Clarifying the Debate "basics" on Sabbath and the TEN Commandments

[Tolworth John]

Some Christians meet every day in one form or another in fellowship and have a worship service.

That is entirely different from what the OP is talking about. Read the OP (maybe even the first 3 posts) -- and let me know if some part of it brings up a question.

Whether one worships on saturday or sunday is for the christian irrelevant. salvation is not dependent on what day we worship, but on who we are trusting

 

[Freth]

Whether one worships on saturday or sunday is for the christian irrelevant. salvation is not dependent on what day we worship, but on who we are trusting

There is only one day that God set from the foundation of the world as His day of worship.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.​

Using this belief (your quote), you could easily justify breaking any of the Ten Commandments. There is no foundation if the house can be shifted.

Jesus does everything to the Father's will (Matthew 11:27, Luke 10:22, John 6:38). God does not change, Jesus does not change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8).

If we were able to choose our own day of worship, it would negate the very words written in stone by God Himself. The law would be forfeit. This is clearly not the case, as per scripture.

Before it gets quoted, Colossians 2:16-17 does not support choosing your own day of worship; as has been shown in context in various threads on this forum.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Whether one worships on saturday or sunday is for the christian irrelevant. salvation is not dependent on what day we worship, but on who we are trusting

It's actually very relevant John. Jesus says in his own words that if we follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. Gods' 4th commandments seventh day Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and as James says is we knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. So the question and test that is coming to all of us is, who do we believe and follow God or man? Only God's Word according to the scriptures is true and we should believe and follow them over man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. The hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24 or they are not worshiping God at all according to the Words of Jesus here.

 

[Bob S]

I find some very interesting comments here about whether or not the Sabbath is a man made interpretation or not and whether or not we should be still keeping it.

Could i ask that the following be answered...
Revelation 14

11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

So in the context of the passage...and the mark of the beast, who are the saints?

Are not the Commandments OF God the 10 commandments?

Hi Adam, I would like to address your thought. Yes, the ten commandments WERE the commandments of God given to Israel and only Israel. They were part of the words of the covenant, Yes, I use the term "were" because the covenant that contained the ten commandments ended at Calvary where Jesus ratified the new and better covenant for not only Israel, but for all mankind. When you completely understand what Jesus did on the ✝, you will have to come to a different conclusion than you now hold. One main key to unlock what you now hold as truth is found in Jn15 verse 10-12.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Jesus being born a Jew was under the Sinai covenant which contained the ten commandments. The Levitical priesthood ended at Calvary and our Savior Jesus Christ became the High Priest of all mankind, Heb 7:12, and He introduced new laws. He explained His main law in verse 10. Paul also proclaimed what Jesus did in Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. The Seed being Jesus and Jesus being God and the High Priest explains the meaning of "commandments of God". New covenant Christians are not under the commandments given to Israeli, we are under the commands Jesus gave us, they are God's commands. this is a lot to digest, but when you do, maybe you too will walk away from Adventism.

When I google search "commandments of God" guess what it returns...the 10 COMMANDMENTS

Why wouldn't it. They surely were.

Am i misunderstanding the google search or is it that both the Google search algorythm and obviously most often related meaning on the internet people relate with that search phrase, all consider me to be right in this...ie Its the 10 Commandments?

Most Christians do not understand the covenants. Adventists, in their misunderstanding, are at least honest. The remainder of Christians have made countless excuses why they keep all but one of them.

So if in the very first book of the Bible, we are told to Keep the Sabbath, in the middle of the Bible our Lord and Saviour Himself kept the Sabbath,

"We" were not told to keep Sabbath, Israel was and only Israel. No other nation on Earth was ever told to keep Sabbath. Oh yes, the very first book of the Bible never mentions Sabbath now does it let alone keep it.

and the very last book in the Bible we are told that "the saints" are those who keep the commandments, might someone explain how it is possible that Google and the 3 illustrations that form the theme and context for the Sabbath in the Bible i have just outlined, are all wrong in this?

WOW! if in fact, you are correct, have you done a search on how many commands God gave to His children since He created them?

What i think is wrong here, the catholic church changed the sabbath, and all christian denominations who follow along with them on this are looking for lame reasoning in order to attempt to rationalise what is a man made doctrine. The Sabbath is not the man made doctrine here, Sunday Worship is!

You have been fed tis "fact" by your church. The Catholic church didn't change the Sabbath. Christians way before the Catholic church came along were worshipping on the first day. I can claim most anything, but that does not make it true.

I wish you the best. God bless, Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Whether one worships on saturday or sunday is for the christian irrelevant. salvation is not dependent on what day we worship, but on who we are trusting

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3

"3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;" 1 John 2:3-4

Where "The first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 in that still-valid unit of TEN is "honor your father and mother" Eph 6:1-2

Resulting in this quoted fact -- for Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath Sunday debate

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians and do so in a way that is consistent with the interpretation of the Sabbath that you see in most of the Sabbath keeping groups - having the start of the Sabbath for all mankind in Eden.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Example of Bible Details leading these scholars to agree on the TEN as being included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - to this very day.

 

[BobRyan]

2. You still violate all of the other Sabbath commands of God, so does James 2:10 not condemn you as well?

It seems that your real concern is the judging of the servants of another (Romans 14:4) which is neither your responsibility nor right. Worship God on the Sabbath with my blessings and leave me free to honor our God as He has called me to. (See Romans 14)

1. Not sure who you are falsely accusing in #2 above. But as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" admits the TEN do not include civil laws nor ceremonial yet ALL TEN apply.

2. There is no "judging a servant of others" statements in any quotes but those opposing the Sabbath so far.

 

[BobRyan]

I find some very interesting comments here about whether or not the Sabbath is a man made interpretation or not and whether or not we should be still keeping it.

Could i ask that the following be answered...
Revelation 14

11And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

So in the context of the passage...and the mark of the beast, who are the saints?

"Those that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" as you point out.

Are not the Commandments OF God the 10 commandments?

As Paul points out in Eph 6:1-2 and in Rom 13
And as Christ points out in Mark 7:6-13 and in Matt 19

When I google search "commandments of God" guess what it returns...the 10 COMMANDMENTS

Yep! So it is no wonder that post #2 shows Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admitting to that glaringly obvious Bible detail.

So if in the very first book of the Bible, we are told to Keep the Sabbath, in the middle of the Bible our Lord and Saviour Himself kept the Sabbath, and the very last book in the Bible we are told that "the saints" are those who keep the commandments,

all true.

might someone explain how it is possible that Google and the 3 illustrations that form the theme and context for the Sabbath in the Bible i have just outlined, are all wrong in this?

As well as almost all Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate also wrong.. so you are making a very good point here.

Of course not everyone will agree that this is the really easy part of the discussion

ignoring all the details we can still get this repeated...

Hi Adam, I would like to address your thought. Yes, the ten commandments WERE the commandments of God given to Israel and only Israel.

Hint: New Covenant Jer 31:31-34 "just for Israel and house of Judah" by that logic above.

So the reason why almost all Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate do NOT go down that failed path is that they all know it is a sin even for someone who is NOT a Jew - to take God's name in vain.

And they know that the Bible examples we have here #30 - argue for ALL TEN.

 

[BABerean2]

And they know that the Bible examples we have here #30 - argue for ALL TEN.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

------------------------------------------


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

.

 

[atpollard]

The commandment is not quoted there. There is no quote of it in the NT or before Ex 20 in the Bible - but that does not mean it is ok to do it..

Paul condemns breaking the commandments of God in 1 Cor 7:19 but that is not a quote of Ex 20:7

How is it so unquestionably obvious if there is not even a single example of God doing it or a single verse clearly stating it?

On the other hand, it is VERY clear from scripture that Moses was sent to deliver the two tablets and the 5 books of the Torah to the children of the people that God had delivered from Egypt. The chosen nation from the bloodline of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Jerusalem Council (of Apostles) clarified that gentiles were not under the Law.

Paul clarified that the Sabbath laws were shadows and that Christians were not to judge one another for eating, drinking or Sabbaths. Each was to seek to honor God by following their conscience.

Your "obvious" is not "obvious at all. It smells of "fiat" ... true because you say it is true and your word is not to be questioned.

You have convinced me without question that God commanded the Israelites to obey the ten commandments when he made the covenant with them in Exodus. For better or worse, my fathers were never in Egypt, so God never made THAT covenant with them.

You have proved NOTHING about Christian Gentiles needing to become Jews and keep the law of Moses. Jesus said nothing about Christian Gentiles needing to become Jews and keep the law of Moses. James said Christian Gentiles DID NOT need to become Jews and keep the law of Moses. Paul said anyone that tried to make Christian Gentiles become Jews and keep the law of Moses should emasculate themselves. I will stick with Jesus and James and Paul until you can provide something other than "God commanded Jews in EXODUS" or "You say it is so obvious that scripture doesn't even need to say it".

 

[Bob S]

How is it so unquestionably obvious if there is not even a single example of God doing it or a single verse clearly stating it?

On the other hand, it is VERY clear from scripture that Moses was sent to deliver the two tablets and the 5 books of the Torah to the children of the people that God had delivered from Egypt. The chosen nation from the bloodline of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The Jerusalem Council (of Apostles) clarified that gentiles were not under the Law.

Paul clarified that the Sabbath laws were shadows and that Christians were not to judge one another for eating, drinking or Sabbaths. Each was to seek to honor God by following their conscience.

Your "obvious" is not "obvious at all. It smells of "fiat" ... true because you say it is true and your word is not to be questioned.

You have convinced me without question that God commanded the Israelites to obey the ten commandments when he made the covenant with them in Exodus. For better or worse, my fathers were never in Egypt, so God never made THAT covenant with them.

You have proved NOTHING about Christian Gentiles needing to become Jews and keep the law of Moses. Jesus said nothing about Christian Gentiles needing to become Jews and keep the law of Moses. James said Christian Gentiles DID NOT needing to become Jews and keep the law of Moses. Paul said anyone that tried to make Christian Gentiles become Jews and keep the law of Moses should emasculate themselves. I will stick with Jesus and James and Paul until you can provide something other than "God commanded Jews in EXODUS" or "You say it is so obvious that scripture doesn't even need to say it".

Amen!!! my friend. No one has said it better.

 

[BobRyan]

I am not even speaking of all TEN commandments. I am only speaking of the ONE COMMANDMENT

And "yet" as we see in post #2 - Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate freely admit that the Bible points to all TEN as included in the moral law of God, given to mankind in Eden, written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

No wonder James says that trying to snip-out 1 of them does not work --

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators. 10 For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do murder, you have become a violator of the Law. 12 So speak, and so act, as those who are to be judged by the law of freedom.

Exodus 20:8-11 [NASB]

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."​

Certainly it IS true that God's Word says that.

It also says this

Gen 2:
And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

He also said that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

No wonder in Acts 18:4 both gentiles AND Jews come back "every Sabbath" for more gospel preaching.

No wonder Is 56:6-8 specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping.

Why do you condemn others for breaking this command when you yourselves do not keep it?

Why do you condemn others with such accusations.

​

Do you "honor the Sabbath" by making sure that you require no work from anyone else on the Sabbath? ... visit no stores or restaurants

You are right that we don't cook our meals or go to stores and restaurants on Sabbath - but how is this "helping you" to try and micro manage others on this topic? (Our Sabbath meals are cooked by Friday afternoon in most cases, sometimes sooner) -- but that is not an issue "for you" it is for each person.

We will set aside the question of whether you "honor the Sabbath" by putting to death anyone that violates it (since that may be either moral law like "the wages of sin is death" or civil law like "stone the adulterer")

As both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19 fully agree that civil laws no longer apply even though ALL TEN of the Commandments do.

Bible details sooooo obvious that Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to them.

Do you "honor the Sabbath" by ensuring that EVERYONE is not doing "any work" and having a day of "complete rest" at your SDA Sabbath Services?

A. I ask again - how does it help "you" to nicke-and-dime others. Is that sort of nit-pic some kind of Bible approved way to delete one of God's Commandments. Shall we introduce the "thought crime" scope that Christ applies all the commandments then charge that we get to delete any of God's commandments so long as we found one person in violation of the "thought crime" version of it? Seriously? That is a form of Bible interpretation?

Not known to Bible scholars on BOTH side of the Sabbath debate - apparently.

your ability to "insert A/C controls" into Exodus 20 is "impressive" eisegesis -- but apparently even the pro-Sunday Bible scholars do not condone ripture of that magnitude.

=========================

The point remains that the "easy and obvious" part of this Bible topic is found in the Bible details freely admitted to by Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate. Which is the very point where your argument gets stuck.

 

[BobRyan]

Where does God condemn a gentile for taking his name in vain?

• In Romans 1, God states that is wrath is revealed against the unbelieving Gentiles for a variety of specific charges, but taking the name of the Lord in vain (or the other commandments from Sinai) are not among God’s charges.

The commandment is not quoted there. There is no quote of it in the NT or before Ex 20 in the Bible - but that does not mean it is ok to do it..

Paul condemns breaking the commandments of God in 1 Cor 7:19 but that is not a quote of Ex 20:7

In other words making stuff up does not work. Making up stuff about the commandment not be quoted so it must be ok to violate it EVEN though for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 is the infallible statement in God's Word showing continuation of that commandment "for all mankind" and for all eternity AFTER the cross.

How is it so unquestionably obvious

hmmmm... what can I say at that point since this is the very very easy part.

How about "left as a trivial exercise for the reader"??

 

[BobRyan]

it is VERY clear from scripture that Moses was sent to deliver the two tablets and the 5 books of the Torah to the children of the people that God had delivered from Egypt.

No one questions that.

What is questionable is the wild notion that it must be ok for non-Jews to take God's name in vain before Ex 20 or after it since non-Jews are not a Sinai. That is a pretty tough fiction to swallow. And as noted even the Bible Scholars that affirm Sunday and oppose the 7th day do not go to such extremes. Rather they affirm ALL TEN for all mankind ...

And No wonder gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-8 just as ALL MANKIND is under that same scope in Is 66:23 and in Mark 2:27 - for all eternity after the cross.

It just does not get any easier than this.

 

[BobRyan]

On the other hand, it is VERY clear from scripture that Moses was sent to deliver the two tablets and the 5 books of the Torah to the children of the people that God had delivered from Egypt.

The same is true of the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 given only to "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" and UNCHANGEd still in the verbatim quote of it in Heb 8:6-12. No wonder the bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate affirm this simple easy and obvious Bible detail about ALL TEN included in the moral law of God given for all mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

You have convinced me without question that God commanded the Israelites to obey the ten commandments

I doubt that since I did not write the Bible - God did.

And God is the one singling out gentiles for Sabbath keeping in Is 56:6-8.
God is the one pointing out that it applies to "all mankind" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth in Is 66:23
God is the one saying it was "made for mankind" in Mark 2:27

Bible details so obvious - that even the Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to the TEN included in the LAW of the NEW Covenant written on the heart.

You have proved NOTHING about Christian Gentiles needing to become Jews

Acts 15 makes the case that gentiles do not need to "become Jews" and in fact it was never commanded of them in OT or NT. We see gentiles in the Acts 13, and Acts 17:1-5 and Acts 18:4 Sabbath services who are not Jews but are in fact worshipers of the True God on the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

The "easy part" that Christians on "BOTH sides" agree with is that

1. Ex 20:7 "do not take God's name in vain" is one of the TEN
2. That it was a SIN to take God's name in vain in Eden and all through history NO Matter that the TEN were not on stone until after Ex 20. And it is the unit of TEN that is pulled into the reader's view by Paul in Eph 6:1-2 saying "Honor your father and mother" is "the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH a promise"
3. That it is STILL a sin to "take God's name in vain" even though that is the only commandment not quoted from in the NT.
4. That Jeremiah and is readers would have included all TEN in the Law of God written on the heart in Jer 31:31-34 under the NEW Covenant (verbatim unchanged in Heb 8:6-12)
5. That to ignore one is to ignore them all James 2
6. That Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to these details in the Bible about "the TEN".
7. That EVEN though God gave Israel the TEN Commandments and it was a SIN for them to take God's name in vain - it did mean that everyone else could take God's name in vain - and that would be just fine.

These points are so obvious - they are irrefutable.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

.

Which is not a funny kinda way - to say "gentiles can take God's name in vain -- but not Jews" -- the way you are wrenching it out of context.

you are failing at a simple Bible detail that the Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate easily master. Consider a more compelling form of the argument.

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

.

The "NEW Covenant" Jer 31:31-34 has the moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - spoken by God at Sinai - written on the heart.

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate freely admit that this means ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in it.

 

[BABerean2]

The "NEW Covenant" Jer 31:31-34 has the moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - spoken by God at Sinai - written on the heart.

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate freely admit that this means ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in it.

If your doctrine was correct, you would not have to use the invented term "the moral law" which is not found in the Bible.
The Bible scholars I know do not agree with your "the moral law".

The Christian's Sabbath: David H.J. Gay

-------------------------------------

You would also be able to address what Paul said in Galatians 4:24-31, instead of ignoring it.

.

 

[BABerean2]

Where do you think the word moral comes from? Do you know what moral means? Does God not have moral laws?

I know where the term "the moral law" comes from.

It was invented by those who wrote the Westminster Confession of Faith, and was later adopted by the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. The term "the New Covenant" is not found in either of these man-made confessions.

These confessions claim the ten commandments were given to Adam in the garden, which you have already admitted is in error.

.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I know where the term "the moral law" comes from.

It was invented by those who wrote the Westminster Confession of Faith, and was later adopted by the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. The term "the New Covenant" is not found in either of these man-made confessions.

These confessions claim the ten commandments were given to Adam in the garden, which you have already admitted is in error.

.

Let's look at what the bible says....

GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE ALL MORAL LAWS ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.

All of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment Sabbath are moral laws and our duty of love to God and our fellow man.

Let's look at what the scriptures teach on this subject further....

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.< tsedeq RIGHT DOING - MORAL>

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong -
Righteousness H6664; צדק tsedeq; tseh'-dek; From H6663; the right, natural, MORAL or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness).

RIGHTEOUSNESS is defined as the standard of MORAL RIGHT in the Hebrew which God’s Word defines as ALL GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. This of course includes God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments written with the finger of God.

The opposite of righteousness is unrighteousness as shown in this scripture here…

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death. [18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong -
UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in HEBREW (H5766) עול עול עולה עולה עלה ;‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh From H5765; MORAL EVIL: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in GREEK (G93) ἀδικία; adikia (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); MORAL WRONGFULNESS of charater, life or act: - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (ἀδικία Moral wrongfulness) IS SIN which is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is the opposite of RIGHTEOUSNESS and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is SIN *1 JOHN 5:17 and SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 then RIGHTEOUSNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) as is why it is written;

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE *RIGHTEOUSNESS.<Moral Right Doing>

ROMANS 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does GOOD (good G5544) no, not one.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5544
χρηστότης; chrēstotēs From G5543; usefulness, that is, MORAL EXCELLENCE in character or demeanor: - gentleness, good (-ness), kindness.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil companionship corrupt GOOD MORALS (G2239)

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2239
ἦθος; ēthos A strengthened form of G1485; usage, that is, (plural) MORAL HABITS: - manners

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Christian bible dictionary definitions agree with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures shown above...

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]

1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness. Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue. Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.

2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.

3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.

Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.

Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.

4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.

5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

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As shown above through the scriptures RIGHTEOUSNESS means MORAL RIGHT DOING linked to action. "All of God's commandments are righteousness" *Psalms 119:172

MORE BIBLICAL SUPPORT FOR MORAL LAWS (duty of love towards God and man)

God’s law written and spoken by God on two tables of stone (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 20:1) Exodus 20:3; Exodus 20:4-6; Exodus 20:7; Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 20:12; Exodus 20:13; Exodus 20:14; Exodus 20:15; Exodus 20:16; Exodus 20:17. Moral laws written and spoken by Moses in the book of the law or covenant (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 30:19) Leviticus 19:32; Deuteronomy 10:20; Leviticus 19:16-18; Leviticus 19:1-37 (most of which are expounding on God’s 10 commandments; Exodus 23:5; Deuteronomy 22:4; Exodus 22:21; Deuteronomy 24:19-21; Deuteronomy 15:7-11; Deuteronomy 10:19; Exodus 22:20; Exodus 21:15-17; Deuteronomy 23:18; Exodus 21:10; Deuteronomy 22:19; Leviticus 18:1-30; Exodus 23:1-12; Leviticus 25:14; 37; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 etc etc…

Yep if you love your neighbor you will not lie, steal or kill them (moral right doing - Psalms 119:172). If you love God you will not have or make other Gods and bow down to them, use God's name in vain or break His Sabbath (Exodus 20:1-17; moral right doing - Psalms 119:172).

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CONCLUSION: According to God's Word as shown in the scriptures above all of God's commandments including God's 4th commandment are MORAL LAWS (righteousness; moral right doing). Now you know where the term "Moral law" comes from in the scriptures. Now what is it that you might disagree with here?

Hope this is helpful.