Confession ...

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am confident that all of the ancient churches thinks they they've never realigned, changed, or reformed dogmatically and that growth and development is all that has happened. Maybe it is true and none of us ever really changed but there was always a seed of difference present. I do not know.

There is a lot I do not know.

God be merciful to me, a sinner and an ignoramus.

But but but...

Oh, nevermind. Solving 1000 years worth of problems is not going to happen here.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Chesterton]

Joke:

Q: How many Orthodox does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Change?

 

[Chesterton]

dp

 

[stan1953]

wouldn't Catholicism actually be realigned Orthodoxy?
And ... Lutheranism is realigned Catholicism.
And many xyz Protestant churches are realigned Lutherans (or some other "original Protestant" ...

Basically there are only TWO types of church polity;

Congregational and Presbytery/Episcopal (Protestant/Catholic-Orthodox)

The first is where each individual congregation is run by itself with a board of elders, but it does have a governing body. The second is where the denomination itself controls everything through it's clergy.

For example, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada are congregational and the Foursquare Church of Canada are Presbytery. They are BOTH Pentecostal denoms.
The main Catholic-Orthodox denoms are Episcopal in nature.
Hope this helps.

 

[stan1953]

Joke:

Q: How many Orthodox does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Change?

Q: What are the eight last words of the universal church?
A: We have never done it that way before.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I am confident that all of the ancient churches thinks they they've never realigned, changed, or reformed dogmatically and that growth and development is all that has happened. Maybe it is true and none of us ever really changed but there was always a seed of difference present. I do not know.

There is a lot I do not know.

God be merciful to me, a sinner and an ignoramus.

Very orthodox of you.(the bolded part ).
If we look at the same thing with you looking from the West and myself from the East, we are bound to not see the same side of the thing. I can't help but notice we cross ourselves in a mirror image. Both different and yet oddly similar.
I once heard hate described as a false emotion used to mask fear. I often think that might have some validity. Man has hated and segregated himself for so long that I wonder if we have not even segregated ourselves from our own brother's and sisters.
But, like you, there is a lot I do not know.
God be merciful to me, a sinner and even bigger ignoramus than the man from OZ.

 

[Albion]

Basically there are only TWO types of church polity;

Congregational and Presbytery/Episcopal (Protestant/Catholic-Orthodox)

The first is where each individual congregation is run by itself with a board of elders, but it does have a governing body. The second is where the denomination itself controls everything through it's clergy.

For example, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada are congregational and the Foursquare Church of Canada are Presbytery. They are BOTH Pentecostal denoms.
The main Catholic-Orthodox denoms are Episcopal in nature.
Hope this helps.

Not sure about that.

You can't say that a church run by its ''clergy" is "Episcopal" unless its run by bishops, and many churches have a polity that is neither exclusively Presbyterian nor Episcopal.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Joke:

Q: How many Orthodox does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Change?

Lightbulb? Don't you mean oil lamp?

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Not sure about that.

You can't say that a church run by its ''clergy" is "Episcopal" unless its run by bishops, and many churches have a polity that is neither exclusively Presbyterian nor Episcopal.

Good eye.
Two types is very wishful thinking .
I used to think Liturgical and sermon driven but that doesn't work either.
I'd now say there is but one. Those God sees as the Church. And I'll leave the sheep and goat dividing to God. I don't think He requires my help in that judgement.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Originally Posted by Chesterton
Joke:

Q: How many Orthodox does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: Change?

Lightbulb? Don't you mean oil lamp?

Y'all are too funny. Thanks for the laugh - I love it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Good eye.
Two types is very wishful thinking .
I used to think Liturgical and sermon driven but that doesn't work either.
I'd now say there is but one. Those God sees as the Church. And I'll leave the sheep and goat dividing to God. I don't think He requires my help in that judgement.

And I used to think cessationist and tongues-speaking (I admit to ignoring the RC in my estimation at that time.)

But I will admit - it may be foolish of me, I may not be appreciating the ramifications - but of all the things I would consider in a church, their method of government would be at the least level of importance to me at the moment.

I do see it probably has a great effect on consistency, at the very least. But if a church had beliefs that aligned with mine in every other way, I would definitely overlook the government structure either way.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Very orthodox of you.(the bolded part ).

If we look at the same thing with you looking from the West and myself from the East, we are bound to not see the same side of the thing. I can't help but notice we cross ourselves in a mirror image. Both different and yet oddly similar.

I once heard hate described as a false emotion used to mask fear. I often think that might have some validity. Man has hated and segregated himself for so long that I wonder if we have not even segregated ourselves from our own brother's and sisters.

But, like you, there is a lot I do not know.

God be merciful to me, a sinner and even bigger ignoramus than the man from OZ.

Some months ago I was quite distressed to find myself rated 100% Orthodox and 98% Catholic on a test about one's beliefs. My bishop would chide me for that result

 

[stan1953]

Not sure about that.

You can't say that a church run by its ''clergy" is "Episcopal" unless its run by bishops, and many churches have a polity that is neither exclusively Presbyterian nor Episcopal.

I did say BASICALLY. There are always exceptions to most rules of thumb, but feel free to point out any.

BTW those that are NOT Presbytery/Episcopal, would more than likely be congregational, and a denom that doesn't have bishop, is probably a presbytery style of polity.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I did say BASICALLY. There are always exceptions to most rules of thumb, but feel free to point out any.

BTW those that are NOT Presbytery/Episcopal, would more than likely be congregational.

Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican are Episcopal in government and a bunch of others are too (many Methodists for example).
Presbyterians and Reformed are Presbyterial in government.
Congregational, Baptist, independent, and non-denominational are congregational in government and so are a bunch of others.

There are other forms of government too, some are democratic at various levels and others are close to monarchical. The way Christians choose to be governed is a very complex thing.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Some months ago I was quite distressed to find myself rated 100% Orthodox and 98% Catholic on a test about one's beliefs. My bishop would chide me for that result

Interesting ... I've been meaning to take that test again and see if I've shifted.

Back on topic ... are you planning to confess???

 

[MoreCoffee]

Interesting ... I've been meaning to take that test again and see if I've shifted.

Back on topic ... are you planning to confess???

No

Tests are not a sin, I hope ...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am not crazy. (My mother had me tested.) ~ Sheldon Cooper.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican are Episcopal in government and a bunch of others are too (many Methodists for example).
Presbyterians and Reformed are Presbyterial in government.
Congregational, Baptist, independent, and non-denominational are congregational in government and so are a bunch of others.

There are other forms of government too, some are democratic at various levels and others are close to monarchical. The way Christians choose to be governed is a very complex thing.

Do you really mean Baptists are congregational?

Maybe it's just large-scale but ... there are MANY southern Baptist churches. There is the Southern Baptist Convention, who used to quarterly donate a sizable sum to a Baptist university I once worked at (it was my job to receive donations).

I thought it was overall a pretty large governmental structure?

Maybe I'm not understanding though.

 

[~Anastasia~]

No

Tests are not a sin, I hope ...

Never saw in Scripture that it was (unless you're numbering a nation).

I meant confess the results.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Do you really mean Baptists are congregational?

Maybe it's just large-scale but ... there are MANY southern Baptist churches. There is the Southern Baptist Convention, who used to quarterly donate a sizable sum to a Baptist university I once worked at (it was my job to receive donations).

I thought it was overall a pretty large governmental structure?

Maybe I'm not understanding though.

Yep, that is what I mean

A southern Baptist church is owned by its own body corporate so the worst the convention can do to them is kick them out if their pastor or some leader is doing naughty things (from the convention's perspective).