Rilian said:
i just want to say thank you for saying that Rilian. i don't know what the topic was aiming at, but that was something refreshing for me at this time of my life. thank you again
God Bless you! <><
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Conversions to Orthodoxy
- Thread starter Matrona
- Start date
i just want to say thank you for saying that Rilian. i don't know what the topic was aiming at, but that was something refreshing for me at this time of my life. thank you again
God Bless you! <><
K
Kolya
Guest
Thanks for your story Jason. I still would share mine, but I also came from an 'unusual' Christian denomination, I didn't think it would make sense to most of the converts here. But now you've forced me to re-think that.
God bless you, and many years,
Kolya
God bless you, and many years,
Kolya
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K
Kolya
Guest
Christ Is Risen!!!
I was born into a very loving Christian home. My formative years were almost idyllic. I had plenty of clean, fun loving playmates, and my mom and dad had a loving committed relationship. I learned to pray at an early age at my mothers knee, and I was read a bible story or an inspirational story at bed time most nights. We went to church regularly every week from before I could remember. I was taught to memorize bible texts, and learned that Jesus loved me, and if I was good, I would go to heaven.
So what was wrong? I had been born into the Seventh-Day Adventist church. My grand father had been one of that Churchs foremost Evangelists of the early 20th century in South Africa, and my father was a Pastor, Church Administrator, and Editor and Translator for the SDAs in Cape Town, South Africa.
I attended church owned schools, and all my friends were in that church. I was living in a different world, where the teachings of the church dictated your life style, and we were warned not to associate with people in the world because that would corrupt us, and we would fall away from Jesus, and be lost.
So what makes the SDA church different? Its very subtle and I hardly know where to begin. The most obvious characteristic of the SDAs is that they worship on Saturday, instead of Sunday. But for those of you who are unfamiliar with this branch of Christianity, let me briefly tell you what they believe. They have a sort of creed that they call the '27 Fundamentals', which I will only attempt to summarize below. Of course all their beliefs can be supported by proof texts. But anything in the Bible that disagrees with any of their doctrine they either ignore or give a plausible twist to suit their needs.
This is a short summary of their beliefs:-
1) Sola Scriptura (But more on that in point 9)
2) The Trinity (Though they have a Filoqueial slant on the Holy Spirit)
3) Literal Creation Week
4) The Ten Commandments with great emphasis on the fourth The Sabbath
5) A Universal Church (Trying to imitate the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church)
6) Baptism by Immersion (Though the symbolism differs from Orthodoxy)
7) A Remnant called out by God before the Second Coming.
8) The Lords Supper using Grape Juice accompanied by foot washing.
9) The Gift Of Prophesy This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.* (This is what basically keeps the church Pure. If the Bible disagrees with what Mrs. White wrote, then Mrs. Whites word takes precedence. They have replaced the Early Fathers with this Prophet.
10) The Investigative Judgment a doctrine that teaches Jesus began to judge the dead in 1844, and will continue till He has judged the living, then He will return.
11) Soul Sleep the dead are unconscious and know nothing until the Resurrection.
12) The imminent Return of Christ.
13) The Millennium 1000 years that the Redeemed spend in Heaven until the Second Resurrection of the wicked when they are judged and sent to their punishment. (This notion was discarded by the 2nd Ecumenical Council in Nicea.)
14) The New Earth - the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven after this world is consumed by fire and recreated the eternal home of the saved.
The theologians among you may take the time to name all the heresys depicted above. But as I said, its very subtle, and Mrs. White plays a major role in dictating church dogma. According to her writings its a SIN to:
drink any caffinated beverage, (tea, coffee, coke), to drink ANY alcohol, to eat dairy products, to wear make-up or jewelry, to Break the Sabbath (Though you cant get a firm definition of that from anyone), to eat unclean meat (Pork, Shellfish, etc). And she expounds on many other factors that affect ones whole life.
Then of course I have not explained the biggest fear to SDAs the Roman Catholic Church. They believe that the Pope is THE anti-christ, and before the Second Coming, laws will be passed that will force everyone to worship on Sunday and they will be forbidden to worship on Sabbath.
That is the background that I come from. How did I get out of that belief system that had kept me captive for 48 years? You may well ask, because I still am amazed myself. God works in Mysterious ways. I was a very staunch Seventh-day Adventist, and I could never conceive how a person who had been a Sabbath / Commandment keeping SDA could turn their back on the church and leave. I always imagined that they had lost touch with the Lord, and went out into the world, a term that SDAs use to describe anything outside their church.
In 1998 the Internet entered my life, and my world perspective was radically changed. Here for the first time were libraries and documents and books and ideas that I had never been exposed to. I was at first horrified to find sites dedicated to exposing the errors of Mrs. White. But I decided to keep an open mind, and if they were wrong, I would be none the worse off. But what if they were right? Then I would be judged for not rejecting error. So I studied and read, and slowly my views on the church I was born into began to change.
At first I stayed in the church, thinking I could live a right life and still be a member. But the more research I did, the more doctrinal errors I found. I came to the conclusion I could not be a hypocrite and stay with the Organization. One by one the pillars fell. First, Mrs. White, then others followed. Finally, the hardest to swallow, Sabbath Keeping. But I did not give up on Jesus. His Spirit kept speaking to me, and He continued to open new doors of real truth. I never left because I had become entangled with an argument with anyone. I had no bitter grievances with the Church or Clergy, and had made no enemies. I had simply studied my way out of their doctrines, and could not with a clear conscience continue to attend and commune with them. And after I finally quit attending that church, nobody ever came to find out why I did not attend any more.
When I found myself outside of an organized church in the storm of the world, I did not know which way to go. I had been so indoctrinated about the Apostate churches, I was afraid of everything. But the truth of the matter is, the Bible tells us to test everything against the Word, and if it is not in accordance to it, reject it. This is what I did.
My first idea was to study to find what the original early church was like, and for a time I was involved in Home Church or Cell Churches as they are also known. This was after all what the Apostles had to resort to after being cast out of the Synagogues. But Seraphimas Russian Spirit finally played a part in choosing the Church Home I needed.
We were attending the Russian Orthodox Church, and Seraphima was very happy to be there. But I of course had my reservations about Theotokos, Icons, Saints, etc. (All that can be very intimidating to an ex-SDA it smacks too much of Roman Catholicism.) But the more I studied Orthodox Christianity, I came to the conclusion that this was the same Church Christ started and left His disciples to carry on with after Pentecost. It was the Pure, unadulterated Word of Truth.
Another thing that I took into consideration was that of persecution and martyrdom. If one reads the accounts of the millions persecuted and martyred under communism in the 20th century, one asks oneself why. And the only conclusion I could come to was that the devil hated them! And if the devil hates something, it must be that they belong to God. That is what really helped me to decide.
There is so much more I could tell you, but this will become a book. Seraphima and I were Chrismated together on Palm Sunday last year. The date was 04/04/04 how could I ever forget that? We were Crowned in the Church Marriage Ceremony on February 13 this year, one day after our seventh anniversary. We had finally come Home.
* From the Fundamental Beliefs No 17 : The Gift of Prophecy
XB!
Kolya
I was born into a very loving Christian home. My formative years were almost idyllic. I had plenty of clean, fun loving playmates, and my mom and dad had a loving committed relationship. I learned to pray at an early age at my mothers knee, and I was read a bible story or an inspirational story at bed time most nights. We went to church regularly every week from before I could remember. I was taught to memorize bible texts, and learned that Jesus loved me, and if I was good, I would go to heaven.
So what was wrong? I had been born into the Seventh-Day Adventist church. My grand father had been one of that Churchs foremost Evangelists of the early 20th century in South Africa, and my father was a Pastor, Church Administrator, and Editor and Translator for the SDAs in Cape Town, South Africa.
I attended church owned schools, and all my friends were in that church. I was living in a different world, where the teachings of the church dictated your life style, and we were warned not to associate with people in the world because that would corrupt us, and we would fall away from Jesus, and be lost.
So what makes the SDA church different? Its very subtle and I hardly know where to begin. The most obvious characteristic of the SDAs is that they worship on Saturday, instead of Sunday. But for those of you who are unfamiliar with this branch of Christianity, let me briefly tell you what they believe. They have a sort of creed that they call the '27 Fundamentals', which I will only attempt to summarize below. Of course all their beliefs can be supported by proof texts. But anything in the Bible that disagrees with any of their doctrine they either ignore or give a plausible twist to suit their needs.
This is a short summary of their beliefs:-
1) Sola Scriptura (But more on that in point 9)
2) The Trinity (Though they have a Filoqueial slant on the Holy Spirit)
3) Literal Creation Week
4) The Ten Commandments with great emphasis on the fourth The Sabbath
5) A Universal Church (Trying to imitate the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church)
6) Baptism by Immersion (Though the symbolism differs from Orthodoxy)
7) A Remnant called out by God before the Second Coming.
8) The Lords Supper using Grape Juice accompanied by foot washing.
9) The Gift Of Prophesy This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.* (This is what basically keeps the church Pure. If the Bible disagrees with what Mrs. White wrote, then Mrs. Whites word takes precedence. They have replaced the Early Fathers with this Prophet.
10) The Investigative Judgment a doctrine that teaches Jesus began to judge the dead in 1844, and will continue till He has judged the living, then He will return.
11) Soul Sleep the dead are unconscious and know nothing until the Resurrection.
12) The imminent Return of Christ.
13) The Millennium 1000 years that the Redeemed spend in Heaven until the Second Resurrection of the wicked when they are judged and sent to their punishment. (This notion was discarded by the 2nd Ecumenical Council in Nicea.)
14) The New Earth - the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven after this world is consumed by fire and recreated the eternal home of the saved.
The theologians among you may take the time to name all the heresys depicted above. But as I said, its very subtle, and Mrs. White plays a major role in dictating church dogma. According to her writings its a SIN to:
drink any caffinated beverage, (tea, coffee, coke), to drink ANY alcohol, to eat dairy products, to wear make-up or jewelry, to Break the Sabbath (Though you cant get a firm definition of that from anyone), to eat unclean meat (Pork, Shellfish, etc). And she expounds on many other factors that affect ones whole life.
Then of course I have not explained the biggest fear to SDAs the Roman Catholic Church. They believe that the Pope is THE anti-christ, and before the Second Coming, laws will be passed that will force everyone to worship on Sunday and they will be forbidden to worship on Sabbath.
That is the background that I come from. How did I get out of that belief system that had kept me captive for 48 years? You may well ask, because I still am amazed myself. God works in Mysterious ways. I was a very staunch Seventh-day Adventist, and I could never conceive how a person who had been a Sabbath / Commandment keeping SDA could turn their back on the church and leave. I always imagined that they had lost touch with the Lord, and went out into the world, a term that SDAs use to describe anything outside their church.
In 1998 the Internet entered my life, and my world perspective was radically changed. Here for the first time were libraries and documents and books and ideas that I had never been exposed to. I was at first horrified to find sites dedicated to exposing the errors of Mrs. White. But I decided to keep an open mind, and if they were wrong, I would be none the worse off. But what if they were right? Then I would be judged for not rejecting error. So I studied and read, and slowly my views on the church I was born into began to change.
At first I stayed in the church, thinking I could live a right life and still be a member. But the more research I did, the more doctrinal errors I found. I came to the conclusion I could not be a hypocrite and stay with the Organization. One by one the pillars fell. First, Mrs. White, then others followed. Finally, the hardest to swallow, Sabbath Keeping. But I did not give up on Jesus. His Spirit kept speaking to me, and He continued to open new doors of real truth. I never left because I had become entangled with an argument with anyone. I had no bitter grievances with the Church or Clergy, and had made no enemies. I had simply studied my way out of their doctrines, and could not with a clear conscience continue to attend and commune with them. And after I finally quit attending that church, nobody ever came to find out why I did not attend any more.
When I found myself outside of an organized church in the storm of the world, I did not know which way to go. I had been so indoctrinated about the Apostate churches, I was afraid of everything. But the truth of the matter is, the Bible tells us to test everything against the Word, and if it is not in accordance to it, reject it. This is what I did.
My first idea was to study to find what the original early church was like, and for a time I was involved in Home Church or Cell Churches as they are also known. This was after all what the Apostles had to resort to after being cast out of the Synagogues. But Seraphimas Russian Spirit finally played a part in choosing the Church Home I needed.
We were attending the Russian Orthodox Church, and Seraphima was very happy to be there. But I of course had my reservations about Theotokos, Icons, Saints, etc. (All that can be very intimidating to an ex-SDA it smacks too much of Roman Catholicism.) But the more I studied Orthodox Christianity, I came to the conclusion that this was the same Church Christ started and left His disciples to carry on with after Pentecost. It was the Pure, unadulterated Word of Truth.
Another thing that I took into consideration was that of persecution and martyrdom. If one reads the accounts of the millions persecuted and martyred under communism in the 20th century, one asks oneself why. And the only conclusion I could come to was that the devil hated them! And if the devil hates something, it must be that they belong to God. That is what really helped me to decide.
There is so much more I could tell you, but this will become a book. Seraphima and I were Chrismated together on Palm Sunday last year. The date was 04/04/04 how could I ever forget that? We were Crowned in the Church Marriage Ceremony on February 13 this year, one day after our seventh anniversary. We had finally come Home.
* From the Fundamental Beliefs No 17 : The Gift of Prophecy
XB!
Kolya
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Jason of Wyoming
Well-Known Member
Koyla,
Amazing how similar our stories really are. Mormonism and Seventh-Day Adventists are kindred faiths in many ways.
I know something of your former faith, as a Mormon missionary I visited White's home in Northern California, and gave a brief lecture to students at Pacific Union College! I only had a run in with one SDA family, and they gave me this strange book called "Return to Pitcairn".
I had fun tearing that one apart, but I never spoke to the family again.
Amazing how similar our stories really are. Mormonism and Seventh-Day Adventists are kindred faiths in many ways.
I know something of your former faith, as a Mormon missionary I visited White's home in Northern California, and gave a brief lecture to students at Pacific Union College! I only had a run in with one SDA family, and they gave me this strange book called "Return to Pitcairn".
I had fun tearing that one apart, but I never spoke to the family again.
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Both Jason and Kolya, thank you.
Jason, I have studied Mormonism a lot... I did so when my friend was going to become a Mormon. A lot of what you said was very interesting for me, because I have always wondered what it would be like to make the transition from Mormonism to Orthodoxy. It's such a paradigm shift.
In IC XC,
Marjorie
Jason, I have studied Mormonism a lot... I did so when my friend was going to become a Mormon. A lot of what you said was very interesting for me, because I have always wondered what it would be like to make the transition from Mormonism to Orthodoxy. It's such a paradigm shift.
In IC XC,
Marjorie
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Jason of Wyoming
Well-Known Member
Marjorie,
There are some major differences between Mormonism and Orthodoxy. But at the same time, the similarities are spooky.
But, a counterfeit isn't much good unless it resembles the original.
There are some major differences between Mormonism and Orthodoxy. But at the same time, the similarities are spooky.
But, a counterfeit isn't much good unless it resembles the original.
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K
Kolya
Guest
Jason the Evangelist said:Koyla,
Amazing how similar our stories really are. Mormonism and Seventh-Day Adventists are kindred faiths in many ways.
Hi Jason, yes most other denominations always lump the Mormons, the JW's and the SDA's together.
Thankfully we're out of that now.Jason the Evangelist said:
You got to speak at PUC? Wow! But they are considered to be the "Liberal" college of the SDA's. As for Pitcairn, I don't know if you followed the news about 6 months ago, but there was a big scandal there as 7 of the Island's leaders were charged with sexual harrasment and rape. And that island was the 'Jewel' in the SDA's crown as the whole island was SDA - big deal - all 50 of them!
Marjorie said:
Your conversion was no less of a paradigm shift Marjorie!
In IC XC
Kolya
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Jason,
Exactly. A good example is the difference between Mormonism's view of becoming gods and Orthodoxy's...
True! That's why I like reading about these kind of conversions, perhaps even a little more than the evangelical-turned-Orthodox ones... because I know what it's like for a worldview to be changed so utterly like that.
In IC XC,
Marjorie
Exactly. A good example is the difference between Mormonism's view of becoming gods and Orthodoxy's...
Kolya said:Your conversion was no less of a paradigm shift Marjorie!
True! That's why I like reading about these kind of conversions, perhaps even a little more than the evangelical-turned-Orthodox ones... because I know what it's like for a worldview to be changed so utterly like that.
In IC XC,
Marjorie
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Jason of Wyoming
Well-Known Member
kolya said:
I didn't know that.
I did read that in the news. I didn't know they were SDA's.
Not exactly the Holy Mountain, eh?
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Jason of Wyoming
Well-Known Member
Hi and welcome to TAW!
I think many would agree that it was by the Grace of God that we are Orthodox today. I consider it the greatest blessing of my life.
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K
Kolya
Guest
Jason the Evangelist said:I didn't know that.
I did read that in the news. I didn't know they were SDA's.
Not exactly the Holy Mountain, eh?
Not Quite!!!
Hi Petronius, I also welcome you to TAW. And I second what Jason says. It IS the greatest blessing to have been shown the Orthodox way. God has been very Merciful.
XB!
Kolya
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Petronius
Senior Member
Hi and welcome to TAW!
I think many would agree that it was by the Grace of God that we are Orthodox today. I consider it the greatest blessing of my life.
As I mentioned before: I was born, grew up, educated, evolved in an Orthodox environment (although most of the time-til this moment- during the communist era) so I (and many like me) knew the House from inside.
But you see it from outside first and learned to see its splendor and now you make it be seen by people like me as well. Being inside one can not see the exterior...
I think many would agree that it was by the Grace of God that we are Orthodox today. I consider it the greatest blessing of my life.
As I mentioned before: I was born, grew up, educated, evolved in an Orthodox environment (although most of the time-til this moment- during the communist era) so I (and many like me) knew the House from inside.
But you see it from outside first and learned to see its splendor and now you make it be seen by people like me as well. Being inside one can not see the exterior...
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K
Kolya
Guest
Petronius said:
I think I know what you mean. And I'm glad to know someone from Romania too.
I'll be praying for you and your family. Please pray for us too when you light a candle.
My Patron Saint is New Holy Martyr Tsar Nikolai II.
XB!
Kolya
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