Conservative Men and Abortion

[Texas Lynn]

Originally posted by Gabriel
My observation here is that the order of your priorities is messed up.
If you were: Christian,Mom,Social Worker, Activist maybe you would have a more godly view on this subject.

Who says it's not?  My view is quite "Godly", thank you very much!  You seem like you wouldn't know what "Godly" was if it bit you on the nose.  But I see what you are doing;  you cannot beat me by logic so you have resorted to argentum ad hominiem.  A clever gambit at times, but not this time.  Sorry.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
  Why do you not jsut tell me instead of being so cryptic?  


Because you are choosing to not see the forest for the tree, avian one. 

why is it okay for a woman to have a choice as to whether to kill a child or not

BECAUSE we are not that woman.  Because whatever we do legislatively or policy-wise she must remain free and autonomous.  Control of one's body is absolute.  Any whining about the fetus is pure emotionalism irrelevant to that.  Is that direct enough for you?  Will you accept that and stop your harping and move on now?

 some evil woman who happened to not believe in abortion killed babies. 

Andrea Yates is quite relevant to the topic at hand.  She was an extremely religious woman and quite pronatalist, given her and Russell's rate of reproduction;  homeschooler, true believer, submissive housewife, and essentially under house arrest.  She was everything in antithesis of the liberated woman!

If outlawing abortion becomes the public policy, there will be Andrea Yateses in every subdivision if not every block.  Count on it.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
Okay so he is just a liar right?  Was He always one or just now is he? 

He found he could make more money by switching sides, just like Bill Murray, the former atheist now an evangelist. 

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by Texas Lynn
Then why all the sexist comments about women who make unwise sexual choices?

I understand that there exists a double standard between men and women regarding sex.  That is sexist.  But simply saying a woman made an unwise choice is not sexist (unless the male is not held to the same standards).

 

[IslandBreeze]

Originally posted by vegan
I understand that there exists a double standard between men and women regarding sex.  That is sexist.  But simply saying a woman made an unwise choice is not sexist (unless the male is not held to the same standards).

Feminists use her argument as one so they don't have to be held responsible for irresponsible sexual activity. ANY woman that chooses to have sex outside of a marriage relationship (between a man and a woman) is making an unwise choice.

There IS a double standard for men and women. Women lie about their sexual encounters to aliviate guilt. Men can't choose to keep a child, but if the woman decides to, the man is FORCED to pay child support.

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Texas Lynn
BECAUSE we are not that woman.  Because whatever we do legislatively or policy-wise she must remain free and autonomous.  Control of one's body is absolute. 

No it is not.  Can a woman legally do drugs? no.  Is suicide legal? no.  Clearly one does not have complete control of one's body.  Also who is completely free and autonomius?  We are not in the U.S. and never have been.  WE have put limits on our freedom so that we will not hurt others.  When we say that we are free what we mean is that we are free relatively speaking compared to other countries.  We do not live in an anarchy.  No one does or should have complete and total freedom. 

Any whining about the fetus is pure emotionalism irrelevant to that.  Is that direct enough for you?  Will you accept that and stop your harping and move on now? [/B]

I will move on but I have no idea as to where to go from here.  You have told me that the fetus is a child but trying to keep other people from killing that child is " pure emotionalism irrelevant" to the fact that the woman must be "free and autonomous."  What can I say that would be any more damaging to your position than what you have said yourself here?  You value a woman's freedom over a child's life.  WOW!  :o

Andrea Yates is quite relevant to the topic at hand.  She was an extremely religious woman and quite pronatalist, given her and Russell's rate of reproduction;  homeschooler, true believer, submissive housewife, and essentially under house arrest.  She was everything in antithesis of the liberated woman!

If outlawing abortion becomes the public policy, there will be Andrea Yateses in every subdivision if not every block.  Count on it.

Then why was this not occuring before Roe vs. Wade?  But again I am sure I can find many woman who killed their children who also believed in abortion.  It does not prove anything!

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by Cammie
ANY woman that chooses to have sex outside of a marriage relationship (between a man and a woman) is making an unwise choice.

Same for the men.  Men don't get a free pass, regardless of society's twisted views on gender and sex.  Any man who has sex outside of marriage is making an unwise choice. 

Originally posted by Cammie
There IS a double standard for men and women. Women lie about their sexual encounters to aliviate guilt. Men can't choose to keep a child, but if the woman decides to, the man is FORCED to pay child support.

It is a travesty that men don't share that same guilt. 

If the woman keeps the baby, the man SHOULD pay child support.  Of course this wouldnt happen if people wouldnt have sex outside of marriage.

It seems as if you are sticking up for the guys while condemning the ladies.  Correct me if I am mistaken. 

 

[IslandBreeze]

Originally posted by vegan
Same for the men.  Men don't get a free pass, regardless of society's twisted views on gender and sex.  Any man who has sex outside of marriage is making an unwise choice. 




It is a travesty that men don't share that same guilt. 

If the woman keeps the baby, the man SHOULD pay child support.  Of course this wouldnt happen if people wouldnt have sex outside of marriage.

It seems as if you are sticking up for the guys while condemning the ladies.  Correct me if I am mistaken. 

I don't mean to. If I am, I'm sorry. It just seems like guys get a bum rap all the time when it comes to sex and fatherhood. You were totally right when you said there's a double standard. Men AND women need to start being responsible about sex and children.

IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE A CHILD, DON'T HAVE SEX! It's just that simple.

 

[Clay]

Texas Lynn-are you for or against the death penalty? i can obviously tell you're a liberal so i would think you are against capital punishment. if you are, answer me this. how can you call on and justify the slaughter of a child (the most innocent amongst all of us, even yourself) and yet cry victim of a serial killer/rapist/murderer is given the death penalty?

how can you put a worthless value on a human life? that is a child, just like you were! who are you to say that the baby is worthless, an annoyance, an inconvience, and should be disposed of????

arent you glad your mother didnt "choose" to abort you?

 

[vegan]

Ugh. Is anyone sick at how certain people are so STRONGLY defending not only abortion, but the right of MINORS to have an abortion?

Texas Lynn - I am not trying to insult you, but I believe abortion is baby killing. You defending it so strongly is equal in my mind to a neo-nazi posting how Jews and cripples should be gassed. I really see no difference!

I guess abortion is a "relevant" topic for this forum since non-Christians are allowed, but seeing that most Christians believe abortion is child-murder, I am not sure why you havent been banned. In my mind you might as well be promoting child inappropriate content, rape, or ethnic cleansing. I am sorry but that is how I feel and I think a lot of Christians here agree with me.

 

[IslandBreeze]

Originally posted by Clay
Texas Lynn-are you for or against the death penalty? i can obviously tell you're a liberal so i would think you are against capital punishment. if you are, answer me this. how can you call on and justify the slaughter of a child (the most innocent amongst all of us, even yourself) and yet cry victim of a serial killer/rapist/murderer is given the death penalty?

how can you put a worthless value on a human life? that is a child, just like you were! who are you to say that the baby is worthless, an annoyance, an inconvience, and should be disposed of????

arent you glad your mother didnt "choose" to abort you?

Woohoo! That's good stuff right there!

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by Clay
if you are, answer me this. how can you call on and justify the slaughter of a child (the most innocent amongst all of us, even yourself) and yet cry victim of a serial killer/rapist/murderer is given the death penalty?

Yes, very good point, but on the other hand, there are conservatives who oppose abortion but support the death penalty. 

 

[IslandBreeze]

I sure do support the death penalty. It's Biblical, and necessary. Capital punishment is not murder. Abortion is murder. Cold-blooded, heartless murder.

 

[Clay]

Originally posted by vegan
Yes, very good point, but on the other hand, there are conservatives who oppose abortion but support the death penalty. 

granted, but its like comparing peas and '71 Chevelles-you just cant. 

 

[Outspoken]

"Ah, perhaps you mean "overgeneralization" rather than "stereotyping"? "

Nope, you're stereotyping.

"But abortion doctors risk their lives just for providing healthcare and queers and transsexuals are murdered or beaten for sport. "

So all of your banner against people is justified when a person NOT of that group does something to them? I guess then Islamics calling all americas (including yourself) evil people that should die a bloody horrible death is okay then. *sigh* You've got a lot of growing to do. Just because of your minor experiences with people you can't go off on a rampage blasting everyeone anytime they speak out against you. that's what people like hitler did. Look at what it accomplishes. Sounds to me you've become what you hate most. Very suprising.

"a good number of Christians are pro-choice. "

Most of them claim christian because its a social thing, and most of those "christians" probalby have never picked up the bible and have no idea who God is.


"God did not take sides in that election or any other."

With the way clinton acted in and out of office I very much doubt he is a christian at all.

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by Cammie
I sure do support the death penalty. It's Biblical, and necessary. Capital punishment is not murder. Abortion is murder. Cold-blooded, heartless murder.

I don't oppose the death penalty in theory.  But, seeing that there have been convictions overturned by DNA evidence and due to the fact that the death penalty is so racially lopsided, I can't really be 100 percent in favor of it.

Wasnt it Pat Robinson who also said blacks were more likely to be put do death than whites?

I am a conservative (well, on most issues anyway).  I wish conservatives wouldnt be so afraid to come out and admit there are flaws with capital punishment.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by vegan
Yes, very good point, but on the other hand, there are conservatives who oppose abortion but support the death penalty. 

That would be me! Quite a difference in my eyes. Here's the difference: consequence vs. murder.

 

[Outspoken]

". Any whining about the fetus is pure emotionalism irrelevant to that. "

i don't understand how someone who claims 'christian' could be so cold to a child?

 

[Clay]

*Admin hat on*

ok guys, lets stick with the original topic

*Admin hat off*

 

[vegan]

Originally posted by Outspoken
"Most of them claim christian because its a social thing, and most of those "christians" probalby have never picked up the bible and have no idea who God is.

Ha.  I know "Christians" who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus.  There is a church in orlando that has a class on how the bible is fake and that jesus never claimed he was God.