Consciousness Came Before Life

[Ace777]

What about the Universe would make you think this is so?

Entanglement tells us that everything is connected in real time. Past and future. Also there is block theory. We know God is past present and future all at the same time.

 

[dlamberth]

Anyone can cut and paste more assertions..

What you failed to do is support your assertion.

What I find myself wondering is this: How does one support what they are conscious of? How do we do that?

Probably to no surprise to you @Astrid because we have gone through this already, I have to go back to being consciously aware of Love as an example. Other than a persons assertions of their experience of Love, how is a person's experience of Love supported to others? Poets do a pretty good job of pointing towards those experiences of Love, but unless their verses hit one's heart, the poets words will go no where. It's the same when working with in the arena of conscious awareness.

I stand here in full support every one of Ace's points because I have experienced them myself, as have millions of others through out the ages. I see them as valid, insightful and worth looking into.

 

[Ophiolite]

Cosmic consciousness refers to a higher form of awareness beyond ordinary human consciousness. It was explored by psychiatrist Richard Maurice Bucke in his 1901 book titled Cosmic Consciousness: A Study in the Evolution of the Human Mind1. Here are some key characteristics:

1. Joyfulness: Individuals experiencing cosmic consciousness often feel profound joy and interconnectedness with the universe.
2. Revelation: They have a revelation about the meaning, purpose, and aliveness of the cosmos.
3. Sense of Immortality: Cosmic consciousness brings a sense of immortality, transcending fear of death.
4. Absence of Sin: Unlike conventional religious concepts, there’s no notion of sin.
5. Importance of Light: Bucke emphasized the significance of light in this state of consciousness2.

In essence, cosmic consciousness involves perceiving the universe as alive, spiritual, and interconnected—a profound shift beyond ordinary self-awareness. Historical figures like Buddha, Lao Tzu, Socrates, and Jesus have been associated with this state

Try addressing my points and not just spouting irrelevant data.

I did not ask what cosmic consciousness was. I asked you to demonstrate that "people", i.e the majority, or certainly a substantial number of people were somehow closely interested in, aligned with, committed to, etc. cosmic consciousness and that these same people were somehow "getting away" from it. That is what you claimed, yet neither assertion has been supported, certainly not by providing a description that I had no need for and did not request.

Try to make your next response more on point. i.e. address my objections rather than tossing out some peripheral observations that may or may not be interesting, but certainly don't address the issues I raised.

 

[Ophiolite]

I stand here in full support every one of Ace's points because I have experienced them myself, as have millions of others through out the ages. I see them as valid, insightful and worth looking into.

Great. If I had asked for a description of cosmic consciouness. I didn't. See my prior post.
Ace made assertions about cosmic consciousness. I'm familiar with the concept. I'm happy to discuss aspects of the concept - in particular, what justifies Ace in saying we are drifting away from it? Indeed, what makes him think we (you know, the people) are close enough to it in any shape, form, or fashion to be able to drift form it? Answer that - don't tell me what I already know!

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

You have not demonstrated that people are "getting away" from cosmic consciousness.

I first heard about "Cosmic Consciousness" in Autobiography of a Yogi. What a fun book. It is described as an expanded awareness, an evolutionary destination. Not something we started from. That would be something else that in the Eastern philosophies, like Yoga, is some kind of conscious fabric of the universe. Even rock are extensions of it. But, of course, in this life, rocks do not fit our definition of consciousness.

Still, I enjoy this kind of speculation. But then again, I am a nondualist. I see all being as a unitive entity in spite of the obvious plurality.

Both/And

 

[dlamberth]

Try addressing my points and not just spouting irrelevant data.

I know that it's something I could never do to your satisfaction. We've been through this already. Those who do explore consciousness are aware of various planes of consciousness. They have found that when its focused solely on the physical only, it becomes really really hard to also bring in the expanse of the cosmos into ones consciousness. Ace brought in some resources a person could look into, I could bring in a lot more. There's a lot to work with, if a person were interested. To you Ace was spouting irrelevant data, I get that because that's exactly how I feel when others talk about quantum stuff. But to those who inwardly "experience" a cosmic consciousness, it's not irrelevant at all. The bottom line is that the expanse of consciousness is just one of those human things that is really hard to get good data on. But if that's the only way to look at it, you may win the argument here on line, but I truly believe that you will be missing the bigger picture of what's going on with in the reach of Human consciousness.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I know that it's something I could never do to your satisfaction. We've been through this already. Those who do explore consciousness are aware of various planes of consciousness. They have found that when its focused solely on the physical only, it becomes really really hard to also bring in the expanse of the cosmos into ones consciousness. Ace brought in some resources a person could look into, I could bring in a lot more. There's a lot to work with, if a person were interested. To you Ace was spouting irrelevant data, I get that because that's exactly how I feel when others talk about quantum stuff. But to those who inwardly "experience" a cosmic consciousness, it's not irrelevant at all. The bottom line is that the expanse of consciousness is just one of those human things that is really hard to get good data on. But if that's the only way to look at it, you may win the argument here on line, but I truly believe that you will be missing the bigger picture of what's going on with in the reach of Human consciousness.

Also, the little bubble of consciousness that we recognize within our selves is like the tip of the iceberg of all the pre and subconscious aspects of our being. Some of us more aware than others of all that. In fact, an aspect of spirituality is broadening our awareness through spiritual disciplines. Of course, the East has focused more on that inner exploration through meditation.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

"The world, in Sri Aurobindo’s view, is not a random occurrence developed solely from dead Matter through some unknown process of chemical interactions; rather, it is the expression of consciousness creating, and manifesting, the entire creation for its own purpose according to its own sense."

Involution and Evolution of Consciousness in the Material World of Forms

We observe the material world around us and as we study that world, we see the development of forms of ever-greater complexity and power of action and intelligence. Charles Darwin described the pro…

sriaurobindostudies.wordpress.com

 

[Ophiolite]

I know that it's something I could never do to your satisfaction. We've been through this already. Those who do explore consciousness are aware of various planes of consciousness. They have found that when its focused solely on the physical only, it becomes really really hard to also bring in the expanse of the cosmos into ones consciousness. Ace brought in some resources a person could look into, I could bring in a lot more. There's a lot to work with, if a person were interested. To you Ace was spouting irrelevant data, I get that because that's exactly how I feel when others talk about quantum stuff. But to those who inwardly "experience" a cosmic consciousness, it's not irrelevant at all. The bottom line is that the expanse of consciousness is just one of those human things that is really hard to get good data on. But if that's the only way to look at it, you may win the argument here on line, but I truly believe that you will be missing the bigger picture of what's going on with in the reach of Human consciousness.

I fear I did not explain myself very well. I am not ignorant of the concept of cosmic consciouness. Many of the personal thoughts you share in your posts resonate with me. (If you are familiar with Heinlein's corruption of aspects of the concept in Stranger in a Strange Land you might say I grok where you are coming from.)
However, listing the characteristics of cosmic consciousness did not, in any way, address the points I raised in my post. This is a discussion forum, not a platform for pursuing a personal agenda. Failure to address points raised by other members is discourteous and a poor way to conduct a productive conversation. Either Ace is deliberately avoiding defending an indefensible position, or neural diveristy has prevented him from recognising his error, or etc.
As am aside I am almost offended by your implication that I have not experienced aspects of what you call cosmic consciousness and somewhat bemused that you are seemingly unaware that this is something experienced by many (most, all) people across the specturm of "beliefs". It's just that not all of us form the same conclusion as to its nature.

 

[Astrid]

"The world, in Sri Aurobindo’s view, is not a random occurrence developed solely from dead Matter through some unknown process of chemical interactions; rather, it is the expression of consciousness creating, and manifesting, the entire creation for its own purpose according to its own sense."

Involution and Evolution of Consciousness in the Material World of Forms

We observe the material world around us and as we study that world, we see the development of forms of ever-greater complexity and power of action and intelligence. Charles Darwin described the pro…

sriaurobindostudies.wordpress.com

Who cares what he thinks

 

[dlamberth]

I fear I did not explain myself very well. I am not ignorant of the concept of cosmic consciouness. Many of the personal thoughts you share in your posts resonate with me. (If you are familiar with Heinlein's corruption of aspects of the concept in Stranger in a Strange Land you might say I grok where you are coming from.)
However, listing the characteristics of cosmic consciousness did not, in any way, address the points I raised in my post. This is a discussion forum, not a platform for pursuing a personal agenda. Failure to address points raised by other members is discourteous and a poor way to conduct a productive conversation. Either Ace is deliberately avoiding defending an indefensible position, or neural diveristy has prevented him from recognising his error, or etc.
As am aside I am almost offended by your implication that I have not experienced aspects of what you call cosmic consciousness and somewhat bemused that you are seemingly unaware that this is something experienced by many (most, all) people across the specturm of "beliefs". It's just that not all of us form the same conclusion as to its nature.

Please, I in no way am I wanting to offend. I truly tried to gently write down what I wrote. If I failed, that's on me.

 

[dlamberth]

Who cares what he thinks

I do, for one.

 

[expos4ever]

I agree with the claim that consciousness is the biggest mystery. Or at least tied for number one. However, let me be clear about the very specific sense in which I believe it is mysterious. I agree with the argument put forward by David Chalmers - subjective experiences (such a sensation of seeing red) cannot be explained in terms of our current models of reality.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Who cares what he thinks

I do.

 

[Astrid]

I do.

Why?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Entanglement tells us that everything is connected in real time. Past and future. Also there is block theory. We know God is past present and future all at the same time.

Entanglement doesn't provide for superluminal communication of information. God is a non-scientific assumption. I don't know "block theory".

 

[Ophiolite]

Please, I in no way am I wanting to offend. I truly tried to gently write down what I wrote. If I failed, that's on me.

No, the failure is at this end. I am not clearly communicating the nature of my dissatisfaction with Ace's post. It has nothing to do with what I think about cosmic consciousness. It has everything to do with the illogical, contradictory, unsupported remarks Ace made about it. As simply as I know how to put it, it is unwarranted to assert that humanity is moving away from cosmic consciousness as though that were a fact without providing supporting evidence. Yet Ace made that assertion and patently failed to provide any evidence. If he wishes to declare it his opinion fine, but then it needs to be stated as an opinion, not as a given.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Why?

I think Sri Aurobindo has the most compelling answers to the most difficult questions in life. He is one of the most profound philosopher/poets I have encountered. I found him back in the 70's and did not appreciate him at all. Decades later I took my time and read him slowly. He is the first contemporary nondualist/process thinkers. He calls his system Integral Yoga. Of course, the more traditional Christians think he is just another Indian philosopher. But then I also like Charles Hartshorne, David Tracy, Thomas Merton, Bede Griffiths and many others who think outside the conservative box.

 

[dlamberth]

I think Sri Aurobindo has the most compelling answers to the most difficult questions in life. He is one of the most profound philosopher/poets I have encountered. I found him back in the 70's and did not appreciate him at all. Decades later I took my time and read him slowly. He is the first contemporary nondualist/process thinkers. He calls his system Integral Yoga. Of course, the more traditional Christians think he is just another Indian philosopher. But then I also like Charles Hartshorne, David Tracy, Thomas Merton, Bede Griffiths and many others who think outside the conservative box.

Being that your drawn to Sri Aurobindo, you might also like Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. It's my understanding that Sri Aurobindo's ideas on evolution were very close to Teilhard's. There was a period where I spent quite a bit of time with Teilhard. What I found interesting during my studies of him were how closely his ideas were to the Q'ero Mystics of Peru.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Being that your drawn to Sri Aurobindo, you might also like Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. It's my understanding that Sri Aurobindo's ideas on evolution were very close to Teilhard's. There was a period where I spent quite a bit of time with Teilhard. What I found interesting during my studies of him were how closely his ideas were to the Q'ero Mystics of Peru.

Did you see this?

MPT Presents | Teilhard: Visionary Scientist

Film about French priest, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who was exiled for his beliefs.

www.pbs.org