Cloud Formations...?

[parousia70]

Um.. I do.


Can you show me that in the Bible?

Sure, done it several times before her but happy to do so again.

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father. Jesus promised his apostles that he would return in their lifetimes "in the glory of the Father" (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).
There can be no doubt that the Rev 14:14-20 passage makes clear that it is a coming in the heavenlies like unto the many O.T. Jehovah comings (cf. Isa 19:1-2; Deut 33:2; 2 Sam 22:7-16; Zech 9:13-16; Zeph 1:2-5; Isaiah 31, Neh 9:13-15; Hab 3:3-16; etc.). Jehovah came often in O.T. times, yet his presence, which always performed the desolations, was potent and invisible. Jesus had promised that he was to come "in the glory of the Father.

Furthermore, the vengeance of God in those last days (Heb 1:1-2; James 5:3; Acts 2:15-17) had worldwide impact. A last-days famine hit the whole empire (Acts 11:28 ), God was striking down kings (Acts 12:20-23) as well as the emperor-gods (Nero, Galba, etc), Rome burned, and the world Temple of Jupiter was destroyed in AD 69. That Day of the Lord, the greatest of all those before it, did come upon the whole world as prophesied. Christ's Church emerged victorious and has become the greatest empire known to mankind.

If one understands what the Day of the Lord was, and if one is very familiar with the many historic Day-of-the-Lord judgments that transpired in Old Testament times, then one quickly understands that the DofJ was, by nature, to be a Day of the Lord event just like those in O.T. times.
Christ's return at AD 67-70 was precisely in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's Old-Testament-era comings. We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

​

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16). Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20). Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.

Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth, came in the glory of the Father and did so in the lifetimes of the apostles, at the DofJ, exactly as he promised (Matt 16:27-28; 24:33-34).

 

[Shocker]

Sure, done it several times before her but happy to do so again.

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father. Jesus promised his apostles that he would return in their lifetimes "in the glory of the Father" (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).
There can be no doubt that the Rev 14:14-20 passage makes clear that it is a coming in the heavenlies like unto the many O.T. Jehovah comings (cf. Isa 19:1-2; Deut 33:2; 2 Sam 22:7-16; Zech 9:13-16; Zeph 1:2-5; Isaiah 31, Neh 9:13-15; Hab 3:3-16; etc.). Jehovah came often in O.T. times, yet his presence, which always performed the desolations, was potent and invisible. Jesus had promised that he was to come "in the glory of the Father.

Furthermore, the vengeance of God in those last days (Heb 1:1-2; James 5:3; Acts 2:15-17) had worldwide impact. A last-days famine hit the whole empire (Acts 11:28 ), God was striking down kings (Acts 12:20-23) as well as the emperor-gods (Nero, Galba, etc), Rome burned, and the world Temple of Jupiter was destroyed in AD 69. That Day of the Lord, the greatest of all those before it, did come upon the whole world as prophesied. Christ's Church emerged victorious and has become the greatest empire known to mankind.

If one understands what the Day of the Lord was, and if one is very familiar with the many historic Day-of-the-Lord judgments that transpired in Old Testament times, then one quickly understands that the DofJ was, by nature, to be a Day of the Lord event just like those in O.T. times.
Christ's return at AD 67-70 was precisely in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's Old-Testament-era comings. We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

​

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16). Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20). Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.

Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth, came in the glory of the Father and did so in the lifetimes of the apostles, at the DofJ, exactly as he promised (Matt 16:27-28; 24:33-34).

All that to negate the simple truth of one verse.

Mat_24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



Sounds confusing, but thx for your time, I didn't realize how allegorized you were going to make it in order to refute it.

Quite frankly, I find that doctrine disturbing.

 

[interpreter]

Thanks interpreter.

I find this at odds with scripture because of what Peter says to the Israelites.. how that the heaven must receive Jesus Christ until the times of the restitution of all things.

You're saying that He has already come again twice since Peter said this..

Jesus taught His disciples to pray "Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven." That prayer was first fulfilled in 312AD, when Jesus returned with His kingdom.

 

[Old Timer]

Jesus taught His disciples to pray "Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven." That prayer was first fulfilled in 312AD, when Jesus returned with His kingdom.

Oh boy... you believe that this present evil world is the kingdom of God on earth?

 

[Old Timer]

Sure, done it several times before her but happy to do so again.

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father. Jesus promised his apostles that he would return in their lifetimes "in the glory of the Father" (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34).
There can be no doubt that the Rev 14:14-20 passage makes clear that it is a coming in the heavenlies like unto the many O.T. Jehovah comings (cf. Isa 19:1-2; Deut 33:2; 2 Sam 22:7-16; Zech 9:13-16; Zeph 1:2-5; Isaiah 31, Neh 9:13-15; Hab 3:3-16; etc.). Jehovah came often in O.T. times, yet his presence, which always performed the desolations, was potent and invisible. Jesus had promised that he was to come "in the glory of the Father.

Furthermore, the vengeance of God in those last days (Heb 1:1-2; James 5:3; Acts 2:15-17) had worldwide impact. A last-days famine hit the whole empire (Acts 11:28 ), God was striking down kings (Acts 12:20-23) as well as the emperor-gods (Nero, Galba, etc), Rome burned, and the world Temple of Jupiter was destroyed in AD 69. That Day of the Lord, the greatest of all those before it, did come upon the whole world as prophesied. Christ's Church emerged victorious and has become the greatest empire known to mankind.

If one understands what the Day of the Lord was, and if one is very familiar with the many historic Day-of-the-Lord judgments that transpired in Old Testament times, then one quickly understands that the DofJ was, by nature, to be a Day of the Lord event just like those in O.T. times.
Christ's return at AD 67-70 was precisely in the manner and tradition of Yahweh's Old-Testament-era comings. We have countless examples of the Father coming in His great glory during the Old Testamental period (be sure to note the graphic, physical descriptions and explicit "visual" connotations of Yahweh's comings):

[On Yahweh's coming to Egypt -- early 700s BC] Behold, Yahweh rides on a swift cloud, and comes to Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall tremble at his presence; and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. I will stir up the Egyptians against the Egyptians (Isaiah 19:1-2)

[On Yahweh's coming during the Maccabean Period] For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim; and I will stir up your sons, Zion, against your sons, Greece, and will make you as the sword of a mighty man. Yahweh shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning; and the Lord Yahweh will blow the trumpet, and will go with whirlwinds of the south. Yahweh of Hosts will defend them; and they shall devour, and shall tread down the sling-stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, like the corners of the altar. Yahweh their God will save them in that day (Zechariah 9:13-16)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because you are turbulent more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my ordinances, neither have done after the ordinances of the nations that are round about you; therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. I will do in you that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all your abominations (Ez 5:7-9)

[On Yahweh's coming to Israel for Babylonian Exile - 6th Century BC] As I live, says the Lord Yahweh, surely with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out, will I be king over you: and I will bring you out from the peoples, and will gather you out of the countries in which you are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with wrath poured out; and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there will I enter into judgment with you face to face...Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...Thus says Yahweh: Behold, I am against you, and will draw forth my sword out of its sheath, and will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked. Seeing then that I will cut off from you the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of its sheath against all flesh from the south to the north: and all flesh shall know that I, Yahweh, have drawn forth my sword out of its sheath (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

​

These are just a few examples of the Father's Old-Testament comings, but there are many others: Yahweh came down and shot arrows at Saul and his armies, shaking the earth's foundations and the heavens at that time (2 Sam 22:8-16); Yahweh is depicted as having destroyed the universe when he judged Israel through Babylon (Jer 4:22-30), and did so again when he judged Egypt by Babylon's King Nebuchadnezzar (Ez 32:1-16). The Father entered into judgments with Egypt and Assyria in a spectacular coming in Isaiah 31. Habakkuk's depiction of Jehovah's coming at Mt. Sinai is nothing less than apocalyptic (Hab 3:3-16). Were any of these OT comings visual, physical/literal appearances of Yahweh as the prophets describe in metaphorical prophetic language? Of course not (Jn 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12)--the Hebrews understood that no human could ever see Yahweh and live (Exodus 33:20). Importantly, these comings of the Father form the entire backdrop for the doctrine of the "coming" of Christ, for it was in this manner of the Father's glory that Christ said he would come (Matt 16:27-28; Lk. 9:26; Matt 24:33-34). As stated in Matthew 21:40-45, the Lord of the Vineyard came to the apostate leaders of first-century Israel and was The Stone that crushed them to powder, removing the Kingdom of God from them and giving it to a new Nation.

Jesus Christ, the Lord of heaven and earth, came in the glory of the Father and did so in the lifetimes of the apostles, at the DofJ, exactly as he promised (Matt 16:27-28; 24:33-34).

So how many comings is this.. I honestly lost count..

Five, ten, fifteen, twenty?

And you also believe Christ is coming again so what is that going to be..

Like the thirtieth coming of Christ?

 

[keras]

Some clarification is needed as to where Jesus is at present.
Although we are told that He went to heaven and sat at the right hand of the Father, we have many other scriptures that say He still works on earth, as a spirit being.
Matthew 28:20...I will be with you always, to the end of the age.
John 5:17 ...My Father continues to work and I must work too.
Revelation 1:12-18 Jesus appeared to John.
Acts 26:15 He appeared to Paul.
As well as that, we have many testimonies from reliable people who say Jesus appeared to them. I know one personally and it seems that Muslims who deeply cry out to the real God also receive a visitation.
Therefore this whole argument about His coming is spurious, He is among us as a spirit being now. After all that is prophesied to happen before His Return in glory, takes place, then all will see Him and those survivors in Jerusalem will say: Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.

 

[Old Timer]

Some clarification is needed as to where Jesus is at present.
Although we are told that He went to heaven and sat at the right hand of the Father, we have many other scriptures that say He still works on earth, as a spirit being.
Matthew 28:20...I will be with you always, to the end of the age.
John 5:17 ...My Father continues to work and I must work too.
Revelation 1:12-18 Jesus appeared to John.
Acts 26:15 He appeared to Paul.
As well as that, we have many testimonies from reliable people who say Jesus appeared to them. I know one personally and it seems that Muslims who deeply cry out to the real God also receive a visitation.
Therefore this whole argument about His coming is spurious, He is among us as a spirit being now. After all that is prophesied to happen before His Return in glory, takes place, then all will see Him and those survivors in Jerusalem will say: Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.

Now this is interesting indeed although the Holy Spirit and a bodily Christ are not the same thing..

We're talking about a bodily Christ coming in the cloud formations, right?

 

[Old Timer]

Obviously the Holy Spirit was sent at Pentecost following the life, ministry, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ..

And Peter tells us this about the bodily resurrected Jesus Christ..

whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Certainly different than the ministry of the Holy Spirit following the ascension of Christ.

 

[Dunbar]

We are commanded, as Gentiles to indeed have a circumcised heart.

What I am saying is that the Bible doesn't say a Gentile who has a circumcised heart is a "Jew" or "Israel".

We are a completely new creature in Christ.

Yes the bible does say that. In the new testament everything becomes spiritual. The fleshly distinction between people has been abolished. So a Jew who was circumcised is symbolic for the saved who are born again. And likewise the Gentile who was uncircumcised is symbolic for the lost or unregenerate. All classes of people can be a spiritual Jew (saved) and all classes of people can be a spiritual Gentile (lost). This would help you greatly in your study of the OT prophets.

And while I agree, many will come to Christ in the coming tribulation, even those from all walks and beliefs, the 144,000 who are sealed by God will be Jews.

As it is written.

Rev 7:4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:

But the 144,000 are not the ones mentioned in Rev 7:9.

This has already been shown to be false. If you take this literally then they must be virgins as well which is a 100% impossibility. Israel is symbolic for the saved and Gentiles are symbolic for the lost. The lost have always outnumbered the saved so the references to Ammon and Edom and Moab and Egypt and the like in the OT prophets are symbolic for unregenerate groups of people who share similarities to those original nations. For instance Esau was Jacob's brother so he could be represented by Christians who have sold their love for the gospel for wealth or popularity. It's all symbolic. The tribes of Ammon, Edom and Moab don't exist anymore so this shouldn't be that hard to understand.

This is not true, as Ive shown you, Christians do not become "Jews, or Israel".

I would classify the Jews in Israel today as spiritual Gentiles because they reject Christ and the new covenant. They are spiritually uncircumcised.

 

[Shocker]

This has already been shown to be false. If you take this literally then they must be virgins as well which is a 100% impossibility.

Right, that means that .005% of all Jews according to the current Jewish population, would have to be virgins.

How does a number that small seem impossible to you? There are probably way more virgins than that.


Hey man, like I said, I don't do replacement theology.

It violates Gods prophecy given by the prophets, and apostles, and Jesus Christ himself.

I stand on the word alone.

I take the bible objectively, and literal. If the Bible is using an allegory or metaphor, its easy to tell because of the sentence structure and the vocabulary used.

There is only one interpretation of the Bible, and that's the one that's written.

You couldn't possibly expect me to trust what you are saying when you are adding things to scripture.

Im sure you believe in your head that you are right, and that's fine, Im not here to convert you.

 

[Shocker]

Yes the bible does say that..

Show me in scripture.

 

[Dunbar]

I already did. Just scroll back.

 

[Shocker]

I was looking for something along the lines of Gentiles are given the name "Israel or Jew" or something.

I just don't see how you are skirting these verses.

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[Dunbar]

Hey man, like I said, I don't do replacement theology.

I don't either and your lack of understanding is evident. Church is a horrible translation in the NT. A better understanding would be the 'called out ones' which are comprised of all people groups.

 

[Dunbar]

I was looking for something along the lines of Gentiles are given the name "Israel or Jew" or something.

I just don't see how you are skirting these verses.

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

That's because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. God does not want the unregenerate to understand. So he gives them lies because they hate the truth. What else can a loving and merciful God do? He gives us what our hearts longs for. Carnal Christians need not apply.

 

[Shocker]

'called out ones' which are comprised of all people groups.

settle down..

Does revelation not affirm that Christians are in fact many people?

Rev_7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

[Dunbar]

settle down..

Does revelation not affirm that Christians are in fact many people?

Rev_7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Yes and the bride of Jesus is the new Jerusalem which historically was the city of the Jews. It's all spelled out for those who want to know.

 

[Shocker]

That's because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. God does not want the unregenerate to understand. So he gives them lies because they hate the truth. What else can a loving and merciful God do? He gives us what our hearts longs for. Carnal Christians need not apply.

Indeed, there are things that require discernment, but these verses are not parables, allegories, or metaphors.

They are intended to be received as literal in context because they are written literally.

How could you even try to refute scripture?

Notice how everything means something else to you? Talk about the Gospel being hid to those that are lost..

 

[Shocker]

Yes and the bride of Jesus is the new Jerusalem which historically was the city of the Jews. It's all spelled out for those who want to know.

That, I don't want to know.

Your doctrine is completely alien to me and its not in good standing with any sound doctrine Ive ever heard.

Tit_1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Tit_2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:


2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

 

[Dunbar]

Indeed, there are things that require discernment, but these verses are not parables, allegories, or metaphors.

They are intended to be received as literal in context because they are written literally.

How could you even try to refute scripture?

Notice how everything means something else to you? Talk about the Gospel being hid to those that are lost..

I don't force my beliefs like so many others. I merely share and if you agree fine and if not, well that's fine as well.