Climate change, deforestation, mass extinction...

[zippy2]

I read you, over.

 

[Robban]

I read you, over.

Roger.

 

[Robban]

Oops

 

[fatboys]

I think we should be good stewards of our planet. I think that greedy people have polluted areas that have caused severe damage. But not globally. When a volcano erupts and spews more CO2 than man has done in his entire history and we are still here I'm not worried than man can make a dent in how the earth can repair the damage. It would be better if it wasn't damaged and we have laws to protect this from happening. But even as bad as the oil spill in Florida was a few years ago Mother Nature has taken care of it. Of course it would have been better if it had not happened but it did. But people go to far with trying to control every aspect of the environment. There has to be common sense. I will give you an example. With the help of the government I am in the process of putting in a pivot where I am sprinkling. In the arid west the government encourages farmers to save water. They have programs to help with these projects. In order for me to qualify for my project I have to stop pumping with diesel. I have been doing so for 30 years In fact I bought a bigger engine and pump so I would be ready when the time came I would qualify for one. In order for me to qualify for the pump using diesel I had to put my fuel source 250 away from the pumping unit. I would have to Bulid a containment made of cement for the tank to be surrounded by in case of a spill I would also have to put the pumping unit in a containment as well. Then they would have to send out inspectors every so often to make sure it was still in place. They said that I would not have this problem if I pumped with propane. Guess what I am doing? $25000 worth of change. In all the years I have pumped I have never spilled any diesel nog figure

 

[awitch]

When a volcano erupts and spews more CO2 than man has done in his entire history and we are still here I'm not worried than man can make a dent in how the earth can repair the damage.

Except that it's not true that a volcano spews out more than human activity.

But people go to far with trying to control every aspect of the environment.

How do you mean?

 

[Arthra]

Volcanic versus anthropogenic CO2 emissions
Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

source:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

 

[smaneck]

redundant

 

[fatboys]

redundant

Scientist are no different than any other group even farmers. Example. A few years ago Monsanto came out with a genetically modified alfalfa. It is called roundup ready. Roundup is a herbicide that kills most plants but does not have a residual that carries over in the soil as did earlier herbicides. Now they have modified

 

[smaneck]

Scientist are no different than any other group even farmers. Example. A few years ago Monsanto came out with a genetically modified alfalfa. It is called roundup ready. Roundup is a herbicide that kills most plants but does not have a residual that carries over in the soil as did earlier herbicides. Now they have modified

Sorry, I had deleted a post. Redundant was intended as my explanation. I wrote the same thing Artha did.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

All you need is this link.

 

[dlamberth]

Environmental issues may not be exactly a question of religion or faith - yet bizarrely enough, there are people out there who treat them as if they were. Bafflingly enough, conservative think tanks who feel that any change to the status quo would endanger their future profits have managed to convince a considerable portion of the population that it's all a big controversy, that the verdict is not yet in, and that those who'd call for an immediate response to these threats are loopy fanatics who don't know what's what.

I've been away on vacation and now that I'm back in scanning through the post to catch up, I see this very important OP from Jane. I thank her for bringing up this subject.

Just opening my eyes, it doesn't take a scientist to see that we are changing the earth, making it less in habitable to human beings and the creatures that we share this planet with. But science does tell us that because of human activity the oceans are becoming more acidic and polluted. We are depleting the ocean fisheries with as much as 85% of the worlds fisheries over-exploted, depleted, or fully exploited. Our clean drinking water is becoming polluted with oil spills and agriculture chemical run off. Our consumption society is depleting the earths resources. We have changed the chemical composition of the biosphere itself such that the earth is becoming unfit to live on as people get sick and die from all sorts of chemicals that we have sprayed, pumped, dumped and just plain desecrated the earth with. When I was young Asthma was a rare thing. I grew up with no one around me who had Asthma. Now it's all around me. My own grand-daughter has it. Than there is our oil addiction. There is a LONG list of pipeline spills in America alone and that isn't even going into the health side affects as it gets into our drinking water, the oceans and in the air we breath . I could go on and on. Bottom line, we are raping and desecrating the earth and the consequences are coming back to haunt us. There are just short of a billion human beings that don't have enough to eat with 21,000 daily dieing of starvation. There's enough food and money to feed them, but most of the money is tied up in a very few hands. We have a political party who lives in denial and a religious back drop of people who live for the here after rewards at the expense of what the earth needs now. Because this way of living is almost in the DNA coding of our world society, personally I see no escape other than a total reboot, which won't be pretty.

List_pipeline_splls_in_21st_centry

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Considering CO2 emissions and global warming, here's a simile to illustrate what's happening:

You've got a sink that's able to get rid of, say, 120 liters of water per hour, and can hold up to 500. Sometimes, there are sudden bursts (such as volcanic eruptions) that may come close to or even exceed those 500 liters, so there's some spillage - but before long, the sink'll be empty again and the floor will only be slightly wet.

Now, what happens if you continuously pour, say, 130 liters per hour into the drain? It's considerably less than those bursts mentioned before, so there shouldn't be a problem, right? Right? I mean, nothing much is happening at first. The water slowly accumulates, but it takes quite a while until the sink is full.
However, once the sink IS full, and the water keeps on pouring, the floor will not merely be wet for a while.

It's not a perfect analogy, but it's close enough for people who have a very limited understanding of the science to get the idea.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

t it's not true that a volcano spews out more than human activity.



How do you mean?

Who to be more fearful of? The Volcano or human activity?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Volcanic versus anthropogenic CO2 emissions
Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

source:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

There's a point where it does seem we have to be careful when it comes to the extent of concern we give to the natural world if it comes at the expense of ourselves. There was an excellent documentary on the issue that I really enjoyed that brought the issue home:

As another noted best:

Some of this casting aside of environmental concerns is theological, some of it political and some of it cultural. There is also a pushback from many Christians who do not discern the difference between radical environmentalism (or even shallow pop-environmentalism) and the Scriptural mandate from GOD our Creator to tend and keep the garden of this world.

I honestly agree with the argument that environmentalism has become somewhat of a religious movement. It espouses it’s own form of righteousness, guilt, redemption – and even a state of utopian salvation. And radical environmentalism doesn’t mince words in it’s message that humans are the enemy of the planet. But is this more radical view an undercurrent in popular views on the environment?

What is your perspective? Why do some Christians associate care for GOD’s Creation with radical environmentalism? Is radical environmentalism influencing governments and even churches today? Take a look at the documentary The War on Humans that ‘documents the decline of the environmental movement toward a Utopian and explicit anti-human ideology’.​

 

[Arthra]

"Radical" environmentalism is needed when the climate is radically changing... Cut back on fossil fuels.. Go solar ...

Already 2015 is the hottest year on record...

See:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/16/opinions/el-nino-asia-impact/index.html?sr=cnnitw

and

"Scientists have high confidence that global temperatures will continue to rise for decades to come, largely due to greenhouse gasses produced by human activities. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which includes more than 1,300 scientists from the United States and other countries, forecasts a temperature rise of 2.5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit over the next century."

http://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

 

[Robban]

"Radical" environmentalism is needed when the climate is radically changing... Cut back on fossil fuels.. Go solar ...

Already 2015 is the hottest year on record...

See:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/16/opinions/el-nino-asia-impact/index.html?sr=cnnitw

and

"Scientists have high confidence that global temperatures will continue to rise for decades to come, largely due to greenhouse gasses produced by human activities. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which includes more than 1,300 scientists from the United States and other countries, forecasts a temperature rise of 2.5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit over the next century."

http://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

Solar Power is fantastic, but winter in the north does not give many daylight hours,
And the sun is at such a low angle.

I have solar panels, only small ones, part of my experiment, next on my list is a wind generator,
even when the sun has gone it can still blow, (wind)

But still better I think would be to make use of tides,
Actually there are solutions right under our noses, just needs willingness to develop them.

 

[awitch]

Who to be more fearful of? The Volcano or human activity?

I guess that probably depends on how close you live to the active volcano.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I'm pretty close to chuckling when I see right-wing ideologues trying to smear environmentalism as a "war on humans", "anti-life", or any such nonsense. These people cannot fathom that it's not a question of Man vs. Nature. The holocene extinction event is not only threatening the lives of some "inferior" species, nor is anthropogenic global warming, natural resource depletion, or the acidification of the oceans.
We are basically defecating into our own wells and sawing off the branch we sit on, and then scoff at those who'd suggest it might be a VERY bad idea to do so.

 

[Arthra]

Solar Power is fantastic, but winter in the north does not give many daylight hours,
And the sun is at such a low angle.

I have solar panels, only small ones, part of my experiment, next on my list is a wind generator,
even when the sun has gone it can still blow, (wind)

But still better I think would be to make use of tides,
Actually there are solutions right under our noses, just needs willingness to develop them.

Thanks for sharing what you've done... We had low flush toilets installed and a drought resistant front yard replaced our grass lawn.. The City gave us a $2000. rebate...

 

[Robban]

Thanks for sharing what you've done... We had low flush toilets installed and a drought resistant front yard replaced our grass lawn.. The City gave us a $2000. rebate...

Well done Arthra, and good on the city.
heard there is a problem with water somewhere in the US

To say it like it is, I don,t know much about US,
But I have watched some you tube vids from private folks,
Epoxi repairs and other practical things,
They seem ok folks, no different from others.


Haha, should they be.

Afterthought, I have been there only once, but is was a long time ago.

.