Christianity ENCOURAGES Obesity

[mama2one]

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[Sophrosyne]

I guess I'm not a Christian because I'm not obese.

 

[The Narrow Way]

I couldn't agree with you more. Of all the Christian denominations, Southern Baptists are the MOST OBESE.

 

[The Narrow Way]

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Asking this question, i guess you have never been to a southern baptist church in the south. If so you would not be wondering why christians are unhealthy.

Obesity in the Body of Christ | Baptist Press Sad....but true....

 

[SkyWriting]

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Asking this question, i guess you have never been to a southern baptist church in the south. If so you would not be wondering why christians are unhealthy.

I guess you've not been to any church in the North. If so you would not be implying that Southerners are especially unhealthy.

 

[SkyWriting]

I couldn't agree with you more. Of all the Christian denominations, Southern Baptists are the MOST OBESE.

Come up north and check again.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Where do you find Scripture which says you can eat your way out of heaven?

I believe this passage makes it pretty clear that gluttons and drunkards won't be in Heaven ~

Deuteronomy 21:20 The parents must say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’

Deuteronomy 21:21 Then all the men of his town must stone him to death. In this way, you will purge this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.​

 

[coffee4u]

I believe this passage makes it pretty clear that gluttons and drunkards won't be in Heaven ~

Deuteronomy 21:20 The parents must say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’

Deuteronomy 21:21 Then all the men of his town must stone him to death. In this way, you will purge this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.​

Those are Old Testament verses, Jesus died for all sins including gluttony and drunkenness.

Now not to say people can simply sin and not worry about it.
Romans 6

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

But people, even those who have repented still struggle with sin.
Romans 7
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

I would be careful before pointing fingers because it is a rare person indeed who does not struggle repeatedly with some sin.
I would be more inclined to simply thank God that gluttony or drunkenness is not your own weakness but instead realize what is and focus prayer on that rather than what others struggle with.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Those are Old Testament verses

What does them being Old Testament verses have to do with anything? You don't believe that the Old Testament is equally inspired by God as the New Testament? Are you aware that a vast amount of the Old Testament is repeated in the New Testament???

 

[mama2one]

Overweight & Obesity Statistics | NIDDK

probably higher now as these stats are from 2017
"Nearly 1 in 3 adults (30.7%) are overweight.
More than 2 in 5 adults (42.4%) have obesity."


weight is a complicated issue
it's extremely difficult to lose weight
it comes off SO slowly so many give up when trying to lose

 

[mama2one]

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[Isilwen]

Most people equate obesity with extreme or morbid obesity, but bmi charts promote unhealthy expectations,

I agree. According to the BMI chart, I am obese and my actual weight should be 169 at the top end and 125 at the lower end. If you look at me I have the typical dad bod. Just only my stomach that is where I am big.

Now to lose weight, I have tried to reduce my caloric intake and I walk more. However, that hasn't worked. I don't fast as I am hypoglycemic. I also don't like fruit (hate the textures and some of the taste) and eat limited vegetables. I eat mostly chicken and rarely eat beef (these days chicken is hard to find in stores). Would love to eat more fish, but cannot afford to.

With summer coming up, I'll walk less as it is just too stinking hot here in Florida to do so. Even at night. I have a mountain bike, but need to have it assembled and just haven't had the time or money to get it assembled yet. Those are the only two exercise activities you'll see me do.

I don't really look at the BMI chart. Would people say that I am overweight, certainly, but the majority would never call me obese. I'm not really obese.

 

[d taylor]

I believe this passage makes it pretty clear that gluttons and drunkards won't be in Heaven ~

Deuteronomy 21:20 The parents must say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’

Deuteronomy 21:21 Then all the men of his town must stone him to death. In this way, you will purge this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.​

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If a drunkard or glutton has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life, then yes they will be in heaven.

 

[coffee4u]

What does them being Old Testament verses have to do with anything? You don't believe that the Old Testament is equally inspired by God as the New Testament? Are you aware that a vast amount of the Old Testament is repeated in the New Testament???

View attachment 313473

Of course I do, all scripture is God breathed, but thanks be to God we are not under Old Testament law.
I wasn't attacking you friend, just pointing out that its all too easy to see the splinter in someone else's eye while missing the plank in our own.

The fact is that you ignored the rest of what I said.

 

[The Narrow Way]

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If a drunkard or glutton has trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life, then yes they will be in heaven.

ONLY if our TRUST translates into GIVING UP our sin, will we be saved. Otherwise, it's counterfeit trust.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Of course I do, all scripture is God breathed, but thanks be to God we are not under Old Testament law.
I wasn't attacking you friend, just pointing out that its all too easy to see the splinter in someone else's eye while missing the plank in our own.

The fact is that you ignored the rest of what I said.

I'm sorry @coffee4u , I only copied the 1st part of your post, as that was the part I was commenting on. I didn't take it that you were "attacking" me at all, but rather that we look at the Old and New Testament from very different perspectives. The Old Testament has just as much weight with me as does the New Testament.

 

[d taylor]

ONLY if our TRUST translates into GIVING UP our sin, will we be saved. Otherwise, it's counterfeit trust.

That is a human created idea.

The Messiah (Jesus) took away the sin of the world at the cross. The only condition stated for a person to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life is trust/faith/belief in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

There is no other condition: not repentance, obedience, confessing Jesus, Feeling sorry for ones sins, baptism, saying a prayer, etc...

 

[Jake Arsenal]

I believe this passage makes it pretty clear that gluttons and drunkards won't be in Heaven ~

Deuteronomy 21:20 The parents must say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’

Deuteronomy 21:21 Then all the men of his town must stone him to death. In this way, you will purge this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.​

I am amazed at how out of context you have taken this. This verse is about a disobedient son being removed from the congregation so that his rebellious habits do not spread like a disease through the congregation. The Apostle Paul refers to this passage of Deuteronomy multiple times(even in regards to eating) and never discusses gluttony. In fact, gluttony is only mentioned four times in the bible(Deuteronomy 21:20, Proverbs 23:21, Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34), and two of the times are accusations against Jesus. The Old Testament laws cover a wide variety of topics, yet completely fail to make a prohibitive reference to gluttony. On top of this, I have previously espoused arguments(which you completely ignored) for why a BMI definition of obesity does not automatically infer gluttony.

Looking at the definitions of obesity, I think anyone with food security who does not spend many hours exercising and obsessing over physical fitness/diet would qualify as obese by the time they reach midlife, even those who practice regular fasting and healthy portions. Most people equate obesity with extreme or morbid obesity, but bmi charts promote unhealthy expectations, especially for people who practice regular fasting.

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmi_tbl.pdf

I generally think physical fitness should take up very little of our time and focus(unless required by our occupation), but should not be ignored entirely. Christians should focus on godliness rather than worrying about such things.

Since there was not even an Old Testament Law against gluttony(most Christians accept that we are free from the ceremonial law by the blood of Jesus), you are literally fulfilling that which the Spirit clearly said.

1 Timothy 4
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

Where else in the bible is the Spirit quoted as speaking so clearly?

For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.(1 Corinthians 10:29-31)

 

[coffee4u]

I'm sorry @coffee4u , I only copied the 1st part of your post, as that was the part I was commenting on. I didn't take it that you were "attacking" me at all, but rather that we look at the Old and New Testament from very different perspectives. The Old Testament has just as much weight with me as does the New Testament.

That's okay.
I don't know, I also find great importance in the Old Testament and I normally agree with your posts that I have seen around. This is probably why I have not replied to one before.

This is not really aimed at you its just something I see that hits me hard and it upsets me.Also I am a women and a mother so maybe I see the emotional side of this more clearly.
Fact remains is that none of are perfect this side of heaven, we all fall short.
If someone has claimed Christ and hates their sin they need encouragement and support not judgment. I also think its all too easy to fall into the "I'm all right because I don't do x" trap while overlooking where we do fall short, because we do. I don't believe for one second that a perfect person exists except for Jesus. This means we are still committing some kind of sin, no matter how small.
Telling someone struggling with eating, "You took a second slice of cake you're a glutton, God won't accept you" is extremely judgmental, hurtful and damaging. It also places our being saved on us, on how good we are, when its all of Christ not us.

Maybe the man pointed to is a glutton, and maybe he already knows that and struggles and prays about it. Does this mean Christ will turn him away when he is trusting on him for salvation? I don't believe so. Maybe the person pointing out the gluttony gossips or loses their temper and doesn't even notice, its hypocritical. A loose tongue and a bad temper is every bit as sinful. Blindness to ones own faults often lies behind judgment because the judgmental person tends to feel superior. Pride is also a sin.
1 Corinthians 13:1
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Understanding that you (general you) are just as much a sinner brings humility and empathy. A perfect person tends to have none.

 

[The Narrow Way]

I am amazed at how out of context you have taken this. This verse is about a disobedient son being removed from the congregation so that his rebellious habits do not spread like a disease through the congregation. The Apostle Paul refers to this passage of Deuteronomy multiple times(even in regards to eating) and never discusses gluttony. In fact, gluttony is only mentioned four times in the bible(Deuteronomy 21:20, Proverbs 23:21, Matthew 11:19, Luke 7:34), and two of the times are accusations against Jesus. The Old Testament laws cover a wide variety of topics, yet completely fail to make a prohibitive reference to gluttony. On top of this, I have previously espoused arguments(which you completely ignored) for why a BMI definition of obesity does not automatically infer gluttony.



Since there was not even an Old Testament Law against gluttony(most Christians accept that we are free from the ceremonial law by the blood of Jesus), you are literally fulfilling that which the Spirit clearly said.


Where else in the bible is the Spirit quoted as speaking so clearly?

For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.(1 Corinthians 10:29-31)

Sorry @Jake Arsenal, but I believe you are taking these texts out of context.

When the Bible talks about "For bodily exercise profiteth little:" 1 Timothy 4, that is only saying that you cannot EXERCISE your way into Heaven, just as you cannot EAT your way into Heaven. It's not saying that what you eat and if you exercise has nothing to do with your health or your Christianity....it has EVERYTHING to do it with BOTH. God reaches us thru our minds...if our bodies are not healthy, our minds are not healthy either as our mind is part of our body....we won't easily discern what He is trying to tell us....poor health is a deterrent to spiritual growth.

And besides, God has clearly told us that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost, and that we have a duty and responsibility to take care of it...and yes, to not do our best to eat and live as we know is the best way, is a sin.

I don't believe that the BMI gives false expectations at all. The problem is, when people are younger, they are more active and exercise more usually, but as they age, they exercise less, but they don't cut back on their eating....so they gain weight as they age. It shouldn't be that way. My husband and I both way less now that we are in our 60's than we did in our 30's. We both run on the treadmill everyday and follow the light God has given us in His Word as to what we should eat, and we experience good health. Neither of us are on any medications.