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Platte

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Moses never said it was a literal day, either. You just assumed so.
No assumption made. when the sabbath day was given to the Jews it was told to them that they were to set aside a day as the Sabbath just as God had rested on the 7th day. The sabbath was a literal day set aside by Moses. You guys are really reaching for some reason on these creation days. Not sure what the motive for you guys on that. It’s a big reach and very silly.
 
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Diamond72

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You’ve added those words and description.
I have not added anything. I quoted you the Bible and asked what your interpretation of for what the Bible says. I did use other translations other then the KJV. Why are you KJV ONLY? If so you have to tell people that. You should always honor all people as yourself and not accused them the way you seem to want to. This conversation is going to turn into a downward spiral so I am going to stop here.
 
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Platte

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God could just have made Adam immortal, rather than maintain a tree to keep him alive. Adam was never immortal, a fact God alludes to in Genesis 3.
Agreed. Not sure why people think Adam was an immortal being and that biologically something changed when he sinned. God simply denied Adam access to the Tree of Life. Thus he was surely going to die.
 
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Platte

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I have not added anything. I quoted you the Bible and asked what your interpretation of for what the Bible says. I did use other translations other than the KJV. Why are you KJV ONLY? If so you have to tell people that. You should always honor all people as yourself and not accused them the way you seem to want to. This conversation is going to turn into a downward spiral so I am going to stop here.
You added the word “chaos”. That’s a very significant addition but I understand why you added it.
 
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David Lamb

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God created everything in a thousand, thousand thousandth of a second. In the smallest amount of time that the laws of physics will allow. Before that then they use quantum physics to explain what happened and a lot of people have problems with that
I am afraid I can't agree with you on that. God is almighty, so He could have created everything in a thousand, thousand thousandth of a second, but He didn't. If you say that the 6 days of Genesis 1 are actually a tiny fraction of a second, that makes a verse like this meaningless:

“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Ex 20:11 NKJV)

The sabbath would only be one seventh of thousand, thousand thousandth of a second long!
 
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Diamond72

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so He could have created everything in a thousand, thousand thousandth of a second, but He didn't.
The point is NOTHING< absolutely NOTHING has been added. Everything was here in the beginning. The Bible says God declares the end from the beginning and He watches over HIs word to perform what He says He is going to do.

God says it, I believe it and that settles it.

Isaiah 46:10 Do you have trouble understanding what this means that God declares the end from the beginning?


Here’s a breakdown of its significance:

  1. Foretelling Future Events: God declares the end from the beginning. This means that He accurately predicts the course of future events. It’s an argument He often uses to demonstrate that He is the only true God1.
  2. God’s Purpose and Counsel: The verse emphasizes that God’s counsel stands firm. When He says something, it happens. His purpose and design are unshakable. This reveals that God has a plan for human affairs, and His plan will not be frustrated1.
  3. Trust in God: The context encourages us to trust God. He has demonstrated Himself and His purpose throughout history (“the former things”). Seeing God’s faithfulness should lead us to have faith in Him2.
In summary, Isaiah 46:10 reminds us of God’s sovereignty, His ability to foretell events, and the stability of His purpose. It’s a comforting assurance that God’s plans will ultimately prevail.

Jeremiah 1:12
  1. God’s Vigilance:
    • The phrase “I will hasten my word” can also be understood as “I am watchful over my word.”
    • God assures Jeremiah that He diligently oversees His promises. His word won’t be delayed or forgotten; it will be promptly fulfilled.
  2. Divine Faithfulness:
    • Despite the challenges Jeremiah faces in delivering God’s message, he can rely on God’s faithfulness.
    • The Lord’s commitment to His word remains unwavering. He is more vigilant than anyone, ensuring His purposes come to pass.
In summary, Jeremiah 1:12 emphasizes God’s watchfulness, His unwavering commitment to His word, and the certainty of its fulfillment. It encourages us to trust in His promises, even amidst uncertain circumstances.
 
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Job 33:6

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Hello!
I decided to join this forum hoping to find the asnwers nobody has given me yet.
I've been a Christian since 2017 (received water baptism that year, but became a believer earlier), and I was very zealous in my faith several years since then. Until I gradually strated thinking over certain questions and noticing things I had not been noticing before.

For example, the Bible says that the world was created in 6 days - I had no problem with this, until I started thinking about this deeper. In six days? With the creation of the stars on the third day? Even if the stars were created on the first day, the light from them would not have reached the earth up until today (except for the sun's light). I searched a lot of information and explanations about this, and what I found more or less plausible is the theory saying, while only six days passed on earth, millions of years passed in the space/cosmos, because the time flows with different speeds.

But, anyway, that's a whole another topic, I just mentioned it to show you what kind of stuff I pondered about, and today I would like to ask a different question.

I have been okay with the thought that there was no death before the fall at all - not even animal death. But then, when I thought about it deeper, I said, "hey, wait a minute. Do you really think that not any single organism died before the flood, even a germ? Even a mosquito at Adam's shoulder? When Adam and Eve walked around Eden, didn't they occasionally squezze some bugs in the grass to death?"
That made no sense to me. It's impossible that not a single organism could die. Were worms supposed to live forever?
But I found some explanations about this. Some creationist commentators say that there are some so called "non-nephesh animals", like insects. Here's an article I found - God Created Insects - Today's Creation Moment
According to this view, insects did not have the blessing to live forever. Earlier I came across a creationist article which called instects "bio robots"
While I partly agree with this approach, this still creates a problem for me.
If animals (at least cerain categories) died before the Fall, death was in the original plan of God. If death was okay, that violence was okay too. What other purpose than killing and eating flesh was for a shark in God's original plan?
If death and violence was from the beginning, even before the Fall, than God was the author of death and suffering, and the whole creation story and the message of the Bible loses its sence. On the other hand, how was it possible that there would be no death at all for all living organisms, ever (if the Fall hadn't happened)?
That's a great dilemma for me.
The world we live in, with its animal life and how the life functions, just doesn't fit into ideal world God created as depeicted in Genesis 1, and it doesn't matter that the Fall happened. I mean, for the world to be ideal and excluding death altogether, that must have been some very different world with quite a different fauna and laws of life.
I just need to figure it out, and I hope you will help me.
Genesis was written in an ancient near east context. That's step 1 toward understanding Genesis. You have to understand that the Biblical authors and audience lived a really long time ago, before modern science. So you don't want to read modern 21st century ideas backwards into the Bible.

 
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Ace777

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There was no death before the Fall...
Genesis 1:29 states, “And God said, “Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat”

John 12 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
 
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Qubit

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Genesis 1:29 states, “And God said, “Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat”

John 12 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God."

Jeremiah 15:16
"Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts."


The 'food' consumed before the Fall was information, knowledge, wisdom.

What was the tree called that the Forbidden Fruit came from?

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. How much plainer could God have made it?

The Trees of Eden were symbolic of people...

Ezekiel 31:18
"To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD."


Were Adam and the Woman supposed to eat people? No. They were to learn by consuming their wisdom and knowledge (i.e., their 'Fruit').

Proverbs 18:21
"Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."


After the Fall, everything changed dramatically. Now, knowledge and wisdom must be learned the hard way through death and suffering.
 
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Qubit

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God could just have made Adam immortal, rather than maintain a tree to keep him alive. Adam was never immortal, a fact God alludes to in Genesis 3.

The above is a false statement.

If the Tree of Life is required to 'keep us alive' in New Jerusalem, then God lied when he said death is swallowed up in victory.

So, if someone missed their breakfast, they would die? They would begin to age? Give me a break. Incorruptible means just that.

Death did not exist before the Fall, therefore Adam was created immortal to begin with.
 
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The Barbarian

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God could just have made Adam immortal, rather than maintain a tree to keep him alive. Adam was never immortal, a fact God alludes to in Genesis 3.

Another false statement.
Well, let's take a look...

Genesis 3:21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them. 22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

I believe God. You should, too.
Death did not exist before the Fall, therefore Adam was created immortal to begin with.
Not according to God. Why not just accept it His way?
 
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Qubit

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Genesis 3:21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them. 22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

The above verse proves my point.

It literally states that all Adam had to do was reach out his hand one time, eat one time, and live forever.

Obviously, because Adam sinned, he was forbidden to partake of the Tree of Life. Death entered all living things because of that sin.

Note that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was partaken of one time. Once was enough.

Both trees are a 'one-shot deal'.
 
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The Barbarian

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It literally states that all Adam had to do was reach out his hand one time, eat one time, and live forever.
Because he wasn't created immortal. God was concerned that he might become so, and banished him from the source of life.
 
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Qubit

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Because he wasn't created immortal. God was concerned that he might become so, and banished him from the source of life.

Did you not read the second line I wrote? You are interpreting the verses out of order.

I will state it another way as simple as I possibly can...
  • Adam and the Woman were originally created immortal.
  • They partook of the Forbidden Fruit.
  • Death entered the world.
  • Adam and the Woman then lost their immortality because death entered into them.
So, of course God would be concerned about someone trying to cheat their way into the Glorified Body by partaking of the Tree of Life. They must die first and be raised incorruptible first. There is a process involved.

You clearly have no idea what either tree is all about. I will give you a hint, but I doubt you will understand as you are having too much difficulty already.

The Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil were designed to 'clothe' the Spirit and Soul with a Body...

2 Corinthians 5:2
"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven."


Adam and the Woman were 'naked' because they were not clothed with a Tabernacle yet, not because they did not have their pajamas on. They were created non-corporeal. The 'Living Soul' in Genesis 2:7 is Spirit + Soul minus the Body.

You are still on the Milk, believing silly nursery rhymes. You need to understand the Meat of the Word...

2 Corinthians 5:4
"For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life."


The Redeemed must be clothed. That is what the Tree of Life is for. The Redeemed 'float in the sky' in the First Resurrection because again, they do not have a physical Body yet. The Marriage Supper must come first. You know? Marriage first, THEN the Children are conceived and born? Do you even understand that people becoming Born Again before the marriage is a sin?

Anyhow, I am leaving this thread as I feel this conversation is non-productive.

Later.
 
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The Barbarian

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Did you not read the second line I wrote? You are interpreting the verses out of order.

I will state it another way as simple as I possibly can...
  • Adam and the Woman were originally created immortal.
That is man's revision of God's word. God never told us that. You should not add things to God's word.
  • They partook of the Forbidden Fruit.
  • Death entered the world.
You are confusing that death with a physical death. God told Adam that he would die the day he ate from that tree. Adam did eat from that tree,but lived on physically for many years thereafter. If God is truthful then that death was not a physical one.
  • Adam and the Woman then lost their immortality because death entered into them.
You're assuming your addition to God's word is greater than God's word. Bad assumption.
 
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Ace777

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Immortal beings have no need for such a tree.
Must be a reason for this or we would not read about it in the Bible. Revelation 22 2

1Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
 
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