Convert me :)

[Sundown]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online. At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

Go to www.createspace.com/6033177 and pick up a copy only $8.59, you can read this book in one day only 27 pages. After you read it, send me an email and I will make you one statement that will make you think about the existence of God. Why the book, a simple message and will be informative. I am not soliciting a book, and believe me createspace (part of Amazon) stays with most of the proceeds, like does Amazon. That is my challenge to you.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Like graceandpeace said, outside of a few core beliefs, Christianity is actually a very diverse religion where most topics have a variety of opinions and views. After all, if we all agreed on everything, we wouldn't have all of the denominations we have today. These are my views as a Reformed Catholic (Episcopalian) and progressive Christian.

For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion?

There are many different views within Christianity surrounding the nature of Hell. Firstly, many Christians do believe there that people who have never been exposed to the gospel do have the opportunity to become saved, and usually base their belief on Romans 2, and I have heard this view even from Catholics. Secondly, many Christians also disagree on where Hell is and what it is really about. For the Eastern Orthodox (personally, the view that I agree with), Hell is spiritual and interntal torture from the experience of being the presence and love of God while rejecting his love. Some Christians believe that Hell is not eternal, but will result in the ultimate destruction of the person's soul, some believe Hell will only be temporary, and some hold to the traditional understanding.

Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists?

You'll find many different answers for this from man's free will to the Fall corrupted everything. Personally, I think the answer lies somewhat in the middle, and that at the end of the day God is love and not a all-controlling puppeteer. There was a viral video a few years about how evil is the absence of God just like how darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat, it was kind of cheesy, but I liked it's point.

And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

God loves everyone, including gay people. I think the issue with many liberals like myself is that they don't really understand what "homophobia" actually really means. It's entirely possible to think that homosexual acts are sinful without hating gay people, on the other hand, the hatred and rejection of gay people (even if they are celibate) is still a real problem within the church. The debate will likely continue for a while about whether or not they can be affirmed, and then separate debate about their relationships, etc. There are a number of churches (mine included) that do accept gay people, while others are still having the discussion, and others have made up their minds.

Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

Many Christians, myself include, reject this caricature of God.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

This is called moral luck, and I am honest about the fact that I likely would not be a Christian if I had been born in Saudi Arabia, India, etc. I also don't believe it's our job to convince others we're correct, I believe it's our job to love others and work on bringing the Kingdom of God to Earth.

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion? I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

I don't think there is "proof" of God. I will share though why I believe...

- I believe in a god all I've learned about the universe and nature, everything from astrophysics to microbiology, I don't see how it could have happened, and everything exists and work the way it does without a Creator.
- I believe in God partially because I grew up in a Christian home, and partially because of what follows...
- I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I believe that partially from his birth, life, and teachings, but mostly due to his resurrection.
- I believe Jesus resurrected from the dead because I think the literal, physical resurrection of Christ is the best explanation for the origin of Christianity.
There's ultimately three choices when it comes to Jesus,
1) He didn't exist - This doesn't fit into the origins of Christianity. I don't know why anyone would make up a story that gave them no immediate personal gain, wealth, and would ultimately end in their death. There are Roman records consistent with Biblical accounts of persecution, and the vast majority of scholars agree that he did exist.
2) He was just a man - If Jesus was just a man and didn't rise from the dead, 1. Where is his body? 2. If his body was stolen, someone at some point would have cracked and said "We hid it!", or if it was a conspiracy, and only two or three people knew, it's again the worst conspiracy ever as it gives them no personal gain whatsoever.
3) He was who he says he was. - As irrational as the idea of someone rising from the dead is (which is why it's a big deal that Jesus did), the essential either comes down believing sociopathic lunatics or believing that Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God.
- Therefore, since Jesus is the Son of God, he would best know how people should live their life. He wrote our biology, psychology, so he would know how to live the best way possible for everyone.
- Thus, I believe Christianity is the best way to live.

 

[FireDragon76]

Given your concerns, you should be exploring a more liberal Catholic or mainline Protestant approach to Christian faith. It might help you find answers.

I also agree with CWB, if you are diligently seeking, you should do so not only online in a forum like this, but also by visiting places of worship and hearing the preaching of the Gospel. I'd recommend going back to a Catholic church in your area and approaching a priest with your questions. If you don't like the answers, there are other denominations to visit, such as Episcopalians, ELCA Lutherans, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, or Presbyterians. These are usually considered mainline Protestant churches, and I just recommend them owing to the nature of the problems you had with the religion you grew up with.

In regards to the "genocides" in the Old Testament, I'd say those aren't central features of how we know about God. There's also not a lot of archeological evidence for those accounts- most historians now days think that Israel came about through social revolution in Canaan combined with a wave of migration of slaves from Egypt (since ancient Jews seem to be genetically indistinguishable from Canaanites), and not a homogeneous movement of one group. It's certainly not an important emphasis in mainline Protestant or Catholic churches. What's important is Jesus showing us who God is. Martin Luther said if it's a question of Sciptures vs. Jesus, then Jesus has to come first.

 

[victorinus]

In your post above you said...."there are many other passages in the bible that confirms this"...
Now, you did use the word MANY. Would you be able to show me 4 of them? I only ask because if the bible says "no one will spend their afterlife in eternal suffering" that's pretty important.

just search the bible for
eternal life

 

[Razare]

In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious.

This is because you weren't reborn in Christ. In your heart is this void, that loves to embrace nothingness. Those who are not born again will have this.

I much preferred nothingness as an atheist. When I first converted to Christian, I even then, sometimes believed nothingness would be preferable to all this business I was going through, where heaven and hell was at stake.

Carnally, it does seem preferable. Yet does the lust of your body and heart know truth?

What is true and what is false, stands apart from our desire of what we wish were true, and what we wish were not true. We can wish for much, but in the end, we should focus on what is true, unless we have abandoned truth intentionally to pursue delusions.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

I went to a Lutheran pre-school, but abandoned God at about 8 to 10. I became an evolutionary atheist in High School. This prevailed in my thinking until my early twenties. Atheism missed all the answers and was just as absurd as theism. I became an agnostic since I was honest. I became solipsistic because I was honest.

In honesty, I knew nothing with any certainy, and I was certain of this with a conviction that went beyond what is normal wishy-washy atheistic or agnostic thinking. I was certain I knew nothing to the point I realized this was truth.

Of myself I could know nothing. The senses? Why believe them? Reasoning? It concluded the frailty of all philosophy, and our inability to know, rather than our ability to know.

If I were to know anything at all, it was going to be by divine action, where truth which existed, could be given to me directly by the author of truth, whomever that was, since I had no specific theistic disposition. I believed this entity to give me truth. I now call this "faith" but back then I was just doing the only course of action left.

And I knew, whether this truth giver came through or not would be apparent, that if he were not there and sentient, he would not give me truth and I would remain forever in the dark. And that darkness would be apparent to me, so I would know there is no God. However, he did come through.

He gave me nuggets of knowledge from his store of knowledge. Objective truth, learned directly from God, planted into our hearts.

I learned slowly because I did not have any religious document. I learned from God and trusted him as my teacher.

It led me into dating a spiritual medium who would speak to dead people. She was a Christian of a perverted religious belief. She didn't understand Jesus at all, and focused more on the spirits and whatnot. After I stopped dating her, having seen spirits first hand, I then became a Hindu.

While I was a Hindu, I would meditate some. I would pray. I would try to become enlightened. After a couple years of this, I entered samadhi, which is a trance-like meditative state where you screw up your mind really bad, but they venerate it.

I failed. I came out of that "enlightenment" more unenlightened than I ever was. But I still had the seeds God put in my heart. I wanted to be with God forever, but I knew that even should I live a million lifetimes (Hindu reincarnation) it would be insufficient for me to attain unto the goodness and righteousness of God. That I could never be with God no matter what I did.

That's when I made Christ my lord. I had venerated him as my goal as a Hindu. Even the Hindu gurus I listened to put Christ on a pedestal above other gurus. Since he was on a pedestal and I believed he had rose from the dead, I had tried to become like him. But I failed and I knew there was nothing I could ever do to recover from the failure.

So I made him my lord. As a Hindu, I started this by making him my guru (teacher). Then as I learned from him, I realized he was God.

This is how I became a Christian. I learned that by making Christ my Lord, this unbridgeable gap between me and God which I had found out from first-hand experience existed... I learned this gap had been bridged by 1 man.

14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. - Hebrews 4:14-16

And by a High Priest, the whole nation of followers is accepted or rejected by God based upon the offering that High Priest makes. So we attain what we could never have attained.

 

[victorinus]

In your post above you said...."there are many other passages in the bible that confirms this"...
Now, you did use the word MANY. Would you be able to show me 4 of them? I only ask because if the bible says "no one will spend their afterlife in eternal suffering" that's pretty important.

I have a couple questions for you
-does God want anyone to suffer eternally?
-is God able to prevent anyone from suffering eternally?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Convert me

Okay. Do you want to become a Christian?

If yes, then awesome; since you were raised a Catholic I can assume you were already baptized, and so really all you'd need to do (depending on church) is go and talk to a member of the clergy and reintegrate yourself into the Christian community: confession, repentance, hearing the Gospel, receiving the Sacraments, etc.

If no, then there ends my attempt to "convert" you.

I don't believe in "converting" people. Though I'll take a larger look at your post to see how I might respond to the points it raises, I just wanted to address the whole "converting" issue first.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion?

In Roman Catholicism, specifically, there is an idea known as invincible ignorance; those who did not and could not know the truth of Christ are invincibly ignorant and therefore it won't be held against them at the Judgment. Most Christian traditions, while not necessarily having the idea of invincible ignorance, would likely point out two things:

1) God in His judgment is good and just, and so we cannot know who--if any--will be damned.

2) God, being unwilling that any should perish, desires the salvation of all, and so we can trust in His goodness, mercy, and judgment on these matters.

Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists?

I don't know that there's a particularly good answer to the problem of Theodicy. Christianity doesn't really attempt to explore the philosophical ramifications of Theodicy so much as profess faith in the God who, in Christ, shares and participates in our sufferings with us.

And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Homophobia, like other forms of hatred and prejudice, are sinful and demand repentance on our part. Not all Christians hate or are afraid of LGBTQ persons.

Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing

I wouldn't find that idea particularly appealing either.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist.

Quite probable. It's impossible to say.

What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Faith in the reality that Jesus rose from the dead.

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

As a Lutheran I don't believe faith is a function of the will either, at least not really. Faith is extra nos, from outside ourselves, granted to us as grace by the Holy Spirit through Word and Sacrament. Or as Luther puts it in his Large Catechism,

"For neither you nor I could ever know anything of Christ, or believe on Him, and obtain Him for our Lord, unless it were offered to us and granted to our hearts by the Holy Ghost through the preaching of the Gospel. The work is done and accomplished; for Christ has acquired and gained the treasure for us by His suffering, death, resurrection, etc. But if the work remained concealed so that no one knew of it, then it would be in vain and lost. That this treasure, therefore, might not lie buried, but be appropriated and enjoyed, God has caused the Word to go forth and be proclaimed, in which He gives the Holy Ghost to bring this treasure home and appropriate it to us. Therefore sanctifying is nothing else than bringing us to Christ to receive this good, to which we could not attain of ourselves."

I don't believe in "converting" people by providing the better or more rational argument. I do believe in the preaching of the Gospel, and letting God take it from there, and I do lament that frequently what is portrayed as preaching the Gospel today amounts more to the preaching of condemnation rather than of God's loving kindness and mercy. Frequently what is preached is a conflation of Law and Gospel, rather than the pure Gospel of God's grace.

And if the issues of Hell, homophobia, etc are a problem for you, well you're not alone--those are issues Christians wrestle with too. There is no monolithic view of hell in the Christian religion, nor does Christianity assert, point blank, that non-Christians all go to hell or some place of eternal suffering; further there is no monolithic view in Christianity concerning LGBTQ persons, and you will find both churches which are quite hostile to such people as well as welcoming and affirming churches (and do so without discarding Scripture or anything else of the Christian faith).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[-57]

I have a couple questions for you
-does God want anyone to suffer eternally?
-is God able to prevent anyone from suffering eternally?

I don't think God delights in sending anyone to hell. What I do know from the bible is that God is just...and this justice requires people to be sent to hell.

Can God prevent anyone from going to hell? Yes. They are of the elect.

 

[Hammster]

Last time:

ADMIN HAT ON


I just did a big clean up. This is a no debate area. And the only non-Christians who can post are the OP's. Also, you may only respond to the OP, not to the other responders.


ADMIN HAT OFF

just search the bible for
eternal life

I have a couple questions for you
-does God want anyone to suffer eternally?
-is God able to prevent anyone from suffering eternally?

I don't think God delights in sending anyone to hell. What I do know from the bible is that God is just...and this justice requires people to be sent to hell.

Can God prevent anyone from going to hell? Yes. They are of the elect.

 

[-57]

Last time:

Hammster....my apologies. I see we have drifted from the OP.

I think the problem occurs when we are following the "alerts" and lose track of what thread we are in.

 

[Hammster]

Hammster....my apologies. I see we have drifted from the OP.

I think the problem occurs when we are following the "alerts" and lose track of what thread we are in.

 

[fat wee robin]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online. At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

Well I was never an atheist as I would never been daft enough to say 'there is no God ',but I did spend a long time out in the cold and now I not only know there is a Creator God ,but He has allowed me to be comforted and healed by Him .
I have learned many things ,both from the bible and outside of too .

 

[civilwarbuff]

In case you all missed it. I really don't want to start issuing warnings.

Could you drop a similar warning here to try to bring it back OP?
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...stolic-succession-unimportant-to-you.7949554/
Thanks

 

[ScottA]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online. At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

You have raised a lot of good questions, and there are answers to them all.

But first, not to leave you waiting, allow me to explain: This life and this world, are not what they seem, in fact, it was all made up - "created." That is what He said. And if you do not want to go through it all only to hear "I told you so." then it would be good to give it all a bit more creative thinking on your own part.

Time, space, and matter, are a complete illusion. Even science will tell you that time is an illusion, space is a void, and matter is energy. No expense was spared. God is telling you the story of your life, as it fits into the story of his son, Jesus Christ. History, is His story. However...just so you know...His story - is finished (and therefore, so is yours/ours). The "creation" of the story, is like the creation of a movie - some have seen their part already and seen the end - but you have only seen the part you have seen up until this point. When the lights go out - it's over.

So, no, no one can "prove" the story line - nothing from nothing, is nothing. It's all a fabrication. However, built into the story is a key to the reality that exists outside this movie house - which is the spirit of God, sprinkled throughout. Gather enough of it - and you, like Pinocchio, can become a real boy.

But let me caution you. Within these walls, it is as if we all were born into a great big room that no one has ever seen or been outside of. So...if no one has ever been or seen outside - who does it make sense to believe? A scientist who has studied the fabricated contents of the room, a philosopher who is at peace with the room, the religious who "believe" what they would like to believe, but do not "know" for certain, a politician who rises above the crowd to lead? ... The answer is: No one...because someone who has never been or seen outside, could not possible tell you anything. So...the only way of knowing ANYTHING that you have come here to find answers for - is if the information comes - in to you - from the outside.

And there is an ancient written record of such occurrences.

 

[Meowzltov]

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Thank you for your honest post.

If you are happy and satisfied being an atheist, I don't think all the reasoning in the world, no matter how logical, will convince you there is a God, because you will be unmotivated to change.

As to the questions which bothered you, I will answer them honestly.

• As to those who have never heard the gospel, the Catechism quote from Lumen Gentium: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation" (CCC 847).
• No one knows why innocent people suffer--it is the great mystery that religion tries, but never quite succeeds to answer. You will find that science doesn't answer it either. We learn to be satisfied with the fact that God is with us in our suffering.
• God does love gays. We don't know why he allows them to have same sex attraction (which is likely due to exposure to hormones in the womb, or to environmental factors growing up), anymore than we understand why someone might have bipolar disorder, or down syndrome, or any other of a million variations that are not adaptive. What we DO know is that God ABSOLUTELY wants sex protected within a male/female marriage. Anyone not in such a marriage, whether they are gay OR STRAIGHT, is to be celibate. I'm celibate by the way -- I'll be celibate for the rest of my life. Celibates have a lot of time and creativity to offer in service to humanity.

 

[CodyFaith]

Something that helped convince me is to look at the highest name on the earth, honestly looking within yourself and seeing the name Jesus and trying to decipher it. You could say, culture, but that takes away the metaphysical aspect of the world we live in and is very atheistic to think that our minds are only shaped by culture and psychology.

Jesus's name is lifted high, and for a reason.
John 3:14-15

 

[dcalling]

Hi zg14, I was atheist, raised atheist, but later come to realize that there must be a God.

I was very interested in computers and learned how computer works in highschool. It striked me that computers is nothing more than a state machine, just a tool, and will never be as creative as humans (I wrote games too, so whatever you see in games as intelligence is fake). This made me realize that if we can't create intelligence, nature can't either and there must be a God.

My findings lead me to Buddism first, after years of doing that I realized that I will never conqure myself and archive enlightenment. At the same time I have been fighting Christianity, I like the warmness of Christian fellowships and debating Christians, I tried my best to not cave in, and eventually I realized that it is my own argence that lead me nowhere.

I even researched Quran as well. Read Quran Surah 5:47, or search all the verses on Gospel in Quran. Do you see the view of Quran on Gospel? Now ask most muslims on this form, they will tell you Gospel is corrupted. so..... I will stick with Christianty

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

I was a Catholic; now I'm an atheist. The transition was slow, and it began when certain parts of Christianity began to shake my faith. For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion? Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists? And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

Anyway, these questions troubled me so much that I went on to pursue the truth. My faith disappeared pretty quickly after I began to do some research online. At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one. In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious. Conversely, the idea of my fate being in the hands of a god who watches me constantly and dictates how I live my life lest I spend the afterlife in eternal suffering - that is not so appealing.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice. My beliefs are shaped by my environment, and of course by the subconscious functions of my mind. I can't just decide to believe in god if I don't actually believe. Can you "just decide" to believe in unicorns? My beliefs would shift only if I were offered evidence or a compelling argument.
SO, can anyone offer a non-believer any compelling arguments/evidence for God or for religion?
I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.
I look forward to reading what anyone has to say!

 

[Trichakra]

.

Nothing is there..

 

[zippy2006]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate if you took the time to read this!

Sure thing!

For example, if non-believers end up in hell, as I had been taught in catechism class, how is that fair to people who have never even had the opportunity to be exposed religion?

Let's see what the Catechism says, which is quoting Lumen Gentium 16:

CCC 847: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.​

Why do people suffer so much if a Christian god actually exists?

CCC 272: Faith in God the Father Almighty can be put to the test by the experience of evil and suffering. God can sometimes seem to be absent and incapable of stopping evil. But in the most mysterious way God the Father has revealed his almighty power in the voluntary humiliation and Resurrection of his Son, by which he conquered evil. Christ crucified is thus "the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." It is in Christ's Resurrection and exaltation that the Father has shown forth "the immeasurable greatness of his power in us who believe".​

See also John Paul II's encyclical Salvifici Doloris.

And what's the deal with the homophobia? I have been told god loves all his creations - if he does, his actions don't always show it.

CCC 2358: The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.​

At first, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there may not be a god, now, I am uncomfortable with the idea of there being one.

Why is that?

In my eyes, the idea of nothingness after death makes life infinitely more precious.

If I know that something ends in nothing, then why pursue that something? Anyone who lives for more than pleasure desires life to have greater meaning.

You identify as Christians because you came upon Christianity or because you were raised in it. Had you been born elsewhere, you might be a Muslim or a Buddhist. What grounds do you have for asserting that Christianity is the "correct" religion?

Many of us converted to the faith after looking into the matter. Christianity is true because Jesus of Nazareth is God. He turned the world upside down, filling it with meaning and giving a definitive answer to the questions of meaning and death.

Furthermore, I do think that belief is not a choice.

If beliefs are not a choice, then why do you take pleasure in your atheism?

I've heard all the compelling atheist arguments, now I think it is only fair I hear the Christian side of things too.

Where did the world come from? Why do we exist?