in the New Covenant. Salvation is being part of the covenant congregation.

So if circumcision is the ritual of salvation in the OT then how does a female get saved?