Christians, what do you think about the adoption of modern secular "values" by most churches?

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

O




"The best selling book" that nobody follows.


Prevail means to overtake, conquer, you're right. You've said yourself that most Christians have false beliefs, meaning that "real" Christianity is inaccessible to the vast majority of humans. That means that the gates of hell have in fact prevailed.

There are a lot of people who identify as Christians in this world, but they live by worldly morals. Even you, in your defence of Christianity's integrity are breaking the commandments of the Bible right now. Look at your username! If Jesus is God that would be blasphemy, to me as a Muslim its insulting a prophet of God. A grave sin.

No body is an overstatement...what you should understand is that most can mean like 70% of a population... sure 30% is a smaller amount but it's still a good portion of the world. Now what percentage are true followers idk... I haven't been all over the world but just pointing that out there. A majority can be like 51%


And no teh point i'm trying to make to you is that if even back in the OT there were few true followers of christ then that isn't a sign of hell prevailing. If this was something that suddently started to happen in the last 200 years then sure I would agree, but christianity has always been followed by a lesser group of people, but as we see in the bible hell doesn't prevail because the christ followers always win. IN jericho they won, in acts they won, JESUs and the 12 won, the few led by God always win. And in revelations we see that the few in chapter 20 onward will prevail and overtake the many. Also what commandments in my defense am I breaking according to you.

Look at your username! If Jesus is God that would be blasphemy, to me as a Muslim its insulting a prophet of God. A grave sin.

My Response: I'm not muslim so obviously it doesn't offend me to call JESUS something higher then a prophet or philosopher, it's a insult to you but a good feeling for me to declare that JESUS is the way the truth and the life.

 

[dzheremi]

All comparisons between Islam and Christianity that declare Islam in any way superior are false, the result of a poisonous combination of weakmindedness and zeal.

The fact is, Islam is a false religion, birthed in hell directly from the loins of Satan himself. The only way it can even be thought of as 'completing' Christianity is by the way that it provides ample evidence of St. Paul's warning that heresies would come after Christ, but this was not for 'purification' of what is already pure (the Christian faith), but so that those who are approved may be known.

We do not judge what those outside of the Church are doing, so I cannot comment on 'most churches' or whatever nonsense. In my own tradition, we observe sex-segregated worship and the women in the church are dressed very piously, so your criticisms, which are really just cheap, outward morality signaling that have nothing to do with theology (where Islam completely fails), do not apply. But even if they did, what should any Christian say? To live in secularism is a lot more difficult than the alternative because then you have to observe your own religion yourself, rather than having the state (help you) observe it. I have known more than enough Muslims from the most conservative Islamic societies like Saudi and Yemen to know how poorly they often fail at maintaining the air of pious arrogance so central to their conception and presentation of their religion vis-a-vis that of others, so it is foolish to rely on such things. As a Saudi acquaintance once put it to me when I asked him why he was always going out on the weekend to drink in bars and hit on women when his religion doesn't allow such things, he said "America is a free country". I guess Allah is busy enough dealing with KSA, Yemen, Iran, Egypt, etc.

Secular values may be hollow, empty, defective, etc., but none of that is to Islam's credit. Any question Islam or its law is an answer to is a stupid question, as Islam is a religion for people who cannot control themselves, and hence need this extremely simplified, externalized 'religion' to direct their more base impulses (which it often does very poorly, anyway).

Does that answer your question? I am against secularism, and against your religion. If I have any choice in regard to living with one or the other, I'd rather live with secularism. We do not get our churches, monasteries, and homes burnt down or attacked by people shouting "Secularism is the greatest".

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

The basis for morality in Christianity is to treat all other people
just the same way as you would like them to treat you.

So any special treatment of women, men, old, young, sexual orientation,
skin color, or even religious orientation is not allowed or was practiced
by Jesus.

So you're saying that the idea of the Golden Rule supersedes all of the very clear and specific pronouncements in scripture by God of how to live your life? I can't believe that you or anyone actually believes that, since the Bible itself does not ever say that. I think what you're saying is something that people tell themselves so that they don't have to stop living the easy life, abandon desires and temptations and work on oneself.

 

[W2L]

Yes, Islam denies the pagan-like deification of Jesus after his death and clarifies what he truly was. It is a purification of Christianity, which was already corrupted by AD40. To safeguard against that happening again, God gave the Quran to us verbatim so that everything is clear.

Jesus is the messiah, but read the Jewish foretelling of the messiah from the Hebrew bible. They never said that the messiah was God himself! In Roman culture, great men were often deified and turned into pagan Gods after their death. That's what happened to Christianity. If Jesus was here, today, he would be insulted and saddened that you would call him God. He was a true servant of God and his second best prophet, he knew that God is incomparable to any man. There is no God but God.

I never said Jesus was God, i said hes Gods son. He now sits at Gods right hand in heaven. Have a good night, im bowing out.

 

[Winken]

O




"The best selling book" that nobody follows.


Prevail means to overtake, conquer, you're right. You've said yourself that most Christians have false beliefs, meaning that "real" Christianity is inaccessible to the vast majority of humans. That means that the gates of hell have in fact prevailed.

There are a lot of people who identify as Christians in this world, but they live by worldly morals. Even you, in your defence of Christianity's integrity are breaking the commandments of the Bible right now. Look at your username! If Jesus is God that would be blasphemy, to me as a Muslim its insulting a prophet of God. A grave sin.

Please describe "nobody." Please describe "real Christianity." Not one single authentic Christian has "false beliefs." Not one. Blasphemy is to reject Jesus as Savior and Lord.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

All comparisons between Islam and Christianity that declare Islam in any way superior are false, the result of a poisonous combination of weakmindedness and zeal.

The fact is, Islam is a false religion, birthed in hell directly from the loins of Satan himself. The only way it can even be thought of as 'completing' Christianity is by the way that it provides ample evidence of St. Paul's warning that heresies would come after Christ, but this was not for 'purification' of what is already pure (the Christian faith), but so that those who are approved

We do not judge what those outside of the Church are doing, so I cannot comment on 'most churches' or whatever nonsense. In my own tradition, we observe sex-segregated worship and the women in the church are dressed very piously, so your criticisms, which are really just cheap, outward morality signaling that have nothing to do with theology (where Islam completely fails), do not apply. But even if they did, what should any Christian say? To live in secularism is a lot more difficult than the alternative because then you have to observe your own religion yourself, rather than having the state (help you) observe it. I have known more than enough Muslims from the most conservative Islamic societies like Saudi and Yemen to know how poorly they often fail at maintaining the air of pious arrogance so central to their conception and presentation of their religion vis-a-vis that of others, so it is foolish to rely on such things. As a Saudi acquaintance once put it to me when I asked him why he was always going out on the weekend to drink in bars and hit on women when his religion doesn't allow such things, he said "America is a free country". I guess Allah is busy enough dealing with KSA, Yemen, Iran, Egypt, etc.

Secular values may be hollow, empty, defective, etc., but none of that is to Islam's credit. Any question Islam or its law is an answer to is a stupid question, as Islam is a religion for people who cannot control themselves, and hence need this extremely simplified, externalized 'religion' to direct their more base impulses (which it often does very poorly, anyway).

Does that answer your question? I am against secularism, and against your religion. If I have any choice in regard to living with one or the other, I'd rather live with secularism. We do not get our churches, monasteries, and homes burnt down or attacked by people shouting "Secularism is the greatest".

When people say that "Islam is satanic" I know right then and there that they got their info from some neoconservative, Israel supporting Fox News/Breitbart/Jihadwatch hoopla. Read the Quran, it's free.

As for theology, have you ever checked out Islamic theology? Avicenna? Averroes? Even Al Ghazali (not my favourite) they put Aquinas, Palamas, Luther, Calvin to shame. Just because Islam isn't hopelessly obscurantist and doctrine can be explicitly pronounced doesn't mean it's deficient. It means it's not mumbo jumbo.

Plenty of Muslims have awful failings, humans are flawed and often grotesque, but when you compare the two faiths; Islam wins on moral fortitude every time.

It's funny that most critics of Islam either spout objective rubbish about satanism, or they sound like leftists going on about women's and homosexual rights and human freedom. Lol

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

Please describe "nobody." Please describe "real Christianity." Not one single authentic Christian has "false beliefs." Not one. Blasphemy is to reject Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Tell me if one community of believers that aren't a tiny cult which actually follow the morality of the Bible?

To say that God is a man is blasphemy, but these discussions are fruitless. Why won't you address the query, how do you feel about the fact that Christians have abandoned the morality of their holy book for secular, post enlightenment values?

 

[anna ~ grace]

Plenty of Muslims have awful failings, humans are flawed and often grotesque, but when you compare the two faiths; Islam wins on moral fortitude every time.

Not so much, friend. More Muslims than Christians obey their central text, true, but I would not say that the personal and social moral standards of the Quran or of the Quran and Hadith are superior to those of the New Testament.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

I never said Jesus was God, i said hes Gods son. He now sits at Gods right hand in heaven. Have a good night, im bowing out.

We are all God's children, God's son means "second person of the Trinity". Yes he is in heaven, alive in body, and he will come back to face the antichrist. He is not Divine in any way, he is God's human prophet, born to a virgin.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

Not so much, friend. More Muslims than Christians obey their central text, true, but I would not say that the personal and social moral standards of the Quran or of the Quran and Hadith are superior to those of the New Testament.

Is this the part where you complain that Islamic morality is too different from secular liberal egalitarianism?

 

[W2L]

We are all God's children, God's son means "second person of the Trinity". Yes he is in heaven, alive in body, and he will come back to face the antichrist. He is not Divine in any way, he is God's human prophet, born to a virgin.

You sure have things twisted up good.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

The basis for morality in Christianity is to treat all other people
just the same way as you would like them to treat you.

For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

So any special treatment of women, men, old, young, sexual orientation,
skin color, or even religious orientation is not allowed or was practiced
by Jesus.

So any church groups moving toward equal treatment of all are correct
and moving away from error, and slavery.

Read your own book, the Bible has moral prescriptions much larger than "be hopelessly accommodating of sin" and "connect with the values of the European enlightenment" but I don't need to argue, you've made my point for me. Christians see Christianity as nothing more than being uncontroversially submissive to liberalism (the philosophical current) whilst Muslims actually adhere to our moral code no matter how unpopular it is with the secular world. Those who live in filth and decadence will never be pleased with morality.

 

[Hidden In Him]

To all the Christians trying to debate with our Muslim friend, please understand something: You are being deceived if you think he will listen to you. The Devil has entirely closed his ears to hearing the truth... If you would serve God, simply pray for the man that God opens his eyes supernaturally to see.

Otherwise, all you are doing is being played for fools.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

You sure have things twisted up good.

I do? Because pretty much every Christian church would say that Jesus is God. He is not God, nor is he Divine in any way. Worshipping a man, but then not even doing what he told you to do (keep the morals of the Bible) is very mixed up.

This thread has told me what I need to know. Christians think that because they worship a man they don't need morals beyond "be nice"

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

To all the Christians trying to debate with our Muslim friend, please understand something: You are being deceived if you think he will listen to you. The Devil has entirely closed his ears to hearing the truth... If you would serve God, simply pray for the man that God opens his eyes supernaturally to see.

Otherwise, all you are doing is being played for fools.

I didn't come here to discuss theology, I asked about morality. That threatens you, because you know that when compared side to side, Christians don't hold to their own stated morals. To deflect from that, you parrot some rubbish about Satan you read on the Jerusalem Post website, it makes you feel better that the majority of British and American Christians think that two men should be able to get married, women should be able to boss around men and go out and cuckhold their husband (if they have one) by exposing their body to the whole high street, and you just have to be nice to get to heaven. Lol

 

[W2L]

I do? Because pretty much every Christian church would say that Jesus is God. He is not God, nor is he Divine in any way. Worshipping a man, but then not even doing what he told you to do (keep the morals of the Bible) is very mixed up.

This thread has told me what I need to know. Christians think that because they worship a man they don't need morals beyond "be nice"

I follow the Lords teaching, so you are wrong about Christians. I believe in the law of love, as i said earlier. I believe in morality as well. the Lord teaches us all those things.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

I follow the Lords teaching, so you are wrong about Christians. I believe in the law of love, as i said earlier. I believe in morality as well. the Lord teaches us all those things.

Even by the standards of your own bible, there are more laws than just love. God's love doesn't excuse immorality. If you think that the Bible says "men can marry men, women and men are equal and the same and none of the morals in the Bible matter" then I must ask what translation you're reading? I have a KJV on my shelf, I can't find anything like that in there. Lol

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

No body is an overstatement...what you should understand is that most can mean like 70% of a population... sure 30% is a smaller amount but it's still a good portion of the world. Now what percentage are true followers idk... I haven't been all over the world but just pointing that out there. A majority can be like 51%


And no teh point i'm trying to make to you is that if even back in the OT there were few true followers of christ then that isn't a sign of hell prevailing. If this was something that suddently started to happen in the last 200 years then sure I would agree, but christianity has always been followed by a lesser group of people, but as we see in the bible hell doesn't prevail because the christ followers always win. IN jericho they won, in acts they won, JESUs and the 12 won, the few led by God always win. And in revelations we see that the few in chapter 20 onward will prevail and overtake the many. Also what commandments in my defense am I breaking according to you.

Look at your username! If Jesus is God that would be blasphemy, to me as a Muslim its insulting a prophet of God. A grave sin.

My Response: I'm not muslim so obviously it doesn't offend me to call JESUS something higher then a prophet or philosopher, it's a insult to you but a good feeling for me to declare that JESUS is the way the truth and the life.

Your username is calling Jesus (pbuh) a goat. A goat is an animal that humans slaughter and eat. Why do you refer to him as an animal?

 

[W2L]

Even by the standards of your own bible, there are more laws than just love. God's love doesn't excuse immorality. If you think that the Bible says "men can marry men, women and men are equal and the same and none of the morals in the Bible matter" then I must ask what translation you're reading? I have a KJV on my shelf, I can't find anything like that in there. Lol

You are building a strawman. I never implied, in any way, that i believed homosexuality is morally acceptable.

 

[Walk the Straight Path]

You are building a strawman. I never implied, in any way, that i believed homosexuality is morally acceptable.

You made that implication, because you've said that the only thing that matters is love. No rules. Even in the corrupted gospels, Jesus says that he didn't come to change the law of the Old Testament, just fulfill it. The Quran is the true fulfillment of it, because the Binle was corrupted.


Do you think that the Bible says that women are allowed to have authority over men? Where does it say that? It doesn't, yet you'll never find a Christian who would betray his true gospel (secular liberal humanism) to make sure that his wife or any other woman doesn't wield authority over him. Maryam, mother of Jesus covered her body but
Christians think it's okay for a woman to show her figure to the world. I can go on and on.