Col 2:16 is about not judging others

[BobRyan]

As for Col 2 -- condemning the traditions and doctrines of man - and upholding the Word of God --

Col 2 is opposed to making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB[/QUOTE]


Still it is true that both the Baptist Confession of Faith - and also the Westminster Confession of Faith admit to the bible detail you are rejecting

What is more - Romans 3 19-21 spells it out for you

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

Which is exactly how the Baptist Confession of Faith - and also the Westminster Confession of Faith define the term " 'moral law" -- the one that defines what sin is
====================================================

Details so obvious that even the Sunday groups admit to them when it comes to the TEN Commandments.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

I did not know you had become a Baptist or a Presbyterian, recently.

It is called "objectivity" ... pointing to Bible details so incredibly obvious that BOTH sides admit to them.

 

[BABerean2]

It is called "objectivity" ... pointing to Bible details so incredibly obvious that BOTH sides admit to them.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.




Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[BobRyan]

it is true that both the Baptist Confession of Faith - and also the Westminster Confession of Faith admit to the bible detail you are rejecting

What is more - Romans 3 19-21 spells it out for you

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW"

Which is exactly how the Baptist Confession of Faith - and also the Westminster Confession of Faith define the term " 'moral law" -- the one that defines what sin is

I did not know you had become a Baptist or a Presbyterian, recently.

i never said I was a member of those groups as we both know.
I also never say that you have to be a member of their group "to read" what they write.

Obviously.

Thus -- the point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.


Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.




Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake


Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.

1. NEW Covenant "made with house of Israel and house of Judah" Heb 8:6-12 is where "God writes His LAW on the heart and mind" -- Jer 31:31-33 - the LAW that Jeremiah knew about.

2. Gal 4 - "cast out the bondwoman" is not even remotely talking about deleting the Commandments of God that say "do not take God's name in vain" -- as even D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 freely admit.

Irrefutable

 

[BABerean2]

1. NEW Covenant "made with house of Israel and house of Judah" Heb 8:6-12 is where "God writes His LAW on the heart and mind" -- Jer 31:31-33 - the LAW that Jeremiah knew about.

2. Gal 4 - "cast out the bondwoman" is not even remotely talking about deleting the Commandments of God that say "do not take God's name in vain" -- as even D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 freely admit.

Irrefutable

Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(There are two different sets of commandments in the verse above.)


Act 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(Peter could not have been talking about circumcision, because it was something they did bear.)


2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
(Above we find a contrast between the New Covenant and the Sinai Covenant.)


Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

We also find a clear contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant in the passage above from Hebrews chapter 12.

Your efforts to make the New Covenant and the Sinai Covenant one and the same will not wash, based on these passages.

We should not care what man-made confessions of faith say, or what men like Moody say, or what women like Ellen White say.

What does God say?


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

 

[BobRyan]

1. NEW Covenant "made with house of Israel and house of Judah" Heb 8:6-12 is where "God writes His LAW on the heart and mind" -- Jer 31:31-33 - the LAW that Jeremiah knew about.

2. Gal 4 - "cast out the bondwoman" is not even remotely talking about deleting the Commandments of God that say "do not take God's name in vain" -- as even D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 freely admit.

Irrefutable

Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(There are two different sets of commandments in the verse above.)

And then he is asked "WHICH commandments" Matt 19.

And what does He say?

The same ones known to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-33 are what Christ's lists in Matthew 19

 

[BABerean2]

And then he is asked "WHICH commandments" Matt 19.

And what does He say?

The same ones known to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-33 are what Christ's lists in Matthew 19

Surely you understand that the Old Covenant was still in effect until Christ fulfilled it perfectly and sacrificed Himself at Calvary, for those of us who could never keep it.

If you can keep the Old Covenant, then why did Jesus have to die?


The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15 and continues to the present time.
Modern day Judaisers claim the New Covenant and the Old Covenant are really one and the same.

If they are the same, why did Peter call the Law of Moses a "yoke" which they could not bear in Acts chapter 15?

Why did Paul compare the Sinai Covenant to "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31, where he also compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the covenant of "the bondwoman"?

Why did Paul call the Old Covenant "the ministry of death" engraved on stones in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?

Why did the author of Hebrews say the Old Covenant is "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13?

Why did the same author contrast the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in Hebrews 12:18-24?

Either the authors above are wrong or you are wrong.

The confusion between the two covenants has been very destructive to the New Covenant Church, since the time of the Apostles.

Some of us know the truth plainly written in God's Word, but are unable to admit that their doctrine is wrong and therefore continue in the error.


2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

.

 

[BobRyan]

1. NEW Covenant "made with house of Israel and house of Judah" Heb 8:6-12 is where "God writes His LAW on the heart and mind" -- Jer 31:31-33 - the LAW that Jeremiah knew about.

2. Gal 4 - "cast out the bondwoman" is not even remotely talking about deleting the Commandments of God that say "do not take God's name in vain" -- as even D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19 and the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19 freely admit.

Irrefutable

Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(There are two different sets of commandments in the verse above.)

And then he is asked "WHICH commandments" Matt 19.

And what does He say?

The same ones known to Jeremiah in Jer 31:31-33 are what Christ's lists in Matthew 19

Surely you understand that the Old Covenant was still in effect until Christ fulfilled it perfectly and sacrificed Himself at Calvary, for those of us who could never keep it.

You "appear" to be arguing that Christ gave the wrong answer -- the OT answer "not for Christians"
You "appear" to be arguing that Christians should pay no attention to the teaching of Christ in the Gospels.
you "appear" to be arguing that IF we were to give the answer to "WHICH ONES" after the cross we would be careful to avoid the answer that Christ gave.

Sadly ... you would be wrong.

Christ's TEACHING - Matthew 19

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”
And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Exodus 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; and (Ex 20:12)
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 -- Leviticus 19:18

Matt 22
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him,
“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ Deut 6:5
38 This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Lev 19:18
40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

All of scripture firmly founded on those TWO Mosaic Commandments -- yet "you" say we should ignore the pre-cross teaching of Christ!!! WOW!!

=========================

AFTER the CROSS!!

Romans 13

8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

WHAT LAW Paul?? What LAW shall we "FULFILL"???


9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Exo 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20 -- and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But "you BABerean2 say" that we should not accept the teaching of Christ -- and yet there it is in the case of Paul - upholding the teaching of Christ even AFTER the cross !!

How nice... "for me"!! How nice for whoever would like to follow Christ's teaching!!

And what is great is that these commandments in included in the LAW that Jeremiah knew about as he referenced it in the "NEW COVENANT" where God says "I will write My LAW on their heart".

As is freely admitted about all TEN of the TEN Commandment -- by
the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Sectn 19
the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19
D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments.

 

[BABerean2]

Christ's TEACHING - Matthew 19

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”
And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Exodus 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; and (Ex 20:12)
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 -- Leviticus 19:18

The young man said that he had kept all of these commandments since his youth.

Instead of calling him a liar, Christ pushed him one step farther.

So you are like the young man in Matthew chapter 19, in that you have kept all of the commandments.

Therefore, like the young man you have claimed to have kept these commandments and have saved yourself through your own works.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


.

 

[BobRyan]

The young man said that he had kept all of these commandments since his youth.

Instead of calling him a liar, Christ pushed him one step farther.

.

hint: Paul gives the same list...

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

What are these commandments for the Christian?

"read" Romans 13 -- they are unchanged

Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

 

[BABerean2]

hint: Paul gives the same list...

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.



"read" Romans 13 -- they are unchanged

Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

If you attempt to ignore the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians chapter 4 you might be able to make the above work.

If you ignore the "ministry of death" engraved on stones in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, you might be able to make the above work.

If you ignore the "yoke" of the Judaisers in Acts chapter 10, you might be able to make the above work.

If you ignore the clear contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24, you might be able to make the above work.

However, do not expect the rest of us to cut those passages out of our Bible.


The Old Covenant/ New Covenant and the Sabbath

.

 

[BobRyan]

The young man said that he had kept all of these commandments since his youth.

Instead of calling him a liar, Christ pushed him one step farther.

.

hint: Paul gives the same list...

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

What are these commandments for the Christian?

"read" Romans 13 -- they are unchanged

Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

If you attempt to ignore the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians chapter 4 you might be able to make the above work.

Turns out... those quotes of the Bible I provided work perfectly when we do not choose to ignore the details in those texts.

If you ignore the "ministry of death" engraved on stones in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, you might be able to make the above work.

On the contrary the LAW of God... the COMMANDMENTS of God - that say things like "Do not take God's name in vain" and "Honor your father and mother" are AFFIRMED by NT saints rather than "denied by them". And we all know it.

"Read" - Ephesians 6:2

What you are doing is pointing to the 2 Cor 3 statement about that same LAW - held merely external - and not written on the heart. Which is the lost condition as we all agree.

Details matter.

 

[BABerean2]

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Based on what you are saying, you can save yourself by keeping the commandments.

You do not need Christ, if you are keeping the commandments...

.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Based on what you are saying, you can save yourself by keeping the commandments.
You do not need Christ, if you are keeping the commandments...

Correct, Contrary what SDA BobRyan, blundering as usual, says, one can NOT Q~save yourself by keeping the commandments.~Q

But wrong, Q~You do not need Christ, if you are keeping the commandments...~Q
No one can, no one does, 'keep the Sabbath'; but, even though one did 'keep the Sabbath', even perfectly, he still 'needs Christ' 100% as if he never kept the Sabbath.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Surely you understand that the Old Covenant was still in effect until Christ fulfilled it perfectly and sacrificed Himself at Calvary, for those of us who could never keep it.

If you can keep the Old Covenant, then why did Jesus have to die?


The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15 and continues to the present time.
Modern day Judaisers claim the New Covenant and the Old Covenant are really one and the same.

If they are the same, why did Peter call the Law of Moses a "yoke" which they could not bear in Acts chapter 15?

Why did Paul compare the Sinai Covenant to "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31, where he also compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the covenant of "the bondwoman"?

Why did Paul call the Old Covenant "the ministry of death" engraved on stones in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8?

Why did the author of Hebrews say the Old Covenant is "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13?

Why did the same author contrast the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in Hebrews 12:18-24?

Either the authors above are wrong or you are wrong.

The confusion between the two covenants has been very destructive to the New Covenant Church, since the time of the Apostles.

Some of us know the truth plainly written in God's Word, but are unable to admit that their doctrine is wrong and therefore continue in the error.


2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The old covenant NEVER was God's Covenant; it EVER has been man's covenant. BOTH covenants to this day hold, God's, the Everlasting Covenant of Grace; and man's, its end fast approaching as Jesus' second coming is becoming more imminent day by day.

 

[BobRyan]

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Romans 13 -- they are unchanged
Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


In Mathew 19 when Christ is asked "what commandments" He does not quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

Turns out... those quotes of the Bible I provided work perfectly when we do not choose to ignore the details in those texts.

the LAW of God... the COMMANDMENTS of God - that say things like "Do not take God's name in vain" and "Honor your father and mother" are AFFIRMED by NT saints rather than "denied by them". And we all know it.

"Read" - Ephesians 6:2

2 Cor 3 makes statements about that same LAW - held merely external - and not written on the heart. Which is the lost condition as we all agree.

Details matter.

Based on what you are saying, you can save yourself by keeping the commandments.

You merely "quoted you" just then. Creative writing is not the answer to every Bible details that does not fit your narrative. I don't say "save yourself" and I don't say "the lost can perfectly obey God".. and we both know it.

Is it because the texts I am quoting don't fit "your narrative"?

Better than "watch my video" is -- "here, actually read this text I am posting".

The point remains.

 

[BABerean2]

The old covenant NEVER was God's Covenant; it EVER has been man's covenant. BOTH covenants to this day hold

Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", which is "the ministry of death" engraved on stone from 2 Corinthians.


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.




2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

There is also a clear contrast between the two covenants in Hebrews 12:18-24.

.

 

[1stcenturylady]

God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Romans 13 -- they are unchanged
Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


In Mathew 19 when Christ is asked "what commandments" He does not quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

Turns out... those quotes of the Bible I provided work perfectly when we do not choose to ignore the details in those texts.

the LAW of God... the COMMANDMENTS of God - that say things like "Do not take God's name in vain" and "Honor your father and mother" are AFFIRMED by NT saints rather than "denied by them". And we all know it.

"Read" - Ephesians 6:2

2 Cor 3 makes statements about that same LAW - held merely external - and not written on the heart. Which is the lost condition as we all agree.

Details matter.



You merely "quoted you" just then. Creative writing is not the answer to every Bible details that does not fit your narrative. I don't say "save yourself" and I don't say "the lost can perfectly obey God".. and we both know it.

Is it because the texts I am quoting don't fit "your narrative"?

Better than "watch my video" is -- "here, actually read this text I am posting".

The point remains.

So can you answer these question?

What does it mean to be dead to sin???

How is that possible???

What does it mean that a Christian cannot sin?

I really want to see if you study anything besides the Sabbath and the Law.

 

[Joelthe vicious]

So can you answer these question?

What does it mean to be dead to sin???

How is that possible???

What does it mean that a Christian cannot sin?

I really want to see if you study anything besides the Sabbath and the Law.

'What does it mean to be dead to sin?'

It does not mean 'that a Christian cannot sin'.

'How is it possible to be dead to sin?'

In Christ who died for sin "in Whom we co-died together with Him" it is not only 'possible', it is "The Good News of The Power of God to save".

 

[Joelthe vicious]

Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", which is "the ministry of death" engraved on stone from 2 Corinthians.

No objection. Paul meant the Galatians to cast out man's covenant of unfaithfulness. But Galatians is not 2Corinthians. Sorry.