Conversions to Orthodoxy

[mophed20]

well i am not baptized nor catechized into the Orthodox Church, but i have been an inquirer for the past 3 or so months. I got a little bored with the cheap grace that my former church raised me on. i also got bored of mainstream/modern Christian thought and how post-modernism seeped into Christian theology and translation of the scriptures. i am just worried about the human tendency of depending a ton on tradition and losing the love towards Christ that every Christian should have, so it's hard for me to go any further. i don't even feel like i can venerate icons without feeling like i am doing something wrong. though i do understand the purpose of icons, and know where my heart needs to be when venerating them, i just can't seem to get to that place. and a lot of other stuff is really hard to take to heart. it's not like i don't agree with it, it's just tough to accept as my own, and take responsibility for my faith. theosis is by far the hardest thing for me to even start trying to do. if you all have advice, i'd gladly take it.

 

[Jacob4707]

well i am not baptized nor catechized into the Orthodox Church, but i have been an inquirer for the past 3 or so months. I got a little bored with the cheap grace that my former church raised me on. i also got bored of mainstream/modern Christian thought and how post-modernism seeped into Christian theology and translation of the scriptures. i am just worried about the human tendency of depending a ton on tradition and losing the love towards Christ that every Christian should have, so it's hard for me to go any further. i don't even feel like i can venerate icons without feeling like i am doing something wrong. though i do understand the purpose of icons, and know where my heart needs to be when venerating them, i just can't seem to get to that place. and a lot of other stuff is really hard to take to heart. it's not like i don't agree with it, it's just tough to accept as my own, and take responsibility for my faith. theosis is by far the hardest thing for me to even start trying to do. if you all have advice, i'd gladly take it.

Pray and take it slowly and don't lose heart. Keep Christ central. It took me over 2 years of regular study, attendance and dealing with similar issues for me to be able to say "yes" to becoming Orthodox.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

well i am not baptized nor catechized into the Orthodox Church, but i have been an inquirer for the past 3 or so months. I got a little bored with the cheap grace that my former church raised me on. i also got bored of mainstream/modern Christian thought and how post-modernism seeped into Christian theology and translation of the scriptures. i am just worried about the human tendency of depending a ton on tradition and losing the love towards Christ that every Christian should have, so it's hard for me to go any further. i don't even feel like i can venerate icons without feeling like i am doing something wrong. though i do understand the purpose of icons, and know where my heart needs to be when venerating them, i just can't seem to get to that place. and a lot of other stuff is really hard to take to heart. it's not like i don't agree with it, it's just tough to accept as my own, and take responsibility for my faith. theosis is by far the hardest thing for me to even start trying to do. if you all have advice, i'd gladly take it.

Hi, mophed. I bolded the part that I want to respond to. Trust me - I was Baptist for 37 years - you don't need to worry about losing love for Christ in Orthodoxy. Oh my - it's completely the other way around, I've found. Traditions don't get in the way, they only help us, once we understand their purpose.

As far as the rest - being able to venerate icons, etc - don't do anything you don't feel comfortable doing. Don't try to force something. As Jakob said - take it slow and easy. Orthodoxy is Truth, of that I'm sure, but that doesn't mean we can just forget everything we've been taught and all of a sudden accept everything the Church teaches. It's a process - sometimes a long process. But it's worth it! May God bless and guide you.

Mary

 

[mophed20]

thank you guys for the advice. it may have been small to you, but it was big to me. i have felt like i need to rush into this, and venerate icons and all the orthodox stuff. but it's good to know that i shouldn't do that. i have a lot of learning, and growing and repentance to do. thanks guys!

David

 

[ArmyMatt]

I was born and raised as an Episcopalian from a very Episcopal family on my mother's side (dad was raised Methodist but converted when he married my mom).

Openly gay bishops did not sit well with me so I knew that I had to get out of the Church. What got me even worse was that no one was saying anything about any moral implications that this might have on the faithful.

When I came to Penn State, I bounced around between churches and fellowships, even going so far as to consider Mormonism and Unitarianism, and ultimately settled down with a Pentacostal group known as Veritas.

Everyone who goes to PSU will have at least one class in the Willard Building. Standing outside the Willard Building is a guy called the Willard preacher, who preaches Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Every Monday called Protestant Monday where he challanges Protestants on their beliefs. He challanged mine on Sola Scriptura and Apostolic succession. The more I tried to prove him wrong, the more I realized Orthodoxy was the True Church of Jesus Christ.

After a few months of debate and discussion with him, I came to my first OCF, then to church a month after that. One month later I was a catechumen, and 2006's Pascha I came into the Church. The rest is history, and I have loved it ever since. The intensity alone is staggering.

 

[NyssaTheHobbit]

Wow--so street preachers really can work!

 

[jckstraw72]

ol Willard Preacher got me too!

 

[ThomasAugustus]

Through much deliberation and following a great deal of misguided direction i found that an all encompassing and tolerant love was the way forward.

 

[Michael G]

I was brought up Missouri Synod Lutheran and my husband was Roman Catholic. He never liked his faith so we we're occasionally attending the Lutheran church, but we didn't care for it either. We felt our small children needed to go, so we went for them. My husbands best friend married an Orthodox girl and he converted to Orthodoxy. He sent books to my husband to read. He read them and knew he had to go to an Orthodox Liturgy, but I said no because from the way he was describing this faith to me and their traditions, I didn't think this Irish girl would fit in. He was not going to go without his whole family. So about three years went by and I was still dragging him to the Lutheran church. Then my dad became ill with melanoma cancer and died very quickly. When I asked my Lutheran pastor where my dad was, he said, "your father is either sleeping until Christ comes again or since he was a good Christian man he is in heaven". My pastor's answer did not satisfy me. So I asked my husband if I could read one of his Orthodox books. He had me read, Conversations With Protestant Sectarians, by Kallistos Ware. I read this book and I can honestly say I was scared into the faith. That very next Sunday we visited the closest Orthodox church, 45 minutes from our home. We weren't there more than maybe 20 minutes and we both looked at each other and smiled. At that moment we knew we were finally home. We talked to the priest, Fr. David, and we were happy with all of his answers to our questions. We've been going to the same church for 11 years. A lot of driving back and forth, but we don't mind at all. We have never once woken up on a Sunday and not wanted to make that drive. Our children have never told us that they don't want to go to church (unless they are sick). Our son wants to be a priest and our daughter can't wait to meet an Orthodox boy who will sweep her off her feet. God has given us a very blessed life. Sometimes I wonder if I had to lose my dad to open my eyes to Orthodoxy? I believe I did! I miss my dad so much. I feel though if he wouldn't have died, I wouldn't have received the unfulfilled answers from the Lutheran pastor. So, because of that, now we have a chance at salvation. Thanks be to God!

Often God will do something in our lives like take a loved one from us in order to open our eyes to his will. He is kind of bittersweet like that.

 

[hedgehog51]

Me I went to all kind of churches before I found the Orthodox,
and I'm glad now I didn't give up the search. I have finally found home.

 

[Philothei]

Welcome Hedgehog!!

Welcome also to TAW
God bless,
Philothei

 

[disasm]

Hey everyone. This is going to be really long, but I hope it inspires someone...

So here is my story...

Part I - The Early Years

I grew up Methodist. We went to church every Sunday, I was a part of
Sunday School, and my dad was in the air force, so we moved a lot. I
was the kid no one liked in Sunday School because I had all the
answers. I would memorize bible verses, would always know the answers
to the simple watered down questions, and had read through my picture
bible probably at least 10 times. The first real change in my life was
when I finished second grade and received my first non-picture bible.
We were getting ready to move from Vegas to Tucson, and the church
wanted to give me a bible even though I wasn't completing third grade.
The bible I received was the KJV translation, and I loved that bible.
I would read the stuff I could understand whenever I had the chance.

So then we moved to Arizona, and we found another methodist church. I
always liked wearing my best clothes to church. Suits and ties were
common for me. So in this new church, even though we followed a
curriculum, the Sunday School teachers were much more flexible with
what we talked about. This allowed me to finally get away from the
watered down stories and into the meat of scripture. I loved reading
my KJV bible in these Sunday School classes, and learned a lot. I
received another bible, the NRSV version, and at the request of my
teachers/peers I started reading it at Sunday School, and eventually I
gave up on my KJV bible and it sat on the shelf. I continued to be a
devout Methodist kid, and entered the confirmation class as soon as I
could. I learned about the basics of what we believed, and about the
book of acts and the start of the church. This really intrigued me,
and I got confirmed in the Methodist Church at twelve I think it was.

So, in comes middle school. I still went to church, but we were
changing pastors so often, and I really learned to dislike this change
happening all the time. It seemed every time a new pastor came, the
message was changed ever so slightly. Church numbers started going
down, and except when the oldest pastor was preaching, I hated
listening to the sermons, and my parents gave me the choice to
continue going or not, so my church going slowed down drastically.

I got involved with some friends of my sister's friends, and we had
good times, riding BMX bikes and doing jumps. One of the new kids I
was hanging out with was big on "spiritual" experiences. We did things
like "light as a feather, stiff as a board", and he eventually talked
us into doing a seance where we were initiated by burning ourselves
with matches, of which, some of the physical scars lasted for months.
We lit candles and spoke to "spiritual beings" of which I am now
convinced were certainly demons. Well, this lasted for a week, and
then my mom was asking why me and my sisters had these random burns, I
told her, and we all went to church that week. Well, my favorite
pastor was talking in the sermon, and the sermon was about joy in our
lives being stuck in a vessel and unable to escape, and we needed to
let that joy spill over into our lives. This sermon really touched me,
and I repented right away for my turning away from God. This was a
huge turning point in my life. I got involved with our upcoming "Youth
Band" and started going to Sunday School every week, and even did the
weekly bible studies. I learned everything I could about Christ and
his Church.

Around this same time, High School was starting, and I got involved in
Marching Band. My best friend Josh Richeson, the lead trumpet player,
helped me get caught up with marching, since I started school a week
late due to Philmont Boy Scout Ranch backpacking trip I went on.
Anyways, Josh and I formed a solid bond as friends, and we started to
do things outside of Band as well. Come sophomore year, after school
everyday we would go to his house and lift weights. Well, Josh was
also a mormon, which gave a perfect opportunity to talk to each other
about our different beliefs, and we both helped each other grow, as
odd as it sounds.

So, this continued till the end of high school, and Josh and I decided
to start a rock band. We did a couple of gigs, and decided we wanted
to make it big, so we decided to move to PA. I would go right away,
and he would come a year later because he was still locked into a
lease. So, two weeks later, my dad is hauling my truck with his truck
from AZ to PA, and we end up in Bellefonte, just north of State
College. My cousin Steve, moved from Michigan, and he wasn't very
religious at all, and I started to lax myself. My friend Jeff, the drum
major from marching band as well as a good friend and member in the
band I started, that upcoming spring, and he helped me turn my life
around a little bit. He grew up in a non-denominational church, and
knew scripture very well. When he left a month later, I promised him I
would find a church in the area and start going. Thus, began my
protestant search for truth...

 

[SaintPhotios]

Because I was raised with no denominational bias (skipped around from Baptist to Nazerene to whatever was convenient), I didn't really have a starting place. After I sowed my wild oats, I discovered the love of theology when I was about 15 -- a dangerous passion if unharnessed, but was my portal into my Christian search for truth. With some influence from a local sect and some members of my family, I began to immerse myself into Calvinistic theology in the classical Reformed school of thought best represented by Van Til, Bahnsen, Rushdoony, etc.. After spending two years in a Reformed Presbyterian Church (devoutly Calvinistic), a former Calvinist friend of mine introduced me to Church Fathers.

Because of our Western biases, we were falsely convinced of traditional Roman Catholicism via the early Church Fathers. We realized the corrupt state of the Roman Catholic Church, so we rejected Vatican II and became involved with sedevacantism (rejecting the Papacy of current Popes due to heresy = the Papal throne was vacant).

However, around the end of last year, my Roman Catholic friend and I read into the filioque controversy sparked by St. Photios of Constantinople and the Great Schism. After reading a little more deeply into the Church Fathers, it was clear that they did not view the Pope as head of the Church, and also the West had an entirely skewed view of the Trinity which led to all of their other innovation contrary to Tradition. So this caused us to leave Roman Catholicism and embrace Orthodoxy.

 

[Dorothea]

My table had been staffed by myself and a devout Catholic woman. On the walk back from the organization fair, she and I discussed religion, and she offered to get me in touch with a Catholic priest. I got her priest's name and number too. But when I finally got up the nerve to call up the priest that Friday, at the appointed time she'd given me... there was no answer. 'How strange is that,' I thought. 'Well, I still have this Orthodox thing to go to on Monday. I guess I'll do that.'

To be continued...

Matrona, that was an interesting read! I hope to get through the rest of this thread and read the rest of your exciting journey to Orthodoxy.

Hello, everyone,

I'm new here. I've been on another religion forum, but I felt I needed to join an Orthodox forum and have some fellowship with my fellow Orthodox, as I was the only Orthodox (Greek Orthodox for me) in the forum.

Anyway, I have been a Greek Orthodox since I was a baby. I was born and baptized in a Greek Orthodox Church. My mother is Greek, and my father is American. He was in the Air Force for 30 years, and he met my mother while stationed in Greece at the time. His faith was Presbyterian until about 10 years ago.

I didn't really grow up in church. I went a handful of times to a Greek Church while in Greece visiting family, and then I went to Sunday school in some Christian grade school for a couple weeks, and also once to a protestant church on one of the Air Force bases we lived on at the time. I knew the traditions of crossing yourself and what to do when going up for Communion, and I knew of God and Christ, his son. I didn't, however, know anything about what the Bible said, what God's words were in the OT or the NT, other than the 10 Commandments and Christ dying on the Cross for our sins. Really, my faith wasn't discussed much at all. It was just something we did once and a while by going to Church.

It wasn't until my mid 20s that I wanted to get back into my church. I always had a relationship with God, but it was kind of a selfish one. You know, pray for what you want, not giving thanks and such. So, anyhow, about 3 or 4 years before I became interested in learning more about my faith, my sister had gotten involved in an Antiochian church down in Louisiana where she and her family live. Her husband is from there. Her husband's family is Southern Baptist. He ended up converting to Orthodoxy a couple years after they married. This didn't go too well with my sister's in-laws. Her father-in-law didn't go to either of her daugther's baptisms, but her MIL did.

I went off on a tangent kinda there. Ok, back on track here, I was having a hard time with life in my early to mid 20s in regards to relationships and all, and finally I let go and just prayed to God that whatever He wanted, I'd do. So, I ended up leaving the state I was in at the time and moving to where my parents had moved a year before to be close to my sister and her children. Not more than 6 months later, I met my soon-to-be husband there. Coincidentally, once I decided to let go of a fruitless relationship and make this move, everything flowed so smoothly. That's how I know that's what I was supposed to do. So, I met my husband. Turns out he'd been searching 1/2 of his life for something he felt was missing in all the churches he'd gone to growing up. He grew up mainly in a United Church of Christ, and then his mother went through the evangelical/born-again experience and became quite zealous about it, and dragged him to a couple other churches. One really got him very uncomfortable and never went back. In all the churches he went to....and he went to even a Synogogue and Temple when he got to his late teens....there was always something missing...questions that couldn't be answered....something missing in the worshipping of God. Then, we went on a few dates, and on our third date, I believe it was, he went to my church after I'd gone to his on the date before. I was open to whatever he was going to at the time. Although the church he was in at the time...Southern Baptist because he was in Louisiana and couldn't find a UCC that was like his back home in PA, ended up there, and the people were extremely welcoming and nice there, I felt it was very empty of Holiness, worship, tradition and all that I had started to re-experience in my Greek and the Antiochian Church I started going to with my sister once I was there. He said he'd come to mine and see what it was like. The congregation was just starting out and just in a rented building at the time. It didn't matter. 10 minutes into the Liturgy, my husband was in love and felt at home. So, anyway, I went with him and my dad to catechism and learned more about my faith. My dad at the same time was coming into the Orthodox Church, and my mom was learning a lot about the rituals and such she didn't know what they meant before. So, on the same day...Ephiphany in 1997, my dad was chrismated and baptized (for the first time baptized) and my husband was chrismated (we weren't married yet...a couple more months). It was a beautiful experience. So, my husband helped bring me back to my church, and we've been on our Orthodox journey together ever since.

 

[Dorothea]

I am enjoying everyone's conversion stories! Such inspiration!!

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Matrona, that was an interesting read! I hope to get through the rest of this thread and read the rest of your exciting journey to Orthodoxy.

Hello, everyone,

I'm new here. I've been on another religion forum, but I felt I needed to join an Orthodox forum and have some fellowship with my fellow Orthodox, as I was the only Orthodox (Greek Orthodox for me) in the forum.

Anyway, I have been a Greek Orthodox since I was a baby. I was born and baptized in a Greek Orthodox Church. My mother is Greek, and my father is American. He was in the Air Force for 30 years, and he met my mother while stationed in Greece at the time. His faith was Presbyterian until about 10 years ago.

I didn't really grow up in church. I went a handful of times to a Greek Church while in Greece visiting family, and then I went to Sunday school in some Christian grade school for a couple weeks, and also once to a protestant church on one of the Air Force bases we lived on at the time. I knew the traditions of crossing yourself and what to do when going up for Communion, and I knew of God and Christ, his son. I didn't, however, know anything about what the Bible said, what God's words were in the OT or the NT, other than the 10 Commandments and Christ dying on the Cross for our sins. Really, my faith wasn't discussed much at all. It was just something we did once and a while by going to Church.

It wasn't until my mid 20s that I wanted to get back into my church. I always had a relationship with God, but it was kind of a selfish one. You know, pray for what you want, not giving thanks and such. So, anyhow, about 3 or 4 years before I became interested in learning more about my faith, my sister had gotten involved in an Antiochian church down in Louisiana where she and her family live. Her husband is from there. Her husband's family is Southern Baptist. He ended up converting to Orthodoxy a couple years after they married. This didn't go too well with my sister's in-laws. Her father-in-law didn't go to either of her daugther's baptisms, but her MIL did.

I went off on a tangent kinda there. Ok, back on track here, I was having a hard time with life in my early to mid 20s in regards to relationships and all, and finally I let go and just prayed to God that whatever He wanted, I'd do. So, I ended up leaving the state I was in at the time and moving to where my parents had moved a year before to be close to my sister and her children. Not more than 6 months later, I met my soon-to-be husband there. Coincidentally, once I decided to let go of a fruitless relationship and make this move, everything flowed so smoothly. That's how I know that's what I was supposed to do. So, I met my husband. Turns out he'd been searching 1/2 of his life for something he felt was missing in all the churches he'd gone to growing up. He grew up mainly in a United Church of Christ, and then his mother went through the evangelical/born-again experience and became quite zealous about it, and dragged him to a couple other churches. One really got him very uncomfortable and never went back. In all the churches he went to....and he went to even a Synogogue and Temple when he got to his late teens....there was always something missing...questions that couldn't be answered....something missing in the worshipping of God. Then, we went on a few dates, and on our third date, I believe it was, he went to my church after I'd gone to his on the date before. I was open to whatever he was going to at the time. Although the church he was in at the time...Southern Baptist because he was in Louisiana and couldn't find a UCC that was like his back home in PA, ended up there, and the people were extremely welcoming and nice there, I felt it was very empty of Holiness, worship, tradition and all that I had started to re-experience in my Greek and the Antiochian Church I started going to with my sister once I was there. He said he'd come to mine and see what it was like. The congregation was just starting out and just in a rented building at the time. It didn't matter. 10 minutes into the Liturgy, my husband was in love and felt at home. So, anyway, I went with him and my dad to catechism and learned more about my faith. My dad at the same time was coming into the Orthodox Church, and my mom was learning a lot about the rituals and such she didn't know what they meant before. So, on the same day...Ephiphany in 1997, my dad was chrismated and baptized (for the first time baptized) and my husband was chrismated (we weren't married yet...a couple more months). It was a beautiful experience. So, my husband helped bring me back to my church, and we've been on our Orthodox journey together ever since.

That's a great story, Dorothea! Welcome to TAW!


Mary

 

[Dorothea]

That's a great story, Dorothea! Welcome to TAW!


Mary

Thanks for the warm welcome!

 

[disasm]

Okay, here's the second part of my story.

Part II - Beginnings of a search for truth

I met up with my cousin Cathy at a Memorial Day Celebration at the Gate's Cabin, and she talked me into coming to a CMA church. I went a couple weeks later, and it was the most energetic thing I had ever seen. The last couple of years in Arizona, the church I went to started to become contemporary, but it was nothing like this. Everyone had their hands reaching to the sky, clapping along, distorted electric guitars, drums you could hear a mile down the road, and I liked it being in a band and all. It was like a rock concert for God. This led me to start buying every Christian Rock CD I could get my hands on. I also was reading my NIV bible I got my Senior Year of High School like crazy during this time. But something just didn't fit. I thought it was because I wasn't getting involved enough, so I volunteered with the Youth Group at this church over the summer. A couple friends of mine went to Guatamala and came back telling me stories of laying of hands and healing of broken bones and it was just too much. I was also struggling with temptation and sin at this time, and everyone told me I didn't read my bible and pray enough, so I read more and prayed more, and the temptation only grew stronger the more I prayed. Things just weren't matching up, and I didn't know why... So, I left and didn't go to church again for a while.

So, Josh shows up in November, and we start working on building the band. His fiance was visiting with us, and they broke up so she took a bus back to Arizona. Both of us didn't care about religion at the time. We just wanted to start the band. However; he gave me late notice when he was moving, so I had already purchased a plane ticket to Arizona to visit my family over Christmas for a couple weeks.

While I was in Arizona, I spent a lot of time with my friend Jeff talking about church and other problems I was having. I also spent a good bit of time talking to my old friends and the two pastors at the methodist church. The one, Billy Still, was an amazing speaker, and spoke from the heart. He really touched me and after talking to Angie, the other pastor, I decided I needed to find a good Methodist Church in the area when I got back into PA. I returned to PA after New Years, and came home to my friend Josh that had religious books, tapes and website printouts all over the house. I was rather in shock, and he told me he felt he was being called to return to the mormon church. I told him I wanted to look into some of the methodist churches on campus, and we decided to both go to together so we wouldn't feel so out of place. The church I picked out was St. Pauls, and the Wesley Center had a service called open door listed on their website for college students. We went there and I absolutely loved it. It was contemporary, but not to the extreme of the CMA church I went to. The group was very welcoming and I got involved in the band, as well as their Thursday bible study.

The following week I went with Josh to the LDS church and I just had a bad feeling deep in my stomach. The singing sounded amazing, but I knew something just wasn't right. Josh also invited the missionaries over for dinner, and over this couple of months he convinved me the Ecumenical Councils were not Christian, and I should reject them, but I still remained Methodist, I just didn't agree with the Creeds, rationalizing they were catholic fabrications. Anyways, I read ever Christian book I could get my hands on. Everything from the Divine Romance, to Wild at Heart. Everything was going perfect for me. I felt I was spiritually at home. Josh eventually left for Idaho to return to his family and got married in the temple at Idaho Falls in Summer of 2005.

So, change started to happen in the fellowship. Three major changes to be precise. The one was graduation. My friend Aaron was graduating and moving away. He was a strong encourager of my faith, and had loaned me most of the books I had read. The second change was I began going to Penn State with a Computer Engineering Major. And the third and most striking requires a bit of background. The summer before I joined Wesley, the Student Pastor had been fired, and that first semester we ran the show. Students had keys to get in. We worshipped whenever we felt like it. We did things the way we wanted, but that summer, they hired a new Student Pastor. His name was Tyson, and boy did he have changes in store. I tried to go with the changes, even joined his bible study on Deitrich Bohnhoffer, which was absolutely amazing, but some of the changes were just too much for me. We lost our focus on community outreach, and a few political struggles really made it not feel it was where I wanted to be any more. I still maintained strong relationships with my friends, especially my friend Josh, who grew up Lutheran, but I started to split away from Wesley after that first semester of school.

 

[Jacob4707]

All right, you've got me biting my nails for Part III.

DON'T KEEP US IN SUSPENSE!!!

A couple friends of mine went to Guatamala and came back telling me stories of laying of hands and healing of broken bones and it was just too much.

So, what did you make of the above? Why did you react against it (or so it seems)?

 

[disasm]

All right, you've got me biting my nails for Part III.

DON'T KEEP US IN SUSPENSE!!!



So, what did you make of the above? Why did you react against it (or so it seems)?

Sorry, for the suspense, I'll get the next part up soon. My perspective now is that miracles do happen, but the context of the background I had with being a conservative Methodist, that the only miracles that happened, happened through human means or randomly. We never had healing services, where people were instantly healed. A modern miracle to me at the time was someone being healed over time where doctors couldn't explain how it happened. I don't know why I reacted the way I did, but at the time I had a hard time grasping it. Especially since another friend that went on the same trip came back who was Methodist, didn't see any miraculous healing when he was there led me to believe they were making it up.