Christmas and Easter Myths and Answers

[Daniel Marsh]

Well the thing is I have had the pleasure of high altitude flight in my younger days on a certain famous aircraft noted for its unusually high service ceiling, and have seen the curvature of the Earth, and I did also once go on an adventure cruise to Antarctica, and I have a collection of old airline timetables from a few decades back when services from South Africa to Argentina and Argentina and Chile were still available, and from South Africa and East Africa to Perth. So its not so much science as a case of the obvious.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Faith and science are not opposed. Without one, the other makes no sense.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Celebrating the birth and death of our Lord are not traditions of men. The dates, possibly. But even those are not totally traditional.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I don't believe you are doing anything unto the Lord if you're getting drunk or stuffing food in your face, personally.
I agree with you, you can't do anything you want and say it's in the name of God, and expect God to be happy. But what I'm saying is that honoring our Lord's entrance into humanity and his sacrifice are good things, when done properly.
I have been to public gatherings, such as luaus, where the emcee will announce that there's a wedding party, and when you glance over, the bride, groom, and the party are all drunk. Celebrating a wedding should be a happy occasion, not one for drunken revelry. There are proper and improper ways to honor.

No Christian with common sense would drink and eat to access and say I am doing it unto the Lord. Please get some common sense. You friend are being really silly.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

birthdays

The Encyclopedia Judaica could not be more blunt:
...Sol Invictus - Wikipedia

"
Biblical References.

A close study of the Biblical text shows that the Bible is not altogether wanting in references to the subject; for, while it lacks positive accounts, it contains passages from which it may be inferred that the custom of remembering birthday anniversaries was not wholly unknown among the Jews. "The day of our king" (Hosea vii. 5), on which the princes made the king sick with bottles of wine, and the king himself "stretched out his hand with scorners," alludes more probably to a birthday festival than to a solemn occasion, such as the anniversary of his installation, which would have been observed with more decorum (see Josephus, "Ant." xv. 9, § 6).

Birthdays might not have been celebrated by the common people with great solemnity, yet they did not pass wholly unnoticed, and were remembered by congratulations, as in modern times. Jeremiah not only cursed the day of his birth, but wished that it should not be blessed (Jer. xx. 14), as though such had been the custom.

It is said of Job, "and he cursed his day" (Job iii. 1). The emphatic and determining expression "his day" implies the idea that he, like everybody else, had a certain day of the year singled out for a certain purpose, which we learn further was the anniversary of his birth.

Weaning on Second Birthday.
The second or third birthday of a child whose coming into the world was very much desired by his parents was usually made the occasion of a feast, because the child was then weaned, and had consequently passed the dangerous and uncertain stage of infancy. Abraham made a great feast on the day Isaac was weaned (Gen. xxi. 8). This occurred, according to Rashi, at the expiration of twenty-four months. Bishop Ely ("Holy Bible Com." l.c. on the passage) says: "By comparing I Sam. it would seem that this was very probably a religious feast." Hannah postponed the yearly family feast at Shiloh until she had weaned Samuel, in order to celebrate his birthday at the same time (I Sam. i. 23, 24). According to Rashi and Midr. R. Samuel, l.c., this also occurred at the end of twenty-four months. Yet from II Chron. xxxi. 16 it may be inferred that Samuel was weaned at the end of his third year; for only from that age were children admitted to the service of the Temple.

In Post-Biblical Times.
Two instances of birthday celebrations are mentioned in post-Biblical literature, from which it may be assumed that this was customary in the Herodian family. They used to celebrate birthdays with great pomp, and in the same manner as the Egyptian kings had done more than 2,000 years earlier (Gen. xl. 20), by extensive public entertainments, which were made the occasions of granting favors to friends and pardons to those in disgrace. Agrippa I. solemnized his birthday anniversary by entertaining his subjects with a festival, and decreed the recall of his banished general Silas, which recall, by the way, the latter stubbornly declined (Josephus, "Ant." xix. 7, § 1). Herod the Tetrarch celebrated his birthday with a great feast, at which the daughter of Herodias danced before the guests, the king promising "to give her whatsoever she would ask" (Matt. xiv. 6).

" BIRTHDAY - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Daniel Marsh]

https://www.jewishboston.com/read/what-is-the-jewish-way-of-celebrating-a-birthday/

"And Abraham made a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned" (Genesis 21:8).
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/655138/jewish/Birthdays-in-Jewish-History.htm

 

[Daniel Marsh]

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/655568/jewish/Why-Your-Birthday-Matters.htm

Was Herod Jewish?
Matthew 14:6
On Herod’s birthday,

Matthew 2:16
Herod Kills the Baby Boys
When Herod saw that the ·wise men [astologers; magi] had ·tricked [outwitted; outsmarted] him, he was furious. So he ·gave an order [or sent soldiers] to kill all the baby boys in Bethlehem and in the surrounding area who were two years old or younger.

Hebrew birthday - Wikipedia

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Job 1:4
Job’s sons took turns holding feasts [L on their day; C perhaps birthday celebrations] in their homes and invited their sisters to eat and drink with them.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: feast

 

[Daniel Marsh]

So what? Who says we must follow Jewish customs?
Again, so what? None of these are biblical. I wonder if you realize that everyone in the Bible, except for Christ and his Mother, were sinners?
The fact is we honor the beginning of the human life of Christ, and it's end. There is a phrase at the end of the Gospel of John which tells us that not everything about Christ was ever written down. In fact, we know nothing of his first 12 years. How do you know he didn't celebrate his birthday? They certainly counted the years, otherwise wouldn't know he was 12 when he got lost in the temple in Jerusalem.
So bah, humbug on you. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the events in Christ's life.
That said, the way people celebrate Christ's birthday and death today are something else. The consumerism and partying at Christmas, and the egg hunts and bunnies at Easter are not my idea of celebration.
Personally, I honor the Lord's birth by attending midnight Mass on His birthday. And there is some evidence that Dec 25 could have been the day of His birth. But even if not, it commemorates the day He was recognized as Lord (by the Wise men from the East). They came to worship the King of the Jews, publicly. I also attend midnight Mass on the day of His resurrection.
That's not to say we don't have family time and share gifts and food, but first we worship the King.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Where does it say Mary was not a sinner?

Let the red haring go friend.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I celebrate the Incarnation of the God-man Jesus Christ and His resurrection. Not His birthday.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

 

[The Liturgist]

No Christian with common sense would drink and eat to access and say I am doing it unto the Lord. Please get some common sense. You friend are being really silly.

View attachment 305399

Common sense isn’t as common as it used to be. There was actually a church which presumed to celebrate Holy Communion with pizza and coca-cola. I wish this were false, but it happened. And it was an act of blasphemy.

I think that kind of liturgical abuse is what @Root of Jesse was referring to; there have been a number of high profile incidents of it in some Roman Catholic Church parishes and some liberal protestant parishes (mainline denominations in the US in which some of which this abuse has happened or happens continually in some parishes include the Episcopal Church, the UCC, the ELCA, the UMC, the PCUSA, the Moravians, the Dutch Reformed church, the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ, and a few others). Also some Evangelical or Reformed churches, ostensibly conservative, but with contemporary worship, adhering to a Zwinglian or Memorialist interpretation of the Eucharist rather than believing in a real spiritual presence (the Calvinist and vaguely the historic Anglican doctrine), or a physical presence (believed in by some Anglicans and Episcopalians, Moravians, Lutherans, and obviously, Roman Catholics, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East).

 

[Root of Jesse]

Let the red haring go friend.

Its not a red herring, Daniel. Who gives us grace? God. And if the angel told Mary she was full of grace, it means there's no room for sin. There is no sin in heaven, also, and Revelation tells us Mary is in heaven bodily.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Common sense isn’t as common as it used to be. There was actually a church which presumed to celebrate Holy Communion with pizza and coca-cola. I wish this were false, but it happened. And it was an act of blasphemy.

I think that kind of liturgical abuse is what @Root of Jesse was referring to; there have been a number of high profile incidents of it in some Roman Catholic Church parishes and some liberal protestant parishes (mainline denominations in the US in which some of which this abuse has happened or happens continually in some parishes include the Episcopal Church, the UCC, the ELCA, the UMC, the PCUSA, the Moravians, the Dutch Reformed church, the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ, and a few others). Also some Evangelical or Reformed churches, ostensibly conservative, but with contemporary worship, adhering to a Zwinglian or Memorialist interpretation of the Eucharist rather than believing in a real spiritual presence (the Calvinist and vaguely the historic Anglican doctrine), or a physical presence (believed in by some Anglicans and Episcopalians, Moravians, Lutherans, and obviously, Roman Catholics, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church of the East).

I heard of a parish that had a wonderful recipe for communion hosts, which included eggs, brown sugar and baking soda.

 

[The Liturgist]

I heard of a parish that had a wonderful recipe for communion hosts, which included eggs, brown sugar and baking soda.

It would be funny if it were not so sad.

 

[Mockingbird0]

A commonly-held superstition is that the Eastern Orthodox Pascha is required by rule always to occur after the first day of Unleavened Bread (15 Nisan) in the rabbinic Jewish calendar. This is false. Both Gregorian and Julian calendars set Easter to the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring equinox in the Northern hemisphere. But the Julian calendar's equinox is 13 days late compared to the Gregorian's and the Julian calendar's full moon is 4 days, sometimes 5 days late compared to the Gregorian calendar's. These two errors, the 13-day error in the equinox and the 4-to-5-day error in the full moon account for the entire difference between Eastern and Western Easter. The rabbinic Jewish feast of Unleavened Bread has nothing to do with it.

 

[The Liturgist]

I heard of a parish that had a wonderful recipe for communion hosts, which included eggs, brown sugar and baking soda.

By the way, Coptic antidoron is the best tasting IMO. It is baked fresh, and includes the portion of the loaf selected for the Eucharist which does not become what the Orthodox call the Lamb, basically, the Host, and the other loaves, plus additional rolls which are baked afterwards. The dough is very simple, yet delicious, and moist, unlike typical Byzantine antidoron.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

By the way, Coptic antidoron is the best tasting IMO. It is baked fresh, and includes the portion of the loaf selected for the Eucharist which does not become what the Orthodox call the Lamb, basically, the Host, and the other loaves, plus additional rolls which are baked afterwards. The dough is very simple, yet delicious, and moist, unlike typical Byzantine antidoron.

Well... my prosphora comes out like a discus. If you drop it on your foot, you might end up with some broken toes.

 

[jamiec]

In Greek it is called "Kyriaki", which means "(day) of the Lord"

And Latin calls it “dies Dominica”, as in the Greek - for the names both mean “the Lordly day”: the “day of the Lord”, as in the NT.

The English name is unusual - because in most European languages, the name means the same as in Latin or Greek. The Catholic Church’s “official” language is Latin - not English. English Protestants don’t seem to object to the name Sunday for the day; so why is it a problem now ? Whether the day is called Sunday, Dominica, Kyriaki, Dimanche, Domenica, Domingo, or something else, it remains “the Lord’s day” - no-one else’s.