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Col 2:16 is about not judging others

disciple1

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In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
You missed the chapter before that.
Romans chapter 7
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
 
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BobRyan

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Like I said no one obeys the Sabbath. .

In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

You missed the chapter before that.
Romans chapter 7
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

You missed Chapter 7 and the chapter before that

Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

What IS SIN?
"SIN IS Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT

Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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BobRyan

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You missed the chapter before that.
Romans chapter 7
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Here is what you missed in all of Chapter 7

Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

all bound by the LAW - all obligated to keep it - all guilty as sinners - "transgression of the LAW" -- sinners.

Having just established in Chapter 6 "The wages of SIN is DEATH" - we see that for the saints - that death takes place - in Christ our substitute and in the New Birth new life begins,

Romans 7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

That "We" that are now "joined to ANOTHER" is the same "WE" that were formerly bound by the LAW as sinners as transgressors - as those who needed salvation.

Romans 7
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

What about making an evil-thing out of the LAW of God - blaming God and His LAW for our sin? Does Paul allow that?

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

As Paul notes in Romans 4 - "where there is no LAW there is no SIN".
"Sin IS TRANSGRESSION of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The wicked there is apparent "life" outside of being aware of the full requirement of the LAW of God -- and being oblivious to the Romans 3:19-21 fact that they are bound by the LAW as sinners.

Romans 7
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Paul describes the sinful nature and its war against the LAW of God

Romans 7
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Very few here will dare to quote that text at the same time as declaring they are at WAR with the LAW of God. The two positions are opposed to each other.

Romans 7
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Instead of Paul declaring himself to be at WAR with God's LAW -- he says he fully affirms it - admits that it is good, holy, just and Spiritual - but that HE has a sinful nature that seeks to be at WAR with the LAW of God.

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
 
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disciple1

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In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.



You missed Chapter 7 and the chapter before that

Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

What IS SIN?
"SIN IS Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT

Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
But everyone sins, I know some people have twisted the bible so they say well I don't keep the law perfectly but I do keep it, that's not true as I'll show you here.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point their guilty of breaking all of it.
 
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BobRyan

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In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


But everyone sins,

Romans 3 "ALL HAVE SINNED"


But the Bible makes it clear that there is only ONE group that is in this condition described as follows ---

Romans 8

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7 - Paul constrasts TWO LAWs -
1. The LAW of GOD - holy just and good, spiritual that condemns all mankind as sinners.
2. The LAW of sin - the LAW of sin and death that is at WAR against the LAW of God.

I choose NOT to be at WAR against the LAW of God
 
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disciple1

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In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.




Romans 3 "ALL HAVE SINNED"


But the Bible makes it clear that there is only ONE group that is in this condition described as follows ---

Romans 8

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7 - Paul constrasts TWO LAWs -
1. The LAW of GOD - holy just and good, spiritual that condemns all mankind as sinners.
2. The LAW of sin - the LAW of sin and death that is at WAR against the LAW of God.

I choose NOT to be at WAR against the LAW of God
1 Corinthians chapter 15 verse 17
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
My understanding of this is if you have faith that expresses itself in love you are no longer guilty of sin, but if you believe you have to obey the law, your guilty of every sin even if you only sin a little.
 
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BobRyan

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1 Corinthians chapter 15 verse 17
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
My understanding of this is if you have faith that expresses itself in love you are no longer guilty of sin, but if you believe you have to obey the law, your guilty of every sin even if you only sin a little.

Do you bend the Bible to oppose the Bible in that case ... notice that you appear to suggest that "Love" is at war with the "Commandments of God" when in fact 1 John 5:3-4 states the exact opposite.
 
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disciple1

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Do you bend the Bible to oppose the Bible in that case ... notice that you appear to suggest that "Love" is at war with the "Commandments of God" when in fact 1 John 5:3-4 states the exact opposite.
These verses show no law makes anything perfect.
Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
verse 18 and 19 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless for the law made nothing perfect and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Think to your self what if everyone try's to obey the law as you suggest, there would still be terrorism and war, but if everyone tried to love, all there would be is people helping each other.
The verses above show the law makes nothing perfect.
There was war in King Davids time, but not everyone was trying to love.
 
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Bob S

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In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
I see that you did not take Disciple"s admonition personally.

Disciple 1 wrote: Like I said no one obeys the Sabbath. .
 
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masmpg

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What many on here are trying to spread is that the Torah observance you detest, is the same commands written in the New Testament.

Me and others on here are not part of a cult or been influenced by one, what we are are one who taken taken off the modern day Christian goggles that blind you from seeing the reality of the bible and following theology school teaching as truth over the bible.

You speak against the Torah and always mention the New Covenant, when the laws of the New Covenant are pulled right from the OT. We all agree we are under a New covenant that was spoken of in Jer 31 & Hebrews 8. It has also been made extremely clear that not everything in the Torah applies since the animals sacrifices were replaced by the blood of Christ, there is no temple or nation of Israel government set up, so those commands dont apply either. Just about everything else regards morality still applies.


Old Covenant was written on stones with the blood of animals covering your sins.
New Covenant is written on your heart with the blood of Christ covering your sins.


IF it is impossible to keep Gods commands, why did God say repeatedly to keep his commands. God is not expecting perfection out of us, we will sin and the blood of Christ covers your sins now.

You keep thinking of them as practicing rituals, but they were done in the OT and NT. How is Christians celebrating Easter & Christmas, going to church every Sunday, taking communion any different of a ritual than biblical days of keeping the Sabbath & Feast Days?


Spreading the word is the same as Jesus did, repent of your sins and follow the commands of God. Sin is defined as breaking the commandments, which man kind does like crazy and doesn't repent. This is where believers can show them purpose of Jesus and a relationship with him.

Grace is what God gives you for breaking his law. You cant be under the law unless you are breaking it and not repenting.

YES! I like this last quote. Many seem to think that when they are obeying a law they are under the law. But that is not so. If I am speeding I am under the speed limit law,and if I get a ticket I go before the judge and he can eithergive me grace by dismissing my penalty or he can fine me to the full extent of the law. The question I ask in this scenario is, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE LAW? The same goes for the TEN commandments. They only point out sin and nothing else so to argue the law, the law, is moot!

The blood of Christ will only cover confessed sins.

Furthermore, the "handwriting of ordinances" are the same handwriting we find that Moses wrote in a book in Deuteronomy:31:24-26: And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." The wording of this context is similar to that of what Paul wrote about the "handwriting of ordinances". Paul states that the ordinances are "contrary to us" Moses wrote "against us". The TEN commandments have never been called ordinances, nor contrary to us. The ceremonial law which Moses wrote in a book, or "the book of the law" which was read every sabbath until Jesus came, had writings of curses and blessings.The TEN commandments are a blessing.
 
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bbbbbbb

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YES! I like this last quote. Many seem to think that when they are obeying a law they are under the law. But that is not so. If I am speeding I am under the speed limit law,and if I get a ticket I go before the judge and he can eithergive me grace by dismissing my penalty or he can fine me to the full extent of the law. The question I ask in this scenario is, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE LAW? The same goes for the TEN commandments. They only point out sin and nothing else so to argue the law, the law, is moot!

The blood of Christ will only cover confessed sins.

Furthermore, the "handwriting of ordinances" are the same handwriting we find that Moses wrote in a book in Deuteronomy:31:24-26: And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee." The wording of this context is similar to that of what Paul wrote about the "handwriting of ordinances". Paul states that the ordinances are "contrary to us" Moses wrote "against us". The TEN commandments have never been called ordinances, nor contrary to us. The ceremonial law which Moses wrote in a book, or "the book of the law" which was read every sabbath until Jesus came, had writings of curses and blessings.The TEN commandments are a blessing.

This might come as a surprise to you, but in the United States of America, a judge who dismisses a guilty verdict because he is exercising "grace" will be summarily disbarred as a judge. The only individual in the government who can do such things legally is the chief executive in federal cases and governors in state cases.
 
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BobRyan

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Like I said no one obeys the Sabbath. .

In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

I see that you did not take Disciple"s admonition personally.

his wild speculation was directly refuted by Paul in Romans 8 - so then -- ignoring every detail Paul writes in that regard in the text quoted in Romans 8 -- you respond with your own spin.

You have free will - you can choose to go down that road if you wish.
 
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BobRyan

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1 Corinthians chapter 15 verse 17
And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
My understanding of this is if you have faith that expresses itself in love you are no longer guilty of sin, but if you believe you have to obey the law, your guilty of every sin even if you only sin a little.

Do you bend the Bible to oppose the Bible in that case ... notice that you appear to suggest that "Love" is at war with the "Commandments of God" when in fact 1 John 5:3-4 states the exact opposite.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


These verses show no law makes anything perfect.

That is not the point 1 John 5 is making about the saints. 1 John 5 is showing us the truth of Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Which directly refutes the speculation that Keeping God's Commandments is to be at war with God's Word arguing that if you believe you have to obey God's Word then you are guilty of gross sin.

That non-biblical idea is not even taught in Hebrews 7 when it comes to mere temporal topics like the Levitical priesthood - and the fact that there are no more earthly priests after the cross as per the Word of God.

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
 
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masmpg

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This might come as a surprise to you, but in the United States of America, a judge who dismisses a guilty verdict because he is exercising "grace" will be summarily disbarred as a judge. The only individual in the government who can do such things legally is the chief executive in federal cases and governors in state cases.

Really???? Have you ever gotten a traffic ticket and went before the judge to argue it and it was dismissed? Local judges have that power.
 
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disciple1

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Do you bend the Bible to oppose the Bible in that case ... notice that you appear to suggest that "Love" is at war with the "Commandments of God" when in fact 1 John 5:3-4 states the exact opposite.

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.




That is not the point 1 John 5 is making about the saints. 1 John 5 is showing us the truth of Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Which directly refutes the speculation that Keeping God's Commandments is to be at war with God's Word arguing that if you believe you have to obey God's Word then you are guilty of gross sin.

That non-biblical idea is not even taught in Hebrews 7 when it comes to mere temporal topics like the Levitical priesthood - and the fact that there are no more earthly priests after the cross as per the Word of God.

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
It's possible to prove anything if you don't know the bible or understand it.
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
No one keeps even one of the laws in the bible, unless it's to love.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Really???? Have you ever gotten a traffic ticket and went before the judge to argue it and it was dismissed? Local judges have that power.

Was the traffic ticket dismissed because of the whim of the judge? I think not. Judges do have leeway to determine penalties for almost every crime, but they cannot exceed those bounds. Thus, a judge cannot prescribe the death penalty for jaywalking. He can, however, dismiss the charge if it is the first such offense. For a repeat offender, however, leniency is not allowed.
 
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Ken Rank

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I like how you had to find a modern day translation to fit your argument. Go back to original versions where is is more clear he is saying to not let anyone judge you for keep them, NOT for ignoring them.
Amen. Couple of quick observations...

If Paul is saying not to let anyone judge you about these things, then the inference is that you ARE doing them and thus should not concern yourself with any judgement by man against you. The context is very clear, especially in the underlying language, and you did well to point that out.

Notice too, that it says (in most translations AND the Greek), "which ARE A SHADOW of things to come." (Present tense) That means they STILL point and even with the modern definition of "fulfill" used today, the present tense makes that definition of no effect. In other words, if "fulfill" means we don't have to do them (that is a horrible definition BTW, but is how Christianity treats that word), and they are shadows that STILL POINT to things to come, then it would be an inconsistent conclusion based on how we treat the law in the NT to not do them. See what I mean? Christians say we don't have to concern ourselves with the law because Yeshua fulfilled it... yet in this verse, the feasts, new moons, etc., are still pointing to thing that WILL COME which means, by their reasoning, we should still be doing them until the "will come" comes.

As an aside, I do find it interesting that he has already shed his blood and Christians take part each week in a shadow that points to something that happened already, was fulfilled... and they do it without reservation while claiming we don't need to take part in shadows. I have always found this to be a little inconsistent especially when Col. 2:6-7 claims to be speaking of something unfulfilled.

Lastly, I pointed out "most translations and the Greek" have this in present tense. The NIV (and a few others) do not, they slyly go against the Greek by saying, "These are a shadow of the things that were to come." There is no past tense in the verse in Greek.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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Dkh587

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No one keeps even one of the laws in the bible, unless it's to love.
Not true according to the Scriptures

Luke 1:5-6 ESV
In the days of Herod, king of Yahudah, there was a priest named ZechariYah, of the division of AbiYah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of YAH
 
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masmpg

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It's possible to prove anything if you don't know the bible or understand it.

No one keeps even one of the laws in the bible, unless it's to love.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Here is what 1John:1:8: says "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Quite a difference between "says" and "claims". If we SAY we have no sin we are sinning because pride leads to all sin. Nowhere in the bible are we told we cannot stop sinning, nor are we told that we will never overcome all sin in our lives. AAMOF the Jesus gives great rewards to the "overcomers" in revelation.

If you stumble at one point you are sing no matter which if the ten commandments you break because sin is, according to biblical definition in 1John:3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
 
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Ken Rank

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No one keeps even one of the laws in the bible, unless it's to love.

Have you or are you planning to murder anyone, any time soon... or are you refraining from such a thing? Since, "do not murder" is a law, and you are refraining from it... how are you not keeping even one?

If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Yes, and that is because the law in and of itself doesn't save, so what? That doesn't abrogate being obedient to God. John wrote that the love of God is keeping His commandments... we STILL obey and when and if we fail, we have an advocate in messiah.
 
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