Conversions to Orthodoxy

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

How are you all Doin? I am so happy to come across such a wonderful forum. I am Serbian and always taught that in USA and other countries there aren't Orthodox ppl, until i came here(to Canada) I am so glad that ppl convert to Orthodox Christianity, and since I don't speak English that good, i'll just try to say a few words and I hope U understand me. You guys have no idea how happy I am to hear your stories. My family, being Serbian and coming from communist families, didn't know anything about religion as well, until some things happened in our lives. I am glad that they "see again" and that I am raised as and Orthodox Christaian, since they never had that chance because of their parents. So I just wanna say that yeah, becoming and being Orthodox is hard and u'll have lots of temptations and lots of troubles, but it sure is worth it. As my dad says:"When I became religious, everything bad started happening to me, as if devil wanted to break me apart!" My dad...always right. well,God be with u and don't give up. It's a hard way up but I am sure if you kep going, you'll never fall down! (I don't know what to put on the end but i'll put May God be with u, or Zbogom in Serbian).

 

[Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta]

Marina, Welcome!!! I'm glad you've joined us! I'm sure we can all benefit from your thoughts and experiences. Don't worry about the English language thing too much. English is my first language and even I have trouble sometimes!

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Well, I posted this as a response in another thread. Rather than type it twice, I figured I'd just cut-n-paste it here. My conversion story:

Moses the Black, what was it that lead you away from your former church?

Well, nothing lead away from my former Church, so much as I was lead to The Orthodox Church. Not to get hung up on semantics

Rather than give you the whole play by play, I'll try to make it brief

I was raised as an Ind. Fund. KJV Baptist. I stopped going to Church altogether at age 19 and became an alcoholic. When I came to myself and saw the pig-pen that my life had become, I decided to turn my life around. With the help of my parents, I checked into a Christian rehab farm, run by an Independent, Fundamental, Bible-believing, premillennial, hard-preaching, soul-winning, etc etc etc Baptist Church. I was dedicated becoming sober, repenting, and doing the will of God. I read the Holy Bible, cover to cover (KJV of course).

I went on a tour of fellow independent Churches with a Gospel singing group to raise money for our ministry. It was there that I noticed how many different interpretations of basic doctrines there were among people who are supposed to believe in the same book (and in the same translation of the same book). I was told that the Holy Spirit would speak to my heart as I read the Scriptures, and He would teach me the meaning of His Word. Well, bottom line is, either this doctrine is wrong, or the Holy Spirit is schizophrenic- because nobody I met believed the same things as the other.

For example: One preacher says "Repentance is necessary for salvation", another says "No! Repentance is a work! We are saved by faith, not works" and yet another says "repentance is necessary, but it's not really a work." Pretty soon the Bible verses start flying back and forth. It got ugly sometimes

I knew of the Orthodox Church from a friend who had converted after a paralyzing car accident. When I got home from the farm, sober and desiring to do God's will, I talked to him about it. We had talked many times before about Orthodoxy, but I was either drunk or didn't care. This time I listened.

At my first Orthodox service after coming home, I told the Priest I wanted to be a Catechumen, which is a person preparing to become Orthodox. Incidentally, my future wife was standing in line behind me and overheard me talking to the Priest. We struck up conversation and the rest is history

I read a ton of books. I prayed. I studied history. Orthodox history stretched all the way back to the Apostles. I found "The Trail of Blood", a tract which charts Baptist history, to be, quite frankly, poorly written fiction. I saw the doctrines of the Orthodox Church were the doctrines of the Apostles. And all those verses that remained un-highlighted in my Bible suddenly made sense in the context of Holy Tradition. It was that same Holy Tradition that decided which books were truly Scripture. If I believed Scripture, I had to believe Holy Tradition. Without one, there cannot be the other.

Most importantly, I found that it is in the context of the life of the Orthodox Church that salvation is found. Not just salvation from Hell, but salvation from sin!! For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Rom 8:2) This salvation is not a "say a prayer and believe" kind of salvation, it is a life-transforming salvation. It is the crucifixion of ourselves daily with fasting and prayer. It is Life.

I was received by Holy Chrismation into the Orthodox Church April 26th, 2003.

My mom had a terrible time with it. I assured her, as I assure you now and any other Baptist who may read this, that Orthodoxy for me was not a rejection of my childhood Faith, but the fulfillment of it. I am so grateful to my Baptist Preachers and Sunday School teachers who taught me to love Christ and read His Holy Scriptures and memorize them. Without that seed of Truth, I would have never found "The Church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all." (Eph 1:22-23)

To Him be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen

Moses

 

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Thanx Elizaveta(You have such a wonderful name)! You guys make me happy really! It's kind of hard for me to talk like Orthodox Christian in English, hehe, cuz I go to Serbian Orthodox Church where priests don't know English so the service is all in Serbian and I don't know how to say the names of the saints and people from the Bible in English, but I'll try my best Thanx a lot again! God's peace be upon you!

 

[Suzannah]

Thanx Elizaveta(You have such a wonderful name)! You guys make me happy really! It's kind of hard for me to talk like Orthodox Christian in English, hehe, cuz I go to Serbian Orthodox Church where priests don't know English so the service is all in Serbian and I don't know how to say the names of the saints and people from the Bible in English, but I'll try my best Thanx a lot again! God's peace be upon you!

Hii Marina!!!!

I go to a Serbian church and we are almost all converts from America, England, Ireland.... our services are in English....maybe if you have trouble here with English names, I can help you....
The only Serbian I know is a little bit from the Liturgy...but I would love to learn some Serbian. Maybe you could help me learn a little bit? Like how to say: Hi!!!! Welcome!!! So glad you are here!!!!


Love,
Suzannah

 

[Michael G]

The long waited for second part to my conversion story....(part 1)

Before I discuss what happened at Seminary, I must discuss the conversation I had with a man in the computer lab at UT late one evening which lasted for many hours. I was in the computer lab doing some class work and chatting on the internet when a guy started to discuss the Catholic Church with me. I think I remember his name was Gene. I could tell from the outset of this conversation Gene was a very traditionalist Catholic. We discussed all of the liturgical abuses which have crept into the creation of the Novus Ordo (New Order/Post Vatican 2) Mass, and also the abuses which crept into the old Tridentine Mass in the 50’s and 60’s. I agreed with him on these points. He then went on to say some things like certain bishops and cardinals were secretly masons and that made them invalid and while I forget most of his arguments, his final point was that the See of Rome was vacant. He believed the entire Roman Church to be in heresy and doubted they had valid orders. I had known there were quite a few Catholics who believed like this, and they called themselves “Sede Vacantists” (meaning “The Chair is Vacant”), but I had never met anyone like this before. At this point the conversation had reached well into the early morning, and I told him I was willing to grant him everything which he said if he could answer one question for me. My question was this: “What about the Bishops of the other 6 rites of the Catholic Church, especially the Byzantines?” He could not answer this question and eventually we parted ways. Now this whole long conversation is not what is important to this event, what is important is that when I got in my car I was so confused that I prayed. I said a prayer to my most favorite saint, St. Peter, and praised him as being the Prince of the Apostles and asked him to pray for me that Our Lord might lead me to the True Faith, whether that be the Catholic Church or that be found elsewhere. I thoroughly expected the answer to be “the Catholic Church is the True Apostolic Church,” but at the same time there was this little nagging doubt in the back of my mind which reminded me that the Orthodox also claimed to have valid Apostolic succession and to be the keepers of the Apostolic faith.

Seminary life at St. Vincent was like the beginning to the book A Tale of Two Cities. It was the best of times and it was the worst of times. I must give credit to the Benedictine Monks at St. Vincent, they treat the seminarians very, very well. I had a very comfortable room to stay in, ate very well and had some very challenging professors while at St. Vincent’s.

The first semester of seminary studies went fairly well. Except in latin, my grades were very solid. I learned a lot in my classes, especially in the Spirituality class which I will mention later. There were the usual bumps in the road, but it was challenging, and I made quite a few new friends. I made a number of very good friends while in seminary, Tom who later became a monk and took the monastic name Anthony, Rob who was studying for the Diocese of Wheeling as well and also left the seminary a year after I left, and Roberto and Adrian who are both now priests for the Arch Diocese of Atlanta. My spiritual advisor in Seminary was Fr. Justin, who was the seminary spiritual director. Fr. Justin is a bi-ritual Roman-Maronite Benedictine Monk, and he did a very good job in directing me during seminary. As I will explain later, both he and the rector, Fr. Tom, did a very good job during the year which I was there in directing my faith. However, the relationship which I formed in seminary which would be the strongest and have the most lasting impact on my life is the one which I formed with Peter, my icon teacher.

During this best of times, the first major cracks started forming in my Roman Catholic faith. The first major crack formed during the intercession of spirituality class one Wednesday afternoon. One of the students in class named Hien said something errant in class, and during the intercession while we were all in the dining hall having a snack Tom said that what Hien said was heresy. At this point I nearly blew my lid. I used to think that everything that was said which was errant was heresy and by the time I had come to seminary I began to realize that things which were said in error were not heresy, just erroneous statements. Another large crack formed during another intercession period for spirituality class when we were discussing the topic of sacraments which we had been talking about earlier that morning during Catholic Faith and Culture class. Tom asked at what point a marriage was a valid marriage, and then he and Roberto and I got into the discussion of when the sacrament actually takes place during the ritual of that sacrament. I remember being completely turned off by this conversation and thinking in the back of my mind that the legalism and scholasticism that Rome employed in its teachings had gone far enough. Thus, legalism is the second major crack to form in my then Catholic faith. St. Thomas Aquinas is not the 4th person of the Trinity. He is the one responsible for the whole legalistic outlook of the Catholic Church, he and St. Augustine. They both took this hard line view of everything has to be done according to the rules, much like the Jewish Pharisees did. There is no black and white. There can not be. What may be good pastoral advice to one situation might be a disastrous idea to another. Our relationship with God is not based on rules, it is based on faith, love and perseverance. That is why I reject the protestant idea of being "saved instantaneously". Salvation is a lifelong journey with Christ. That journey will have ups and downs and might even have spots where we regress instead of progress. But it the end the journey with Christ should move you considerably closer to God. You can not make hard fast rules to set boundaries for that relationship, which is what the Catholic Church often attempts to do. The counseling of my Orthodox priest who understands this very idea is what has kept me in both good standing with the church and what has kept me working harder at getting closer to God. These were the first two major cracks that formed in my Catholic faith.

About the second week of seminary I began taking an informal icon painting class with my teacher, whose name shall remain unmentioned here. I have always loved art and had begun to develop this interest in iconography, so I figured the class would be fun. I had dabbled in many other types of art prior to this class, and was a fairly good artist in my own rite. I did not know when I began the class in the fall of 1996 that 8 years later I would still be painting icons and that the class would serve as the doorway into Orthodoxy for me. But it did. My Icon teacher is not Orthodox, he is Catholic, but he believes as the Orthodox do when it comes to icons and did a very good job teaching me about iconography. I took the class that fall and wrote the icon of the Archangel Gabriel, and then took the class during the spring semester and wrote an icon of the Theotokus and then took a week long seminar that summer and wrote the icon of St. George. After leaving seminary I continued to paint icons (although they were not very good at that time because I didn’t have much direction) and then when I moved to Pittsburgh in 1999 I studied with Peter for an additional 2 years. When I first began taking the class in iconography I was introduced outside the class to Fr. Athanasius, who is a Bi-Ritual Byzantine/Roman Monk at St. Vincent’s ArchAbbey. It was Fr. Athanasius who began to teach me the Orthodox faith, although because he is Catholic he referred to it as the Byzantine faith. Fr. Athanasius would bring me photo copies of sections of books on iconography and on the Orthodox faith. When my icon was completed, he brought his stole, holy water and chrism and blessed the icon of Gabriel for me. During Great Lent he took me to Pre-Sanctified liturgy with him on Wednesday nights. By this point, I was clearly on a road which would lead to Orthodoxy.

 

[Michael G]

Of the classes which I took during the first semester of Seminary, the class which would have the greatest impact on me was the one on Spirituality, which was taught by Dr. Susan Stangle. At first, Roberto, Tom and I did not know if we should trust Dr. Stangle. We did not understand why we would need a class to teach us about spirituality. However, after the first couple of classes it became quite clear that she knew what she was talking about and that she was not trying to push liberal Catholicism on us, which was our greatest concern about her. For spirituality class, 1/3 of our grade came from two essays which we needed to write on different spiritual people. For my first essay I chose St. Ignatius of Antioch, who by that time had become a favorite of mine. I had read his apologies many times and had taken a pretty good grasp on what he taught. For that essay I got an A. I can’t remember who I did the second essay on, but I got an even higher A on that one than I did on the first. By the time we had all given our essays, only one topic was left which no one had chosen: iconography. Being that I already had a solid A running in the class, I did not want to chance hurting my grade. I struck a deal with Dr. Stangle that I would do the essay on Iconography and if I got a better grade than the ones I already had the grade would stick, but if I got a lower score the grade would be thrown out. As it turns out, I got a much higher A than either of the previous grades, and that essay eventually evolved into the paper which I had published in WORD magazine Dec. 2000. But this was only half the reason why that class was so worth while.

The other part of Spirituality class which really stuck with me was the final paper which we had to write. That paper was 2/3 of our grade. The entire class we spent discussing the idea of the Spiritual realm and all of the arenas in the spiritual realm which went into the formation of ones relationship with God. We read a number of texts on the spiritual life, including He Leadeth Me by Fr. Walter Ciszek, a bi-ritual Roman-Byzantine priest who had been imprisoned by the Soviets for many years and during that time learned the true meaning of prayer and spirituality. I would highly recommend this book to anyone. For the final paper, we had to choose an event in our life and apply all the areas of spirituality which had been discussed in class to that event and show how God had used it to further our relationship with him. I chose my reaction to the sloppily prayed funeral of my friend Jim Schoen. When I was about 2/3 of the way done with the paper I took it to Dr. Stangle for her to proofread and she told me it was a nice paper but she would only give me a B on it. At that point, the paper was already 15 pages long, and the minimum page count had to be 10. She said if I wanted an A I had to address the real problem. The real problem was not with how the priest handled the funeral, although my reaction to that was certainly part of the symptoms. The real problem was my letting go of such a great influence in my life. The writing of this paper did much to teach me about spirituality, the role God plays in forming our lives and the role we play in forming our relationships with God and others. The paper ended up being 33 pages long, and I ended up getting an A on it and for the class. But what is most important is that I began to understand an area of Christianity which I had never understood before nor wanted to understand. As I look back at this now, it did a lot to push me in the direction of Holy Orthodoxy.

The second semester of Seminary was not nearly as easy as the first one.
The second semester might very well be called the worst of times. I began having migraine headaches every day, and began loosing interest in most of my classes, except of course the extra-curricular iconography class which I was taking. I also began to seriously question my Roman Catholic faith. As Great Lent set in for 1997 I began to attend the Liturgy of Pre-Sanctified Gifts with Fr. Athanasius every Weds night after Mass. About this time I also stopped attending Sunday Mass altogether at the direction of my spiritual director. I had told Fr. Justin during spiritual direction one day that I was attending Mass on Sat night and Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning. His response was that I had to choose one or the other because by attending both I was saying that neither is adequate and so I needed to attend both, where in fact both are completely valid Liturgies in the eyes of the Catholic Church. And so I chose the Divine Liturgy over the Mass, even though I was still attending daily Mass with my seminary brothers. During this period I also made it quite clear that I was openly questioning whether or not I should remain Roman Catholic, become Bi-Ritual Roman-Byzantine Catholic, or just totally convert to being Byzantine Catholic. I did not realize that God would eventually ask me to accept that what I really wanted was Orthodoxy.

I am not going to relive all of the pains of those 5 long months of the second semester of seminary. To me they are still painful at times, but I think the details would put most of the world to sleep. They were stressful times and lonely times to me. Yes, I had many friends there, but it is also clear that I had upset quiet a few people. I became very caught up in Iconography and the Byzantine church and nearly to the point of disgustion with the Catholic Church. What I will say is that as May came along it was becoming clear to me which direction I was headed in. I thought I would stay another year, at least long enough to earn a second BA, this time in Philosophy, before I was forced to make up my mind. Obviously God had other intentions. During that semester we had to undergo peer evaluations, which were a very unchristian way of doing evaluations. The day I was given my peer evaluation my spiritual director was off campus. Looking back at that now, I realize he was probably off campus that day to avoid having to confront me with the scandalous peer evaluation which I was given. There really is nothing new under the sun, so why should it surprise me that he tried to wash his hands of such outrage? During that time period the rector and I had discussed what path I should take, and he could see I was leaning greatly in the direction of the East, so when the other two members of the Seminary Formation Committee voted that I not return he went along with their decision. He later told me he had the power to veto their decision but in my case he thought I belonged in the Byzantine Church. I was not given this information until about a month after the seminary school year had let out, while I was already doing my summer internship at my home parish. At first when this information was relayed to me first by the Diocesan vocations director and then later the Seminary Rector I felt let down. Then I realized I was free to make my mind up about what I should do next. As William Wallace’s father said to him in a dream in the movie Braveheart: “Your heart is free, have the courage to follow your heart.”

To quote Dr. Seusss, “Oh the places you will go!” That fall I got a job in Columbus and moved in with an old high school friend and began my new life on my own. Upon moving to Columbus I made a decision to attend the Byzantine Catholic church there, St. John Chrysostom, and not one of the Roman Catholic ones. This is despite the fact the Roman Catholic Churches were much closer to me than the Byzantine Church which was a good 25 minute drive for me. I learned a lot while attending St. John’s for a year and praying with the people there. The priest was a short bearded man named Fr. Eugene who reminded me of icons of St. Nicholas. Fr. Eugene did a wonderful job educating his parish on how to be “Byzantine” and he did much to teach me about Orthodoxy.

 

[Michael G]

I would probably have been content with St. John’s if I had not been introduced to Dennis Bell and my future wife Patti. I went to Dennis to seek further instruction in iconography, but what I received was an Orthodox faith. Dennis insisted on discussing Orthodoxy and my standing in the church every time I would call or visit him. He probed my faith and helped me to question why I was still Catholic and what was holding me back from becoming Orthodox. Shortly after these discussions with Dennis began I met Patti. I met Patti shortly after I had petitioned to have my “ritual” in the Catholic Church formally changed from Latin Rite to Byzantine Rite. Little did I know I would abandon this petition because 9 months later I would be received into the Holy Orthodox Church. I tried to explain to Patti that I was Byzantine Catholic which is Orthodox under the Pope. She did not buy it one second. Her attitude was (and still is) a person is either Roman Catholic or they are Orthodox, but they can not be both. Her accusing me of being a fence sitter really hit hard to me. She would attend Divine Liturgy with me on Sundays, but made it clear to me that I really needed to make up my mind what I was. Was I Catholic, or was I Orthodox? The last time I took communion in a Roman Catholic church was at my Grandmother’s funeral in October 1998, and I did such out of respect for my deceased grandmother. Shortly after this would be the last time I received communion in a Byzantine Catholic Church as well.

In the fall of 1998 I moved up to northern Ohio to be closer to Patti and I searched for a good Byzantine Catholic parish to attend. I could not find any. They all seemed to be Roman Catholic parishes with Icons and the Divine Liturgy. I drove back down to Columbus one day and presented Fr. Eugene with my dilemma and his response completely caught me off guard. He told me to attend St. Theodosius OCA Church in Cleveland. I told him I could partake of the Eucharist there because I was not Orthodox and his response was that I should do as I needed to do. Patti and I attended Divine Liturgy at St. Theodosius a Sunday or two later and the people were all very welcoming. The priest Fr. Jason invited me to “marinate” in Orthodoxy and see how it fit and not jump to any decisions. When I told Dennis of our visit I told him we liked our experience at St. Theodosius, but that it was too far of a drive for us. Dennis said he had written some icons for a church in Lorain and that I should go talk to it’s priest, Fr. Basil Stoyka.

I called Fr. Basil and explained to him the situation I was in and that I was seriously considering whether or not I should be Chrismated an Orthodox Christian. He invited Patti and I to meet with him after Saturday night vespers. When we went to meet him he explained some of the various things about the Divine Liturgy and we discussed some of the differences between Orthodoxy and the Catholic Church. He invited us to Liturgy on Sunday and to come back the following Saturday night to continue our discussion of Orthodoxy. At this point it was late October or early November 1998. He also gave me a stack of books to devour. I won’t go through the boring details of every article of faith which I struggled with or every bright revelation of Orthodoxy which I realized while studying the faith. I will point out one such moment however that does stand out to me. The feast of the Baptism in the Jordan earlier that year as the Troparion was sung “At your baptism in the Jordan worship of the Trinity was revealed for the Father spoke and the Spirit came upon you like a dove” was the first time I ever realized this even to be a manifestation of the Trinity. There were plenty of other events similar to this which would follow. Eventually through our discussions it was clear there was only one final sticking point which I had left with Orthodoxy: letting go of the Primacy of Peter. At that time this was a very scary thing for me to let go of. However, you can not be Orthodox and at the same time insist that there is one centralized authority who speaks for the entire Church, just as you can’t be Orthodox and accept many of the teachings which Rome has promulgated in the past 1000 years. This is not the Orthodox way. It also struck me as just a little ironic at the time that I had prayed this prayer to St. Peter about 2 years earlier that St. Peter have God show me the true faith and that I was seriously considering becoming Orthodox. Eventually I just had to take the leap of faith.
After having read almost everything I could get my hands on in regards to Holy Orthodoxy and having spent many hours discussing the faith with priests and laity I made the decision to join the Holy Orthodox Church. I informed Fr. Basil of my desire after Divine Liturgy on The Sunday of Orthodoxy 1999 and Fr. Basil while filled with joy told me that I should spend Great Lent praying over the matter and towards the end of Lent he would chrismate me. He said because I had a Trinitarian baptism as an infant he would not need to baptize me. He also recommended that I request of Dennis that he be my sponsor. What had once seemed like an imposibility to me, namely leaving the Catholic faith in which I grew up, was now very quickly becoming a reality.

I was chrismated an Orthodox Christian immediately after vespers on Lazarus Saturday 1999 at Sts. Peter and Paul Orthodox Church in Lorain, Ohio. Dennis Bell served as my sponsor and Fr. Basil Stoyka chrismated me. It was a most beautiful service, walking around the church holding on to the priest’s stole and having the Holy Chrism applied to my forehead, mouth, hands, and feet. I was given a pair of icons, one of Christ Pantocrator and one of the Theotokus Hogeditra as well as a gold Orthodox cross to wear. After the chrismation Fr. Basil reminded me that I had not given up my Catholic faith but rather had found the fullness and abundance of the faith in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church. The following day at liturgy I was welcomed with open arms by the people of Sts. Peter and Paul Church.

Looking back at the whole process now, the chrismation was only the beginning. After my chrismation I truly was a neophyte and would begin to learn much about Orthodoxy and how Orthodox do things. The Jesus Prayer which had been a comfort to me since the days of seminary would take on new meaning to me. I learned a lot about liturgy and about praying. I have learned to take very seriously the role I play as an iconographer in helping to teach the gospel and to keep the sacred traditions. I have slowly learned to trust God in all things and to see the Church as a large extended family. I am glad God has brought me home to Holy Orthodoxy. I am glad I can pray in peace at every Divine Liturgy, no matter who is praying the liturgy. It brings me joy that confession is taken seriously because it is to be a healing process for the soul and not just a grocery list of sins. The fast of Great Lent brings a new and much greater joy to Holy Pascha than I had ever experienced prior to my conversion. In short, it is good to be home in the Holy Orthodox Church. I thank God and bless him every day for patiently leading me home.

 

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Iconographer,
You made tears across my face thanx for telling us your story. I am nt converted and now I see what a big thing it is to be born as Orthodox because I never had to go through questioning myself and all the troubles you guys had to go through...but God is worth everything and I am so glad that you have found Him! God bless you!

Marina

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Hi, all.


I guess this will be my introduction to TAW. I just joined yesterday. I am also a convert to Orthodoxy. I was chrismated into an OCA mission on Holy Saturday, 2001, taking the name of Mary (sister of Martha & Lazarus), which is my given name also. I live in a Dallas suburb, and work in Dallas, near St. Seraphim Cathedral.

I grew up in a Christian family, very active in the Southern Baptist churches, youth group, choir, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, the whole shebang. After my marriage to a non-church goer, I got away from church for awhile, but after our two sons were born, I joined a SB church in Dallas and started going with them. Later, my husband started attending with us, and he and both sons were eventually baptised in Baptist churches also. By that time, though, I was already feeling the need for true worship which I felt was missing, and had been reading about different denominations and how they worshiped. By 1990, I had become convinced that the Sacraments were real, and I needed them, so I left the Baptist church and began attending an Anglican Catholic church (I didn't know at first that it was separated from ECUSA, I just knew it was "high church"). It was no accident, because it wasn't beset with the cockeyed theology of ECUSA, and was a "safe" place to learn about catholic belief and sacramental Christianity. My whole family was confirmed into that church in 1991. We were in a wonderful parish with a wonderful Priest whom I still consider my friend, but as I continued to read about the ancient Church, other questions began to arise. The "usual questions" - what is the Church, where is it, does it still exist, am I a part of it? This, plus some friends who began a home church patterned after Orthodoxy (though not canonical in any way!) started my interest in Orthodoxy. I knew there were Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox, etc., but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

So once again, I started reading everything I could, and around 1997 started attending some services and classes around the area. I was in a serious auto accident just before Thanksgiving that year which put things on hold for almost a year, but then hubby & I started attending "Orthodoxy 101" classes being held at Holy Trinity GO, which included a Vespers service, so it was very helpful. However, we didn't like that quite a bit of the Liturgy was in Greek, and as incredibly beautiful as their temple is and as much as we liked the young Priest, it just didn't seem quite right for us.

Then I found an OCA mission about 20 minutes away from home, and met the Priest there, who started coming to our home to instruct hubby and I. After several months, he was ready to make us Catechumens, but at that point my husband decided he couldn't leave our Anglican parish - he was too happy there to actually make the move. But we decided (together with both Priests) that it would be best for me to go ahead and convert on my own, so I was made a Catechumen in February, then brought into the Church on Holy Saturday.

It has been a struggle for me, because I'm totally alone as far as family & friends go, and my shyness keeps me from joining into the parish as much as I should. We have a new Priest who has already been very helpful in making me focus on the important things, and quit expecting perfection from myself. So I'm just trying to keep my focus on daily prayers, fasting, confessing, and receiving the Holy Mysteries, and on getting right back up when I fall down.

I love Orthodoxy. I could never worship any other way now, and I'm amazed at the almost completely different understanding of Christianity and my relationship to Christ that the Church teaches, compared to my protestant understanding. I just wish that every Christian would accept Orthodoxy!

Please pray for my husband and two sons that they will find the True Church one day, too.

Mary

 

[Oblio]

Welcome to TAW Mary ! A wonderful conversion story that you shared. Be sure and stop by the Taverna

 

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

hey!

Welcome Maria(can I call you that way?) I hope that your family becomes Orthodox as well. It's very hard to do everything alone, and if you need anything, there's lots of nice people here whom you can ask questions, and I pray for the best for you and your family! God bless you! Byez

Marina

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Thank you, Oblio, I'll do that.

And hi, Marina. You can call me anything you want.
I had not heard of a St. Marina until today when I was looking for a pic of an icon of St. Mary of Bethany, and came across St. Marina. Can you tell me about her?

 

[MariaRegina]

Of the classes which I took during the first semester of Seminary, the class which would have the greatest impact on me was the one on Spirituality, which was taught by Dr. Susan Stangle. At first, Roberto, Tom and I did not know if we should trust Dr. Stangle. We did not understand why we would need a class to teach us about spirituality. However, after the first couple of classes it became quite clear that she knew what she was talking about and that she was not trying to push liberal Catholicism on us, which was our greatest concern about her. For spirituality class, 1/3 of our grade came from two essays which we needed to write on different spiritual people. For my first essay I chose St. Ignatius of Antioch, who by that time had become a favorite of mine. I had read his apologies many times and had taken a pretty good grasp on what he taught. For that essay I got an A. I can’t remember who I did the second essay on, but I got an even higher A on that one than I did on the first. By the time we had all given our essays, only one topic was left which no one had chosen: iconography. Being that I already had a solid A running in the class, I did not want to chance hurting my grade. I struck a deal with Dr. Stangle that I would do the essay on Iconography and if I got a better grade than the ones I already had the grade would stick, but if I got a lower score the grade would be thrown out. As it turns out, I got a much higher A than either of the previous grades, and that essay eventually evolved into the paper which I had published in WORD magazine Dec. 2000. But this was only half the reason why that class was so worth while.

The other part of Spirituality class which really stuck with me was the final paper which we had to write. That paper was 2/3 of our grade. The entire class we spent discussing the idea of the Spiritual realm and all of the arenas in the spiritual realm which went into the formation of ones relationship with God. We read a number of texts on the spiritual life, including He Leadeth Me by Fr. Walter Ciszek, a bi-ritual Roman-Byzantine priest who had been imprisoned by the Soviets for many years and during that time learned the true meaning of prayer and spirituality. I would highly recommend this book to anyone. For the final paper, we had to choose an event in our life and apply all the areas of spirituality which had been discussed in class to that event and show how God had used it to further our relationship with him. I chose my reaction to the sloppily prayed funeral of my friend Jim Schoen. When I was about 2/3 of the way done with the paper I took it to Dr. Stangle for her to proofread and she told me it was a nice paper but she would only give me a B on it. At that point, the paper was already 15 pages long, and the minimum page count had to be 10. She said if I wanted an A I had to address the real problem. The real problem was not with how the priest handled the funeral, although my reaction to that was certainly part of the symptoms. The real problem was my letting go of such a great influence in my life. The writing of this paper did much to teach me about spirituality, the role God plays in forming our lives and the role we play in forming our relationships with God and others. The paper ended up being 33 pages long, and I ended up getting an A on it and for the class. But what is most important is that I began to understand an area of Christianity which I had never understood before nor wanted to understand. As I look back at this now, it did a lot to push me in the direction of Holy Orthodoxy.

The second semester of Seminary was not nearly as easy as the first one.
The second semester might very well be called the worst of times. I began having migraine headaches every day, and began loosing interest in most of my classes, except of course the extra-curricular iconography class which I was taking. I also began to seriously question my Roman Catholic faith. As Great Lent set in for 1997 I began to attend the Liturgy of Pre-Sanctified Gifts with Fr. Athanasius every Weds night after Mass. About this time I also stopped attending Sunday Mass altogether at the direction of my spiritual director. I had told Fr. Justin during spiritual direction one day that I was attending Mass on Sat night and Divine Liturgy on Sunday morning. His response was that I had to choose one or the other because by attending both I was saying that neither is adequate and so I needed to attend both, where in fact both are completely valid Liturgies in the eyes of the Catholic Church. And so I chose the Divine Liturgy over the Mass, even though I was still attending daily Mass with my seminary brothers. During this period I also made it quite clear that I was openly questioning whether or not I should remain Roman Catholic, become Bi-Ritual Roman-Byzantine Catholic, or just totally convert to being Byzantine Catholic. I did not realize that God would eventually ask me to accept that what I really wanted was Orthodoxy.

I am not going to relive all of the pains of those 5 long months of the second semester of seminary. To me they are still painful at times, but I think the details would put most of the world to sleep. They were stressful times and lonely times to me. Yes, I had many friends there, but it is also clear that I had upset quiet a few people. I became very caught up in Iconography and the Byzantine church and nearly to the point of disgustion with the Catholic Church. What I will say is that as May came along it was becoming clear to me which direction I was headed in. I thought I would stay another year, at least long enough to earn a second BA, this time in Philosophy, before I was forced to make up my mind. Obviously God had other intentions. During that semester we had to undergo peer evaluations, which were a very unchristian way of doing evaluations. The day I was given my peer evaluation my spiritual director was off campus. Looking back at that now, I realize he was probably off campus that day to avoid having to confront me with the scandalous peer evaluation which I was given. There really is nothing new under the sun, so why should it surprise me that he tried to wash his hands of such outrage? During that time period the rector and I had discussed what path I should take, and he could see I was leaning greatly in the direction of the East, so when the other two members of the Seminary Formation Committee voted that I not return he went along with their decision. He later told me he had the power to veto their decision but in my case he thought I belonged in the Byzantine Church. I was not given this information until about a month after the seminary school year had let out, while I was already doing my summer internship at my home parish. At first when this information was relayed to me first by the Diocesan vocations director and then later the Seminary Rector I felt let down. Then I realized I was free to make my mind up about what I should do next. As William Wallace’s father said to him in a dream in the movie Braveheart: “Your heart is free, have the courage to follow your heart.”

To quote Dr. Seusss, “Oh the places you will go!” That fall I got a job in Columbus and moved in with an old high school friend and began my new life on my own. Upon moving to Columbus I made a decision to attend the Byzantine Catholic church there, St. John Chrysostom, and not one of the Roman Catholic ones. This is despite the fact the Roman Catholic Churches were much closer to me than the Byzantine Church which was a good 25 minute drive for me. I learned a lot while attending St. John’s for a year and praying with the people there. The priest was a short bearded man named Fr. Eugene who reminded me of icons of St. Nicholas. Fr. Eugene did a wonderful job educating his parish on how to be “Byzantine” and he did much to teach me about Orthodoxy.

Dear Michael:

I've heard a lot about Father Eugene and how Orthodox he is in his theology, but that doesn't surprise me as many of the Byzantine Catholic priests I have met are so close to the Orthodox Church and agree with Archbishop Zogby's position. I held the same opinion until I realized that it wasn't realistic at this time.

Thanks for sharing your conversion story.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

 

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Hey Maria!

Yeah there are more than one St. Marina, but I think you are talking about St. Marina that is celebrated on 30 July(or 13 August, depends what calendar you are following). St. Marina was killed for her Christian faith when she was only 16. I am not sure, but I think what she did is she said in front of everyone that she is Christian and her dad was pagan like most of other Greeks, and so he was I think the one who actually ordered people to torture her, and when other pagans saw what they did to St. Marina, very big number of them converted to Christianity and was aloso killed. She is called also Great Martyr St. Marina because she made so many others convert to Christianity! I got one icon of her from Greece that one guy gave me, and I also have one icon of her that I got for birthday from my friends from the Church in Serbia. I really like your name, by the way See yazz Bye

Marina

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Thanks, Marina.


I remember that story. I guess I just didn't remember her name.

I see you are in Serbia. My parish's patron saint is St. Sava of Serbia.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Dear Michael:

I've heard a lot about Father Eugene and how Orthodox he is in his theology, but that doesn't surprise me as many of the Byzantine Catholic priests I have met are so close to the Orthodox Church and agree with Archbishop Zogby's position. I held the same opinion until I realized that it wasn't realistic at this time.

Thanks for sharing your conversion story.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

This is getting off-topic, so I apologize, but I saw a program on tv last night that really amazed me. I was flipping through the channels and EWTN (the conservate Catholic channel) had their "Coming Home" program on - they have a guest who has converted to Catholicism tell about their journey. Except this time, the guest looked and spoke exactly like an Orthodox priest! (He was actually a Priest/Monk.) His name is Fr. Terry Kraychuk, and he is in a monastery near Toronto. Everything he said about theology and spirituality and the Theotokos was completely Orthodox. Except of course, he wasn't Orthodox, he was Ukrainian Catholic, and in obedience to the Pope. But I didn't realize that they were so thoroughly Orthodox in belief and practice. He talked about the difference between "Eastern church" spirituality and the West. About "theosis" and the Jesus Prayer and the understanding of the role of the Theotokos in salvation.

It was very, very interesting. It's just too bad that he and other Eastern Catholics think they are already Orthodox, and all that needs to happen to unify the Church is for all the Orthodox bodies to come under the Pope.

 

[Michael G]

This is getting off-topic, so I apologize, but I saw a program on tv last night that really amazed me. I was flipping through the channels and EWTN (the conservate Catholic channel) had their "Coming Home" program on - they have a guest who has converted to Catholicism tell about their journey. Except this time, the guest looked and spoke exactly like an Orthodox priest! (He was actually a Priest/Monk.) His name is Fr. Terry Kraychuk, and he is in a monastery near Toronto. Everything he said about theology and spirituality and the Theotokos was completely Orthodox. Except of course, he wasn't Orthodox, he was Ukrainian Catholic, and in obedience to the Pope. But I didn't realize that they were so thoroughly Orthodox in belief and practice. He talked about the difference between "Eastern church" spirituality and the West. About "theosis" and the Jesus Prayer and the understanding of the role of the Theotokos in salvation.

It was very, very interesting. It's just too bad that he and other Eastern Catholics think they are already Orthodox, and all that needs to happen to unify the Church is for all the Orthodox bodies to come under the Pope.

Mary,
I thought that way for about a year and a half. I thought I could be Orthodox but under obedience to the Pope. I did not realize until after I was chrismated that this is totally impossible, as my friend Elizabeth has said. There are Byzantines who look Orthodox and even kind of think Orthodox but they are not Orthodox, they are Catholic. It takes an act of humility to realize this and then make the necessary changes which necessitate conversion to Orthodoxy.

 

[MaRiNa_Orthodox]

Hello Maria!

Yeah I am Serbian from Serbia, but I don't live there right now. I still go to Serbian Orthodox Church here in Canada and my city actually has 2 Serbian Orthodox Churches. I am very lucky to have so many people from Serbia around me and I am very happy that it is here as close as it can look like Serbia St. Sava is our big saint and I am sure you know the story about him. Every school in Serbia celebrates St. Sava day because he was the one who made Serbs more literate and he built lots of monasteries and schools. St. Sava pray to God for us!

Marina

 

[Rilian]

Hmmmm, something tells me Sljivovica may replace Ouzo in the taverna soon.