Confession ...

[fhansen]

Do Catholics not also have a general confession prayer? We do depending on the local priest but it is not a replacement for private confession.

Is absolution granted with the general confession prayer?

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Is absolution granted with the general confession prayer?

Protopresbyter Alexander Schmemann: Confession and Communion
Skip down to general confession. Basically the answer is no without proper confession but there can be exceptions.

 

[NorrinRadd]

This is one I didn't actually want to make. And the ironic thing is, I'm most interested to hear from the "We confess to God only" point of view, even though that's what I'm familiar with.

...

As you wish.

I am trying to reconcile things I read in Scripture, and I know there are different interpretations of these things. I would appreciate hearing different viewpoints and the reason for interpreting them that way. I really need reasons, if you know of any, because I see "what it says".

Please everyone try to be respectful. I know this question crosses denominational lines.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is NASB. The Living Bible says "if we confess our sins to Him" but all the other translations I can find say basically the same as this. I have always taken it to mean that we confess to God, and I really see no other reason to interpret this any differently.

The context suggests to me that this is not about an explicit citation of one's sins -- whether to God or some human intercessor -- but a general admission of "yes, I sin" as opposed to a claim of "I have no sins" (v. 8). In context, "sin" is that which breaks fellowship with Jesus and with each other. In the larger context of the epistle and the entire Johannine corpus, it is breaking of commandments, which John eventually gets around to defining as the breaking of "Love one another." In the closer context of John 1 and into John 2, we have hope when we do sin, because we have Jesus as Advocate and Intercessor; so we have hope, and He has the glory.

And of course, we have OT precedence to confess to God, through the Psalms in many places:
Psalm 32:5 I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord”; And You forgave the guilt of my sin.

Which is interesting, in that it is under a Covenant that explicitly included a formal priesthood for dealing with sins.

And of course it is the Pharisees talking in verses like this, but we have several that are against Jesus such as Mark 2:7 which indicate at the least that the religious thought was that only God could forgive sins.
"Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"

That could be taken as repudiation of His forgiving sins apart from proper priestly rituals. And therefore we could interpret His actions as showing that that the old priesthood was becoming unnecessary in the new age.

And yet of course there are such as these:

James 5
14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

That passage is a bit ambiguous, since it combines the ideas of calling for the council of elders for prayer for healing and forgiveness and of members of the church in general confessing to each other and praying for healing for each other.

John 20
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

This is John's version of the Great Commission. As you know, I see the part where He blew into them and invited them to receive the Spirit as call-backs to John 3, to Eze. 36 and 37, and to Adam, hence the point at which they were returned to live by being (re)born from above. Since the need to be revived in this way is common to all, the Commission applies to all believers. All believers are therefore representatives of God and authorized to forgive sins in the cases in which He would.

When I read online, I find reference to Matt 16 connected to this:
18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

In regard to the "keys of the Kingdom" part, Keener notes Matt. 23:13. There, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for improperly and hypocritically assuming the authority to admit or preclude people from Heaven. Here Jesus gives the legitimate authority to those who confess Him.

And Matt 18 - which talks about several things, and I'm debating how much to consider as being context, and why.
15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

I believe that's the proper extent of the context. Contrary to common usage, vv. 19-20 are not about prayer, at least in the general sense, they are about invoking God as both Judge and Reconciler.

"Bind" and "loose," sometimes translated "forbid" and "permit," were terms used of rabbis in regard to their authority to apply God's law as mediators and adjudicators.

In both Matt. 16 and Matt. 18, the tense is more like "Whatever you forbid on earth will have already been forbidden from Heaven, and what you permit on earth will have already been forbidden from Heaven." IOW, we can announce Heaven's verdict to the best of our understanding, not invent our own. In Matt 16 the application is more general, while in Matt. 18 it is applied to personal disputes.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Now where is that great video I watched yesterday that included teachings about confession... ah ha!

Compliments of Freedbyte.

The Sacrament of Confession - Fr Seraphim Cardoza - theDove.us - YouTube

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[concretecamper]

I'm sorry Albion, I'm a little confused. Is your point that the entire body of believers are authorized to forgive sins?

Thank you.

From scripture, we see that Jesus gave the Apostle the authority to either forgive OR retain sins. In order for the Apostles to do this, it is obvious that an oral confession to the Apostles was required (they were not mind readers). The implementation of the sacrament may have changed over the first few centuries but the basics remain...oral confession is required.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Now where is that great video I watched yesterday that included teachings about confession... ah ha!

Compliments of Freedbyte.


God be gracious to me a sinner.

Thank you ... I see he has quite a few other videos there as well. And I finally fixed my computer so I can watch videos on it again.

I appreciated that - particularly how he related it to healing.

 

[~Anastasia~]

So it seems the main question for those who believe in confession is who one should confess to.

Absolution becomes another point, I suppose. (Everyone please forgive my ignorance here, I have very little input on this so far.)

I understand RC still tend to require particular acts of penance? Relating more to prayers, and being a penitant publicly?

I have heard some points of penance from Orthodox, having more to do with reparation? Would absolution be given without penance if reparation is not needed?

Would also be interested in other branches of the church on these points.

 

[Steeno7]

Think of confession as what it actually is, and it will become clearer to you. Confession is saying the same thing as God, agreeing with God. What does God say about your sins? He says they ARE forgiven. He says that in Christ Jesus we HAVE forgiveness. He says He has taken your sins away, never to see them again. He says the sin issue between you and Himself is settled, it is finished. That is where your confession of sins as a Christian must begin, or else you simply are not truly confessing, you are not truly agreeing with God and saying the same as He is saying about your sins.

 

[stan1953]

From scripture, we see that Jesus gave the Apostle the authority to either forgive OR retain sins. In order for the Apostles to do this, it is obvious that an oral confession to the Apostles was required (they were not mind readers). The implementation of the sacrament may have changed over the first few centuries but the basics remain...oral confession is required.

Actually Jesus was not giving them any authority, He was recognizing their authority as His apostles, which meant they could decide in the Spirit, who was in sin or not, who was saved or not. This was no different than what Paul taught in 1 Cor 5. ONLY God can forgive sins, and as Paul wrote to Timothy;
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[Willie T]

I think most of this boils down to simply, and openly admitting that we have, do, and are sinning.

The verse, "If you say you do not sin....." covers this perfectly. I think the whole point of this is the way God gives us to humbly drop our pride, and just admit our dependency upon Him.

If we resist actually speaking out loud about (confessing) our sins, then I see that as holding back a little from true admission of our wrongdoing.

It's easy to kind of mumble about sins in a prayer closet where no one else is going to hear, and thus cannot "judge".

It's even easy to engage in the guaranteed silence of the familiar and accepted weekly confessional activity.

Not really that much of a risk to "confess" to a Protestant Pastor, either.

But when it comes to doing exactly the same thing... saying the same words... to another regular person in our group of church associates....... Then, whoa! NOW comes some REAL admission, out in the open, where it really DOES stand a chance of coming back on us.

Are we going to trust God THAT much? Most of us... "No way!" "I'll do all that 'confessing' stuff where I am comfortable knowing that it is all going to remain a hidden secret and just as safe as if I really never had admitted it, anyway."

THAT kind of confession, I think we can deal with. The REAL stuff.... maybe, not so much.

 

[~Anastasia~]

NorrinRadd, thank you SO MUCH for replying. I had actually really hoped and thought I would get more of "the other side" here, and I am not seeing it?

Frankly, these Scriptures have simply been ignored in most of the churches I have attended, so I don't know the argument "against" the plain interpretation, so this time I was really hoping to hear that.

I want the truth, of course, but being that I can't erase my mind, the only way I can find to level the field for interpretation is to consider all points, in order to offset others, so that I may look at things honestly. And this is one point that my husband vehemently objected to when I mentioned one of the verses, so I hoped to sort this one out quickly.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The context suggests to me that this is not about an explicit citation of one's sins -- whether to God or some human intercessor -- but a general admission of "yes, I sin" as opposed to a claim of "I have no sins" (v. 8). In context, "sin" is that which breaks fellowship with Jesus and with each other. In the larger context of the epistle and the entire Johannine corpus, it is breaking of commandments, which John eventually gets around to defining as the breaking of "Love one another." In the closer context of John 1 and into John 2, we have hope when we do sin, because we have Jesus as Advocate and Intercessor; so we have hope, and He has the glory.

Thank you. I have not had time to re-read the book of 1 John with your comments in mind, but I can see what you are saying, and I do see the immediate context easily.

That was actually my "main verse" that said "we confess to God" though ...

And of course, we have OT precedence to confess to God, through the Psalms in many places:
Psalm 32:5 I acknowledged my sin to You, And my iniquity I did not hide; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord”; And You forgave the guilt of my sin.

Which is interesting, in that it is under a Covenant that explicitly included a formal priesthood for dealing with sins.

Good point. I was searching quickly for one instance in the OT of praying directly to God for forgiveness and receiving it, since I didn't see the OT as bearing on the question above what we see in the NT. But you are absolutely right, and I had somehow completely forgotten that.

Which again, makes another potential argument for God's plan for dealing with sin to be within such a structure.

And of course it is the Pharisees talking in verses like this, but we have several that are against Jesus such as Mark 2:7 which indicate at the least that the religious thought was that only God could forgive sins.
"Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"
That could be taken as repudiation of His forgiving sins apart from proper priestly rituals. And therefore we could interpret His actions as showing that that the old priesthood was becoming unnecessary in the new age.

Basically a point for each side then (if I'm treating this as a contest, which I'm not, I'm just trying to analyze your responses). And the first point is really just an emphasis on your last one, that the OT had that structure, and we've already established that. However, you do have a point that this can be taken as implying that the priesthood was becoming unnecessary.

Though one can argue against the significance by saying that Jesus is our High Priest. But, your point still stands, only with argument against.

James 5
14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

That passage is a bit ambiguous, since it combines the ideas of calling for the council of elders for prayer for healing and forgiveness and of members of the church in general confessing to each other and praying for healing for each other.

True. It is ambiguous in terms of WHO one should confess to, but it still represents public confession on both ends.

It almost seems the thread is developing the question of who to confess to (human person) rather than my intent, which was actually "should we be confessing to man at all" and my presupposition was that maybe we should not be, but rather directly to God. Though I am trying not to let those presuppositions get in the way of the truth of the Bible, this one seems more cut and dried than anything I have yet considered, to my great surprise.

John 20
21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

This is John's version of the Great Commission. As you know, I see the part where He blew into them and invited them to receive the Spirit as call-backs to John 3, to Eze. 36 and 37, and to Adam, hence the point at which they were returned to live by being (re)born from above. Since the need to be revived in this way is common to all, the Commission applies to all believers. All believers are therefore representatives of God and authorized to forgive sins in the cases in which He would.

Noted. Which as I said ... the question seems to be becoming "who" rather than "if" ...

When I read online, I find reference to Matt 16 connected to this:
18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

In regard to the "keys of the Kingdom" part, Keener notes Matt. 23:13. There, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for improperly and hypocritically assuming the authority to admit or preclude people from Heaven. Here Jesus gives the legitimate authority to those who confess Him.

So not related to confession and forgiveness in that interpretation. I actually question if there is good enough reason to connect the two, though I see most do. I haven't gotten to really consider that question yet, as it is secondary to me. Thank you for your input on it though. I appreciate that.

And Matt 18 - which talks about several things, and I'm debating how much to consider as being context, and why.
15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

I believe that's the proper extent of the context. Contrary to common usage, vv. 19-20 are not about prayer, at least in the general sense, they are about invoking God as both Judge and Reconciler.

Thank you. I do think the context is sometimes wrongly divided. I'm not completely set on this, but I don't break it into as many sections as the resource I usually use has done, certainly. It seems to relate, to me.

"Bind" and "loose," sometimes translated "forbid" and "permit," were terms used of rabbis in regard to their authority to apply God's law as mediators and adjudicators.

In both Matt. 16 and Matt. 18, the tense is more like "Whatever you forbid on earth will have already been forbidden from Heaven, and what you permit on earth will have already been forbidden from [permitted in - accidentally the opposite?] Heaven." IOW, we can announce Heaven's verdict to the best of our understanding, not invent our own. In Matt 16 the application is more general, while in Matt. 18 it is applied to personal disputes.

Thank you, I have heard that before.

I really need to learn to get into the tenses and such in Greek, I am so limited sometimes in figuring out what the Bible actually said. I appreciate the help.

Overall, thank you so much for your post, NorrinRadd. If you'd care at any point to add more, or if anyone else would? I would guess your beliefs are more along the lines of not confessing to men, but to God?

I would still appreciate hearing any "refutation" or alternative explanation of these Scriptures by anyone who would say it means something else, or perhaps there are Scriptures I missed in my search that say something different?

I'm not trying to make the Bible say what I want, or anything like that. I just know that I've been taught confession to man is not necessary, and I don't even know the reasons why from Scripture (beyond the torn veil).

The only other possible Scripture I can come up with is Hebrews 4

14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Which I can't find actual confession and forgiveness here - this is about Christ being our High Priest, having been tempted, not having sinned, but I think it has more to do with His worthiness as High Priest (and later in Hebrews as sacrifice?) ... the "confession" here is the confession of faith, I believe. I think of it because we draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, but it doesn't seem to be in seeking forgiveness of sins.

One might expect the opposite, in fact. It doesn't seem to be a right attitude to approach, when needing forgiveness?

 

[Tangible]

Do Catholics not also have a general confession prayer? We do depending on the local priest but it is not a replacement for private confession.

Is absolution granted with the general confession prayer?

From the Lutheran Service Book, Divine Service, Setting Three ...

P - O almighty God, merciful Father,

C - I, a poor, miserable sinner, confess unto You all my sins and iniquities with which I have ever offended You and justly deserved Your temporal and eternal punishment. But I am heartily sorry for them and sincerely repent of them, and I pray You of Your boundless mercy and for the sake of the holy, innocent, bitter sufferings and death of Your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to be gracious and merciful to me, a poor, sinful being.

P - Upon this your confession, I, by virtue of my office, as a called and ordained servant of the Word, announce the grace of God unto all of you, and in the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the + Son and of the Holy Spirit.

C - Amen.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think most of this boils down to simply, and openly admitting that we have, do, and are sinning.

The verse, "If you say you do not sin....." covers this perfectly. I think the whole point of this is the way God gives us to humbly drop our pride, and just admit our dependency upon Him.

If we resist actually speaking out loud about (confessing) our sins, then I see that as holding back a little from true admission of our wrongdoing.

It's easy to kind of mumble about sins in a prayer closet where no one else is going to hear, and thus cannot "judge".

It's even easy to engage in the guaranteed silence of the familiar and accepted weekly confessional activity.

Not really that much of a risk to "confess" to a Protestant Pastor, either.

But when it comes to doing exactly the same thing... saying the same words... to another regular person in our group of church associates....... Then, whoa! NOW comes some REAL admission, out in the open, where it really DOES stand a chance of coming back on us.

Are we going to trust God THAT much? Most of us... "No way!" "I'll do all that 'confessing' stuff where I am comfortable knowing that it is all going to remain a hidden secret and just as safe as if I really never had admitted it, anyway."

THAT kind of confession, I think we can deal with. The REAL stuff.... maybe, not so much.

Wow, Willie. I was hoping you would reply.

You surprised me. Although ... now that I read your response, it seems like I should have expected it, from another thread. I have to apologize a second time in this thread - I am compartmentalizing many ideas in order to consider them, and some I do need to expand and include in a larger context, but it is causing me to forget a few details.

You were helpful to me before, I'm sure though, and now again.

Yes, I DO see confession like that as harder.

Soon after I came to faith, I lost something very valuable that I was entrusted with, and accountable to another person for. I prayed and prayed DESPERATELY for God to help me find it. And all I could seem to "get" ... was that I needed to confess to that person that I had lost it.

That was hard. I didn't want to. But I went to them, confessed, and tried to hold onto myself, but ended up weeping. I'm sure she thought I was crazy, LOL. And she forgave me.

I went home. Instantly the thought occurred where I should look for it and ... guess what? There it was.

That made an impression on me. I know it was not a general confession, but one made to the person I was potentially offending, but it still made an impact.

I do confess to my husband sometimes (I don't know why, but I do?), and I admit my faults to others when it seems to apply, though I wouldn't call that confession.

Hmmmmmm. Much to think about. Much more than I anticipated. All of these questions seem to lead to so much more.

Thank you for your response!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Think of confession as what it actually is, and it will become clearer to you. Confession is saying the same thing as God, agreeing with God. What does God say about your sins? He says they ARE forgiven. He says that in Christ Jesus we HAVE forgiveness. He says He has taken your sins away, never to see them again. He says the sin issue between you and Himself is settled, it is finished. That is where your confession of sins as a Christian must begin, or else you simply are not truly confessing, you are not truly agreeing with God and saying the same as He is saying about your sins.

Thank you for your reply.

You are saying that our sins are already forgiven?

Would you say that ongoing confession of particular sins is necessary? 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What I am getting at then, is if you DO believe we need ongoing confession, who do we confess to? If we confess only to God in request for forgiveness, then what Scripture can you use to support that, and how do you deal with the other verses in the OP?

Thanks for your post.

 

[Willie T]

Wow, Willie. I was hoping you would reply.

You surprised me. Although ... now that I read your response, it seems like I should have expected it, from another thread. I have to apologize a second time in this thread - I am compartmentalizing many ideas in order to consider them, and some I do need to expand and include in a larger context, but it is causing me to forget a few details.

You were helpful to me before, I'm sure though, and now again.

Yes, I DO see confession like that as harder.

Soon after I came to faith, I lost something very valuable that I was entrusted with, and accountable to another person for. I prayed and prayed DESPERATELY for God to help me find it. And all I could seem to "get" ... was that I needed to confess to that person that I had lost it.

That was hard. I didn't want to. But I went to them, confessed, and tried to hold onto myself, but ended up weeping. I'm sure she thought I was crazy, LOL. And she forgave me.

I went home. Instantly the thought occurred where I should look for it and ... guess what? There it was.

That made an impression on me. I know it was not a general confession, but one made to the person I was potentially offending, but it still made an impact.

I do confess to my husband sometimes (I don't know why, but I do?), and I admit my faults to others when it seems to apply, though I wouldn't call that confession.

Hmmmmmm. Much to think about. Much more than I anticipated. All of these questions seem to lead to so much more.

Thank you for your response!

Yes, we sometimes have the desire to try and make Christianity something ethereal and "spiritual". Jesus showed us, every day, that it is a "Skin On" interaction with... oh horrors.... all those germy people He came to touch, and love, and rescue.

And, wasn't just about everything He left for us to do, very directly pertaining to interaction with other human beings? Really. Almost all of it. And sometimes we hate the thought. We'll do almost anything to ritualize His commands so that we don't actually have to reach out and really "touch" the actual skin of that leper.

And it is usually a risk. Wagering it all on Jesus' word. The rich Young Ruler? Not "Help out the poor" Not, "Give to the church." Not even, Give 'most' of your possessions away". No, God said to risk it all out in the real world.... "Make yourself destitute and homeless by getting rid of ALL your possessions."

Just my take on some of this.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Actually Jesus was not giving them any authority, He was recognizing their authority as His apostles, which meant they could decide in the Spirit, who was in sin or not, who was saved or not. This was no different than what Paul taught in 1 Cor 5. ONLY God can forgive sins, and as Paul wrote to Timothy;
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

Ah, I forgot about the "one mediator" and that has been used to say that no man is needed for confession. I'm not sure if you meant it that way.

So you are saying it is a matter of only recognizing whose sins are forgiven, or retained?

In 1 Cor 5, Paul writes
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
and I'm guessing that's the one you refer to?

I'd have to look into that further, and it may be beyond my ability to be completely sure of the original text.

It actually seems it may be related to some of the other verses discussed here. I thank you for mentioning it, I had forgotten that instance.

(Though I am really interested in v. 5 ... I had intended to ask that question someday - regarding the destruction of his flesh for the sake that his spirit may still be saved.)

Thanks for your input, and if you'd care to say more, I'm listening.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't think there is an absolute answer for that question. Normally, a general confession when used is not a place for absolution to be granted but more a tool to help one become repentant as it's general in nature and not at all specific as to the sin one has wallowed in. Usually private confession is required.
A general confession is more akin to one saying , "God be merciful to me a sinner' then asking forgiveness for siphoning the neighbors gas out of his car. One is a proclamation and the other might require a visit to the neighbor with a full can of gas.
In Orthodoxy repairing a wrong is often required except when it's not possible as it demonstrates true repentance.

I see something being left aside in this discussion. Laity forgiving sins. The layman can also forgive a sin committed against them personally. While this may not assure it's forgiven from above it does keep the layman from committing a sin himself as unforgiveness is indeed a sin. (The Lord's prayer comes to mind and the IF after that prayer stands out)

Thank you for your reply, Mama Kidogo, and also for noting the point that you did. It was actually something that came up in the discussion I had with my husband before posting here.

I see there seems to be disagreement over whether confession to "one another" is necessary, or to an office in the church.

But yes, forgiveness personally from one we've wronged is important. I hadn't yet taken my consideration to the point that the one we wrong is at risk of being unforgiving, and in that sinning themselves.

I'm a little overwhelmed at how much all of the concepts can interact.

Thank you so very much for your post.

 

[Willie T]

Absolution (as we use it) is a word I don't like.

We received "absolution" at the cross. Jesus said, "It is finished."

All I do in my admissions of my wrongs is to thank Him for letting me live under that ongoing absolution He granted so long ago.

 

[Steeno7]

Thank you for your reply.

You are saying that our sins are already forgiven?

Would you say that ongoing confession of particular sins is necessary? 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

What I am getting at then, is if you DO believe we need ongoing confession, who do we confess to? If we confess only to God in request for forgiveness, then what Scripture can you use to support that, and how do you deal with the other verses in the OP?

Thanks for your post.

Those who are in Christ HAVE forgiveness. It is vitally important to understand that.

Do we throw out what scripture plainly and repeatedly tells us about our forgiveness because one verse seems to contradict that? Do we throw out the obvious and cling to the obscure?

You will never understand 1 John if you do not understand that he is refuting an opponent, and he is doing so by contrasting true believers with those opponents who are not believers. Specifically, he is refuting an early form of Gnosticism that was being preached among the believers.

I have forgiveness because I have the One in whom is forgiveness. My forgiveness is based in Jesus Christ, through His shed blood on the cross, not through my keeping myself fessed' up.

 

[Willie T]

A real world example:

I am going to have to let some of myself die tonight.

I flat-out lied to a man at church Sunday. No point going into it (it's long and involved), but suffice it to say I blurted out something to make myself look better in his eyes, and to bolster some sagging self-esteem I have been suffering through since the stoke.

I'm basically all too aware of limited performance issues now, and it hurts me emotionally. This lie I told was to try and bring back of some of the old me that I know I will never see again.

Anyway, if I see this guy tonight at church, I have decided to admit what a fool this old man has been in trying to look like someone I no longer am. This is going to be tough.

Will let you Guys know how it goes.

Durn! I wish I could just go confess this in a prayer closet somewhere.... he would never know the difference, anyway. But that is not how I read the Bible.