Christmas and Easter Myths and Answers

[SammyP]

Much more problematic is the fact that we attend church on "Sun" day.

 

[SammyP]

Christmas and the myth of pagan origins

Thank you for posting this.

 

[prodromos]

Much more problematic is the fact that we attend church on "Sun" day.

In Greek it is called "Kyriaki", which means "(day) of the Lord"

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Much more problematic is the fact that we attend church on "Sun" day.

It isn't called Sunday everywhere, just in English. Today is called Kyriaki in Greek, "The Lord's Day".

 

[SammyP]

In Greek it is called "Kyriaki", which means "(day) of the Lord"

I was trying to be funny and doing it poorly.

 

[prodromos]

I was trying to be funny and doing it poorly.

My bad
Unfortunately there have been plenty of people on these forums who are serious about the pagan origins of English weekday names and can't seem to grasp that they all belong to God regardless.

 

[SammyP]

No worries I was just so overjoyed at reading this thread, I'm so tired of hearing about all this crap every year. I'm older now and it doesn't bother me, but for a long time I really let it rob me of some joy.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Much more problematic is the fact that we attend church on "Sun" day.

Why?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Celebrating christmas is just a reflection of how the church is guided by men and ideas, that they want to bring into christianity. Celebrating christmas is just one of these type ideas that has been brought into the christian believe system without any support from God given in the Bible.

So whether it is pagan or not, still does not change the fact that, this celebration is not authorized and commanded to be celebrated in The Bible.

Why do you believe that it's not commanded to be celebrated in the Bible, and if it's not in the Bible, why does that matter.
Jesus didn't leave us a book. He did leave us a Church, and the command to the apostles to "Go out into the entire world and teach". Not write. He also told the apostles, specifically "Who hears you, hears me." And "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." And he told the apostles that he would send the Paraclete to guide them in all truth.
In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul tells us "The tradition which I received from the Lord I hand on to you." Paul also appointed Timothy and Titus as bishops, and the apostles appointed Matthias to the place of Judas. They were told to pass down the faith. Even what constitutes the Bible is a matter of Catholic Tradition.

 

[d taylor]

Why do you believe that it's not commanded to be celebrated in the Bible, and if it's not in the Bible, why does that matter.
Jesus didn't leave us a book. He did leave us a Church, and the command to the apostles to "Go out into the entire world and teach". Not write. He also told the apostles, specifically "Who hears you, hears me." And "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." And he told the apostles that he would send the Paraclete to guide them in all truth.
In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul tells us "The tradition which I received from the Lord I hand on to you." Paul also appointed Timothy and Titus as bishops, and the apostles appointed Matthias to the place of Judas. They were told to pass down the faith. Even what constitutes the Bible is a matter of Catholic Tradition.

Well we have very different views about this, i really see no place to meet in the middle.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well we have very different views about this, i really see no place to meet in the middle.

Well, the basic question "Did Jesus leave us a rule of faith?" should start it? I believe he did, and based on those Bible quotes, it was the apostles and their authority to preach in His name. There was no Bible, as such, for almost 400 years. The Catholic Church compiled it.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Chronograph of 354 (or "Chronography"), also known as the Calendar of 354, is a compilation of chronological and calendrical texts produced in 354 AD for a wealthy Roman Christian named Valentinus by the calligrapher and illustrator Furius Dionysius Filocalus. The original illustrated manuscript is lost, but several copies have survived. It is the earliest dated codex to have full page illustrations. The term Calendar of Filocalus is sometimes used to describe the whole collection, and sometimes just the sixth part, which is the Calendar itself. Other versions of the names ("Philocalus", "Codex-Calendar of 354", "Chronography of 354") are occasionally used. The text and illustrations are available online.[1]

Part 6: the Philocalian calendar – seven miniatures of personifications of the Months in this MS; the full set appears in other copies
On December 25: "N·INVICTI·CM·XXX" – "Birthday of the unconquered, games ordered, thirty races" – is the oldest literary reference to the pagan feast of Sol Invictus

Chronograph of 354 - Wikipedia

This is kind of a red herring, because we know the Church in Rome intentionally moved some feasts in order to prevent its members from participating in the Pagan rites they were accustomed to. Christmas, the Feast of the Nativity, for example, was originally celebrated together with the Epiphany (The Baptism of Christ) on January 6th, and the Armenian Apostolic Church (Oriental Orthodox) still celebrates the Nativity and Baptism of our Lord together on January 6th (or January 18th in the Holy Land, where the EO and OO churches use the Julian Calendar exclusively, which is good, because the Holy Sepulchre and Via Dolorosa gets incredibly overcrowded in those years when Pascha falls on the same date on the Julian and Gregorian Calendars due to the mass of Roman Catholic and Orthodox pilgrims.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The question is, if this celebration is not accurate. Will that be something that God will accept or approve of.

In other words, does God allow man to decide/choose how they should celebrate The Messiah coming into the world. Did God allow The Nation of Israel to choose how they would celebrate the Passover that occurred in Egypt.

Scripture teaches the general principle anything done unto the Lord glorifies him.

Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.”
1 Corinthians 10:31

Colossians 3:17
New International Version
And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Scripture teaches the general principle
anything done unto the Lord glorifies him.

Please tell how [doing any] below Glorifies Christ?

Whether therefore ye eat [being glutton]
glutton | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

or drink [a drunkard]
drunkard | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

" I got drunk good, Lord here's to your glory?

or whatsoever ye do [like abominations]
abomination | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

"I am a thief, to your glory?
a thief | YouVersion Search | The Bible App

Those verses does not say you can do anything, and God
would be proud of you, just give him credit or glory.
-

For I have given you an example,
that ye should do as I have done to you.
John 13:15 (KJV), Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2

 

[Semper-Fi]

Every year this myth gets refuted, but it never dies.

Refuting something does not make it the truth.

 

[Semper-Fi]

If I find something useful on Easter I will post it.

Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia

Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, waged a controversy
over the Passover-Easter question with the bishop of Rome.
This theological battle was called the Quartodeciman Controversy.

Polycrates contended, as Jesus and the original apostles taught,
that the Passover should be observed in the new Christian form
introduced by Jesus and by the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11),
using unleavened bread and wine instead of sacrificing a lamb,
on the eve of the 14th Nisan (first month in the sacred calendar,
occurring in the spring).

But [the Rome church] insisted that it be observed on a Sunday.
Passover ordained forever, using the Hebrew calendar, an oracle of Gods,
was replaced with Easter, and A Pope altered Roman calendar, that's used
most of the world, with all the pagan holidays instead of Gods Holy days.

Time was changed Daniel 7:25

 

[The Liturgist]

Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia

Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, waged a controversy
over the Passover-Easter question with the bishop of Rome.
This theological battle was called the Quartodeciman Controversy.

Polycrates contended, as Jesus and the original apostles taught,
that the Passover should be observed in the new Christian form
introduced by Jesus and by the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11),
using unleavened bread and wine instead of sacrificing a lamb,
on the eve of the 14th Nisan (first month in the sacred calendar,
occurring in the spring).

But [the Rome church] insisted that it be observed on a Sunday.
Passover ordained forever, using the Hebrew calendar, an oracle of Gods,
was replaced with Easter, and A Pope altered Roman calendar, that's used
most of the world, with all the pagan holidays instead of Gods Holy days.

Time was changed Daniel 7:25

That’s completely false. Firstly, Rome did not call its archbishops Popes in the Second Century. Secondly, after Archbishop Victor threatened to anathematize Polycarp’s church, St. Irenaeus of Lyons intervened and told him not to. Thirdly, the Roman church historically used unleavened bread while the Eastern churches used leavened bread.

Finally, Quartodecimianism was discontinued over 150 years later, at the Council of Nicea, and Archbishop Sylvester of Rome, who some people call Pope Sylvester, but the only bishop styled Pope at Nicea was Pope St. Alexander of Alexandria, as the title Pope originated in the Church of Alexandria in the early third century and was not used in Rome until the sixth century, was not present at Nicea! That’s right, the Church of Rome had nothing to do with the decision to replace the Quartodecimian system in use in parts of Asia Minor. Nor did Emperor Constantine, who presided over the council in a neutral manner.

And the selfsame council did adopt the Nicene Creed and anathematize Arianism, the wicked heresy that denied that Jesus Christ was God incarnate, and instead insisted he was a creature, and it also enacted a canon prohibiting people who had castrated themselves from serving as pastors, among other wise and sensible decisions, so I am very comfortable with it.

 

[Semper-Fi]

That’s completely false. Firstly, Rome did not call
its archbishops Popes in the Second Century.

I did not say it was the Second Century.
but " A Pope altered Roman calendar"

Gregorian calendar - Wikipedia

"was introduced in October 1582 by Pope Gregory XIII
as a minor modification of the Julian calendar."

the Gregorian calendar—named after Pope Gregory xiii.

This calendar revolves around fixing the date of Easter
in line with the spring equinox, ensuring that the Catholic’s
festivals fall at the right time relative to Earth’s revolution
around the sun.

This calendar was based on the Julian calendar, the Roman calendar
established in 45 b.c. by Julius Caesar. He chose the names and
lengths of the months that we still use today (except July and
August, which were renamed after Julius and Augustus).

The Lords Passover was replaced by easter,
with no bible authority to do so.

The Julian calendar was altered by the Vatican.
God actually prophesied that the Catholic Church
would change time itself!

God begins the days at sunset, but now begins the day
in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the year in the early spring,
now changed to the middle of dead winter.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this
“little horn” has induced the world to begin the months
according to a man-made calendar of heathen origin.

God ends the 7th day week with the Sabbath, a holyday.
Now the first day of week is called the lords day instead.
-
Also the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Com.

“And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,

and think to change times and laws:

and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.”

 

[The Liturgist]

I did not say it was the Second Century.
but " A Pope altered Roman calendar"

Gregorian calendar - Wikipedia

"was introduced in October 1582 by Pope Gregory XIII
as a minor modification of the Julian calendar."

the Gregorian calendar—named after Pope Gregory xiii.

This calendar revolves around fixing the date of Easter
in line with the spring equinox, ensuring that the Catholic’s
festivals fall at the right time relative to Earth’s revolution
around the sun.

This calendar was based on the Julian calendar, the Roman calendar
established in 45 b.c. by Julius Caesar. He chose the names and
lengths of the months that we still use today (except July and
August, which were renamed after Julius and Augustus).

The Julian calendar was altered by the Vatican.
God actually prophesied that the Catholic Church
would change time itself!

The Lords Passover was replaced by easter,
with no bible authority to do so.

God begins the days at sunset, but now begins the day
in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the year in the early spring,
now changed to the middle of dead winter.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this
“little horn” has induced the world to begin the months
according to a man-made calendar of heathen origin.

God ends the 7th day week with the Sabbath, a holyday.
Now the first day of week is called the lords day instead.
-
Also the Roman Catholic Church have their own version of the Ten Com.

“And he shall speak great words against the most High,
and shall wear out the saints of the most High,

and think to change times and laws:

and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of time.”

Ah, well, most of my favorite denominations (the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches, and specifically within those groups, the Patriarchates of Jerusalem, and the Churches of Alexandria (Coptic), Russia, Sinai, Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Ethiopia and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, and Mount Athos, and the Greek Old Calendarists and Russian Old Rite Orthodox, use the Julian Calendar exclusively.

I would love to see Protestant churches adopt the Julian Calendar, because as the Earth’s rotation gradually slows, the calendar drift that prompted the Gregorian calendar will reverse. And the Gregorian Calendar is just not that much more accurate to be worth the trouble it causes in those Orthodox churches which use it (because all of them, except for the ultra liberal Finnish and Estonian churches, use the Julian Calendar for Pascha, and when you have everything else on the Gregorian calendar, it breaks the annual cycle of services, by, for example, in some years causing so many Sundays to happen between Theophany and Pascha that the Apostles Fast after Pentecost ends before it begins.

However, every traditional church, including the Orthodox churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and even the monasteries of the Roman Catholic Church, reckon the day to begin at Sunset. In fact, clocks on Mount Athos are set to reflect this, and the hours according to the timekeeping practices we see in use in the Gospels and Acts.

 

[d taylor]

Christ gave His Church, through His disciples, real authority which Israel did not have. Christ sent His Holy Spirit upon His disciples to lead them into all truth. Christ's Church has authority to bind and loose, to establish days to celebrate. Did they not have the authority to put an end to the requirement for circumcision at the Jerusalem council?

As sorry as the visible church is today, a majority do not even believe a large part of the Bible. They accept science over the Bible in areas of creation and many have concocted their own salvation plan, accepting gay preachers/priest among other problems.
And you expect this church to decide on celebrations, that would be about right and really fits well with the contemporary church.

I am sure it was the 12 Apostles/Disciples who were given charge. They were the ones who were able to heal, etc...

Disciples outside of he 12 did not have that ability