The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

[SabbathBlessings]

That’s not what Paul says. Address the verse.

“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

bible.com

Read Gal 5:18-21 not being under the law clearly does not mean not keeping the law of God. As does this very passage say clearly Rom8:7-8 Unless one thinks the goal is not being in the Kingdom of Heaven

Everyone who believes in God thinks they are going to be saved. But its those who are willing to do the will of God (His version) will enter into the Kingdom of God Mat7:21-23 Rev22:14

God seperates the wheat from the tares. All gets sorted out soon enough. We are too far apart in our understanding of God’s Word and no amount of going back and forth is going to change this as it appears.

So be well and take care.

 

[Hentenza]

Read Gal 5:18-21 not being under the law clearly does not mean not keeping the law of God. As does this very passage say clearly Rom8:7-8 Unless one thinks the goal is not being in the Kingdom of Heaven

“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬-‭24‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:18-24 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strif | New American Standard Bible -

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strif

bible.com

You obviously ignored the context again. Christians belong to Christ not to the flesh. You pretend to teach salvation by faith but the reality is that you preach salvation by faith plus the law. We are led by the Spirit therefore there is no law.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This is not the Sabbath rest.

This is the word for rest. ἀναπαύω this verse. Nothing to do with the Sabbath.

Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath day holy Luke4:16 so the rest Christ gives does not take away our moral obligation to obey His commandments. I would show you the context of this verse and what Jesus is quoting but for some reason I do not think it would make a difference. I guess all will get sorted out at His soon return. Jesus tells us no one receives rest by disobeying His commandments, thats unrest Isa48:18 Rev 14:11-12

Yes it is the Sabbath rest... His Sabbath rest.

We are invited to enter His rest by faith and this invitation is not tied to an earthly day - we are invited to join Him in His eternal rest.

As we read this passage on any day of the week the promise holds.

Heb 4:
Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

“As I swore in My anger,
They certainly shall not enter My rest,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
5 and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.”
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying [c]through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
9 Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11 Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, even penetrating as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we must answer.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬-‭24‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:18-24 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strif | New American Standard Bible -

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strif

bible.com

You obviously ignored the context again. Christians belong to Christ not to the flesh. You pretend to teach salvation by faith but the reality is that you preach salvation by faith plus the law. We are led by the Spirit therefore there is no law.

You quote the Scriptures but for some reason it doesn’t seem to register.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:

NO LAW?

Theres no law for adultry, idolatry, sorcery, selfish ambitions (coveting) murder in the heart (hatred) murder. These all come from breaking the Law of God that those who practice these things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Same as what Jesus says plainly Mat5:19-30 Mat7:23 Rev22:14-15

adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Clearly not being under the law doesn’t mean we can break God’s Law breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

No one is saved in their sins Heb10:26-30 if we are in Christ we would be keeping the Law of God because we love Him, not breaking it. John14:15 Exo20:6 John15:10 and serving the works of the flesh which is not subject to the law of God Rom8:7-8

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes it is the Sabbath rest... His Sabbath rest.

We are invited to enter His rest by faith and this invitation is not tied to an earthly day - we are invited to join Him in His eternal rest.

As we read this passage on any day of the week the promise holds.

Heb 4:
Therefore, we must fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also did; but the word they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united with those who listened with faith.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,

“As I swore in My anger,
They certainly shall not enter My rest,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
5 and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.”
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 He again sets a certain day, “Today,” saying [c]through David after so long a time just as has been said before,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
9 Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11 Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same example of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, even penetrating as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him to whom we must answer.

There is nothing in this verse that changed God’s times and laws. Joshua didn’t and if you knew the story of Joshua and what they repeated right before he led the Israelites into their promised rest (land) you would know this too. David didn’t change God’s times and laws and what it’s mainly quoting is OT. I would go trough each line with you verse by verse if I thought it would make a difference. It actually quite literally tells us to keep the Sabbath that remains for God’s people. Sadly I do not think any Scripture would, God coming down from heaven and personally writing His owns Laws Himself doesn’t seem to make a difference, so my words certainly won’t either. Guess it will get sorted out soon enough

 

[Studyman]

Paul made the claim about having in his past kept the Law, as a redeemed believer - do you think he was lying ???

Carl,

I just posted Paul, Jesus and Isaiah telling you that the Law Paul zealously obeyed, even to the murder and persecution of those who Yielded themselves to God, was not God's Law, but their own.

And yet you have not even acknowledged them, not even Jesus' words.

And if I posted Paul's words in Ephesians 2:1&2, where Paul tells you again, that he was not walking in the Commandments of God that he now teaches are more important than neither Jew or Gentile. Did he Serve the Law of God with his mind while participating in the murder of Stephen?

And where did he say, as a Pharisee, that he was a redeemed believer that kept God's law?

What if Jesus was right, and Paul, as a Pharisee, was a child of the Devil.

I mean you no malice here, but we are tasked with the instruction to prove and discern teachings, especially those from men who call Jesus Lord.

Your philosophy that Paul is telling you that while he was persecuting Gods Church he was blameless in Gods Law is absurd when all of Paul's teaching is considered.

He wasn't a zealous Sadducee or a zealous Catholic, or a zealous Mormon. He was a zealous Pharisee.

He walked in and promoted the Law of the Pharisee, the Jews religion, more zealously than his brethren.

This is the truth according to Paul own words

 

[Hentenza]

You quote the Scriptures but for some reason it doesn’t seem to register.

i know. You have a problem registering what the scriptures actually say.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:

NO LAW?

No. Just works of the flesh. You are the one adding “law” to the verse. Adding to scriptures is a no-no.

Theres no law for adultry, idolatry, sorcery, selfish ambitions (coveting) murder in the heart (hatred) murder. These all come from the Law of God that those who practice these things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Same at what Jesus says plainly Mat7:23 Rev22:14-15

No.Like the verse so clearly reads, these are the works of the flesh. Again, the verse says nothing about the law.

adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Because they are in the flesh. Read verse 19 again.

Clearly not being under doesn’t mean we can break God’s Law breaking one we break them all james 2:10-12

Clearly you have no clue what you are saying. Have you not read the repetition of God’s 10 commandments into Jesus 2 love commandments, except for the 4th commandment of course. Are you on purpose ignoring those verses?

No one is saved in their sins Heb10:26-30 if we are in Christ we would be keeping the Law of God, not breaking it. John14:15 Exo20:6 John15:10

Jesus died for our sins and we are led by the Spirit. You promote an unbiblical soteriology of faith plus the works of the law.

Again, as Paul so eloquently wrote: “But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law”. This is super clear. It is either/or. You can’t get around this verse.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Who gave the Law- God, so saying the Law He said is perfect Psa 19:7 holy, just and good Rom7:12 was at fault IS saying God is at fault.

It doesn’t say the covenant was at fault, the law of God written by the Holy Spirit of Truth was not the problem as if only worshipping God is a problem, or not stealing from our neighbor is a problem. The next verse tells us where the fault was plainly, but feel free to keep not posting the context, it doesn’t make God’s Truth any less Truth, it just covers it. Only the Truth sets us free.

Take care

What can we do ? how can we discuss this when Scripture says one thing and it is being flatly denied?

Look below... - first my scripture quote - then the reply !!!!! Good grief !!!

7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second.

Your response...

"It doesn’t say the covenant was at fault...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What can we do ? how can we discuss this when Scripture says one thing and it is being flatly denied?

Look below... - first my scripture quote - then the reply !!!!! Good grief !!!


It doesn’t say the covenant was at fault...

And the next verse tells us plainly where that fault was and why

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second
8 Because finding fault with them, (not the covenant) He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord

I would have just stayed with this because you’re right you are working hard against what is clearly stated

Yes you have to work quite hard to argue against what is clearly stated... sorry for that.

I had some small hope.

I guess this will get sorted out soon enough, if God was at fault for the covenant He wrote or the people.

I know which I belIeve as it clearly states.

 

[Carl Emerson]

And where did he say, as a Pharisee, that he was a redeemed believer that kept God's law?

Maybe you need to carefully read what I said because again you completely misrepresent my position.

 

[Carl Emerson]

And the next verse tells us plainly where that fault was. Sorry you refuse to allow the context to define that, which tells us both who was at fault and why.

I would have just stayed with this because you’re right you are working hard against what is clearly stated


Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second
8 Because finding fault with them, (not the covenant) He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord

And the next verse tells us plainly where that fault was. Sorry you refuse to allow the context to define that, which tells us both who was at fault and why.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second
8 Because finding fault with them, (not the covenant) He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord

I would have just stayed with this because you’re right you are working hard against what is clearly stated



I had some small hope.

I guess this will get sorted out soon enough, if God was at fault for the covenant He wrote or the people.

I know which I belIeve as it clearly states.

I was apologising for giving you the stress associated with dancing around the clear reading of the text...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Bottom line is those who push the Law on believers are bewitched as Paul said they were, and no longer able to submit to the clear reading of the text.

Exactly what Paul encountered.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, recognize that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed with [l]Abraham, the believer.

10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” 11 Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “The person who performs them will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So Jesus bewitched us when He said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 or not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 or if one wants to enter into life, keep the commandments quoting from the Ten Commandments Mat19:17-19 or if we abide in His love we keep His commandments John15:10 and He bewitched us when telling us to only worship Him or not stealing from our neighbor. Guess Paul bewitches us too when he said keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1Cor719 pushing the law of God on us by not dishonoring Him Rom2:21-23 or sinning Rom7:7 or being an enmity to God Rom8:7-8

I see why we have these verses in the Bible

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

This sounds like destruction to me

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[Carl Emerson]

So Jesus bewitched us when He said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 or not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 or if one wants to enter into life, keep the commandments quoting from the Ten Commandments Mat19:17-19 or if we abide in His love we keep His commandments John15:10 and He bewitched us when telling us to only worship Him or not stealing from our neighbor. Guess Paul bewitches us too when he said keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1Cor719 pushing the law of God on us by not dishonoring Him Rom2:21-23 or sinning Rom7:7 or being an enmity to God Rom8:7-8

I see why we have these verses in the Bible

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

This sounds like destruction to me

Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So Paul. was wrong about those he rebuked in Galatians 3 ?

 

[Hentenza]

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Galatians 5:16-18 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to o | New American Standard Bible -

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to o

bible.com

It doesn’t get any clearer. The pushers of the law simply cannot get past these verses. If you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. Of course the reverse is also true: if you are under the law, you are not led by the Spirit.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So Paul. was wrong about those he rebuked in Galatians 3 ?

Just out of context, why we have this warning. We need to be very careful with Paul writings and make sure we are not using them against what Jesus taught or lived. Paul can’t save us, only Jesus can. Paul never taught against Christ, but he can be hard to understand so best to see how our understanding of what we think he is teaching compares to his other teachings or more importantly Jesus who is God.

Is only worshipping God bewitching people? Do you honestly believe this is what Paul is teaching in Gal 3? or we could read Gal 2 that provides the context.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Just out of context

Paul was out of context ?

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK so you don't believe Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit in what he wrote ?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Paul was out of context ?

No, you are. You are taking his teachings out of context. Just as we are told people would do, sadly. Unless you think he is teaching one to sin, dishonor God and be left out of the Kingdom of God and teach against what Jesus taught and lived. it’s nonsensical. But feel free to continue on.

 

[Hentenza]

We need to be very careful with Paul writings

is that what your teachers tell you? Is it because Paul completely obliterates what you believe? I have news for you. All of Paul’s writings are scripture and, therefore, inspired by God. You cant neither ignore scripture nor twist scripture simply because you don’t like it.