isshinwhat

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Although the tenants of each religion cannot be reconciled in belief, given the Trinitarian formula, that does not mean monotheistic religions cannot coexist in a filial spirit of ecumenism, for that is at the heart and essence of each system.

I agree that men of goodwill should work alongside one another.

God is Love and whether a monotheistic belief system teaches the Trinity or not, they each share a belief in the one true God, (Vatican II) as Islam and Judaism do.

By virtue of who we each worship, we must teach Love and if any given teacher from either system does not, then that teacher is mistaken.

Several of the Early Church Fathers believed Islam was a syncretic heresy, didn't they (serious historical question)? Regardless, I know good men who are Muslim and by all appearances seek after God with their whole hearts. I pray for their conversion, but in the meantime appreciate their goodwill and friendship.

In that sense, the term "Chrislam" could be seen as an expression of the Holy Spirit in that: even though these systems cannot be united in all their beliefs, they can and should always be united in the Love of the one true God, in and by its peoples, for God and each other.

A big negative for me on the bolded portion, but I understand your sentiment.
 
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Rochir

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WarriorAngel

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There was a Muslim kid who studied at Holy Names College in Oakland, CA. He was born in Saudi Arabia and helped at his family's lemon and date farm, and also worked for a relief society in Afghanistan. He was conservative and by all appearances put his faith into practice. He was just the kind of young man many would hold up as a posterchild for interreligious dialogue... Not only was he a Muslim, but he studied at a Catholic University, helped his family in their business and helped his fellow man when they needed it most. Everyone seemed to like him... Then September 11th came and the nice young man who went to the Catholic College and helped on the farm helped fly a jet into the Pentagon.

HHanjour0.JPG


There was also another young man from Lebanon. He was enrolled in La Sagesse Cathlolic School where he helped disabled children and ran an anti-drug organization. Later, this caring young man helped at the church orphanage. His story is, by all appearances, another brilliant example of religious cooperation and diversity overcoming ages of hate. After moving to Germany, he met a beautiful young lady and fell in love. His more devout friends didn't like the fact that they lived together, but he wasn't overtly religious anyway, so what could they expect. A few years later he moved to the US where the people he hung out with remember him as being kind and caring. He called his girlfriend daily and talked about her often.

Jarrah-2000-Flying-Florida.jpg


But this good-looking, Catholic school attending young man who helped orphans and the handicapped also piloted an airliner that attempted to crash into the Capitol Building until its passengers overcame their hijackers and he crashed it into a field, killing 44 people.

The enemy doesn't always look like this:

pals%20rally%20islamic%20jihad%201%2004.jpg


It often looks like this:

gallery_ziadJarrah.jpg


That is what makes terror so truly terrible. It can be perpetrated by people who appear just like you and me. Doctors from London, students at your Cathlolic University... And the fact is, they aren't all that different. So long as we repeat the meme that acts of violence are perpetrated only or even mainly by the fringe, or only by those that have no money and are being taken advantage of, we will gain little headway. How does one overcome it? I wish I knew... I have Iraqi comrades that will point blank tell you that they hated America 7-8 years ago, but now would fight and die by your side as a brother. What makes one man have a change of heart, while another who went to a Catholic School and helped handicapped children flies a plane full of civilians to their death? What makes otherwise intelligent men and women embrace the cause of martyrdom through committing atrocities? That is a complicated and multi-faceted issue with no easy answers.
The thing is, once taught the true Islamic ways, which is polar opposite to Christianity, there is always an open option to maim and kill someone for Allah.
Unless true conversion of the heart occurs - they remain faithful to the laws of Islam, which is hate for others.

The thing is, being so opposite to Christianity - most Christians cannot comprehend their attachment to this system.

And that will never change them unless or until they were to convert in the heart.

I am wary. I used to date a guy from Malaysia - who told me to stay far away from them...and never trust them. Malaysia is overcome by Islam now, and wars are going on. This wasnt the case when i was dating him, because it was mostly Hindu then. And few Islams lived in Malaysia compared to now when they seem to have over taken it.

Hindu is of course pagan,m and so the pagans are very hated.

Ppl demand we respect this faith and not lump anyone in the group - because they are moderate. Moderate is a term used when the % is so low, like in America being at 1% that they cannot enforce Sharia law.

Someone wrote how the numbers go up - so does the violence. IF we allow more in, we allow violence to perpetrate like in France where riots happen and 'areas' of Muslims live are living their system of Sharia that not even the police want to go there.

Europe is seeing this - but not in every place. But the places seeing it are seeing how ppl can change when their groups multiply.

Islam is like cancer. Its easy to maintain if it is just growing or benign. But once it is malignant - and the cells create a large mass - the cancer can kill.

Christians do not comprehend this - nor do they understand in a country saturated with Christianity and freedom that anyone could harm another. But allow greater numbers and the mindset grows tremendously.

I think ppl would change their minds if they actually visited the countries where Churches are being burned and Christians shot while attending Mass.

The war in Baghdad - where allegedly citizens were killed - was so erroneously reported by the American media it was just gross. First of all, as i am sure you know, insurgents are citizens who take up arms to help terrorists. The citizens didnt wear the garb of al queda BUT they had guns and attacked the soldiers who retaliated.

The media made it look like the soldiers attacked citizens. Ignoring the insurgents are in fact citizens willing to kill.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Or you could just read what I wrote and see that I am not stereotyping anyone. Do I think any of my Iraqi friends are terrorists? No. Neither do I believe that my Afghani, Jordanian, Nigerian, Pakistani, or Saudi buds are terrorists. My youngest daughter wears a gold bracelet given to her on the occasion of her birth by one particularly kind-hearted Saudi friend. We have talked religion, and I can honestly say that he cares more deeply for his family than almost anyone I have ever met, and I pray often that God blesses him. He is a good man, and a Muslim. My point, and my only point, is this; the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are not the lunatic fringe. It's comforting to think that, but the truth of the matter is more complicated and more terrifying (which is the goal). Due to a variety of reasons, perfectly sane people choose to act atrociously.



Some certainly are, but the majority of Islamic terrorists are not. The majority are perfectly sane men and women driven to act by the ideals they possess, the perception of a threat, and the buy-in to a Jihadi culture.



If you are talking about an American saying those things, I agree. We are not talking about Americans, we are talking about different cultures with different values.



I think you fail to appreciate the depth of certain resentments and beliefs within particular populations. A charismatic leader may exist, and it can definitely help their recruiting efforts, but it is often the selling of an overall ideal by a culture itself that draws people in (to this extent I agree with your aptly termed mob mentality assessment). Believe it or not, they have marketed Jihadism extremely well and are trying to drive more people to act without joining into large groups or falling under a particular leader. Because of that, a charismatic leader is not required.


Islam is very different in values than Christianity.

I watched some youtube vid's that were so wonderful. Islamics who felt empty - and found Christianity with their whole hearts.

This does happen, thank the Lord, and most however are martyred for it.
:crossrc:
Someone in here said to someone some weeks past - who taut that its mean to lump together the group. They said 'Go to a country where Christians are being killed and wear a cross to the market and see what happens.'


I believe your continued prayers will work. :crossrc:
 
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WarriorAngel

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Maybe I should cite the attacks in Norway and then conclude that all conservative Christians are terrorists. Or maybe I should cite the decades/centuries of violence in Ireland. Except that would be tacky and demeaning to the victims, and most conservative Christians would vociferously protest that conclusion. Stereotyping isn't fun when it gets turned around on the people doing the stereotyping.
As bad as it was in Ireland, it was Christian vs Christian in an isolated country.
It wasnt world wide.

The few Christians who do these things are called out by other Christians - vs the so called moderate Muslims who do nothing or say nothing, or care little about what some in their faith are doing.

Where are their leaders chastising them?

Where are their leaders calling for an end to it?

They arent.

The Pope and other leaders in Christianity on the other hand - do.
I'm not going go through all of your examples. Deconstructing the first one is sufficient. His Wikipedia Article tells us that he became frustrated with getting rejected from civil aviation school and his views of Islam became increasingly radical. He then lied to his family, left the country, and was recruited by al-Qaeda:
His brother, Yasser, relayed that Hanjour, frustrated, "turned his attention toward religious texts and cassette tapes of militant Islamic preachers."​
This wasn't some guy just arbitrarily deciding to become a terrorist as if it were a decision to change careers. There is a documented history of his descent into lunacy and what he eventually ended up doing because of it. I do notice that you left this part out of your story.

For every 1 radical Islamic terrorist out there, there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims who would never do such a thing, and would condemn terrorism like the rest sane humanity.
As i said they always have the option to chose to do these things because THIS IS iSLAM.

My video shows children being taught to by jihadists against the enemy. Which is - anyone NOT Islamic. And these are not fringies...these are small girls and boys taught this in their schools.
Terrorists are the lunatic fringe. Just because intelligent, well-off people wind up there doesn't mean that they aren't crazy. It takes a pretty large dose of insanity and cognitive dissonance to rationalize terrorist violence, especially on the scale of 9/11. Not all crazy people are babbling weirdos who think they're Shakespeare.
As i said, Christians cannot comprehend this because we unlike them are taught tolerance, love, and praying for our enemies.

This is a completely opposite teaching, religion and law system.
Muhammad taught these things. He acted these things. For them to completely hate the violence and actions would mean they completely hate Muhammad and there is the conundrum - because he was their great prophet.

To say they wont do these things, or cannot do these things - is saying they revoke Muhammad. And you just arent going to get them to do that.

Insane, yah i agree. But it is part of their prophet - something you cannot understand.
The point is that there isn't something inherent to Islam that makes all of its adherents terrorists or supporting of terrorism. However, there is a common theme across all terrorist groups, regardless of religion. Add one charismatic leader, a dash of conflict, and a handful of frustrated people and you have a recipe for terrorism.
Muhammad was all that. Their whole religion, laws and such are strictly based on what he wrote, said and did. [tho denial is strong he wrote the koran and suggest that Allah placed it on earth]. To believe that is to NOT believe in Christ.
It's a good example of mob mentality and/or the cult psychology. To be honest, I think it's a blend of both. You have enough people throwing popular support behind the movement: that's the mob mentality. You have a charismatic leader who can spin anything (no matter how crazy) into something rational: that's the cult mentality. Combine the two and you'll get recruits for terrorist operations.

Tell me what part of Islam is rational.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Do you know MUSLIM families, who have about nothing for themselves, are now taking care of hungry children who have flet from Somalia to Kenia?

Those cruel, inhumane, bastly Muslims indeed!
I checked Muslim charities they give absolutely nothing to anyone not Muslim.
And rely rather on CHristian countries to give charity than take care of even their Muslims, and rather spend money on military expenses....

I looked it up.

Hmmmm.

And they are taking in Muslims from Somalia which is 100% Muslim. I am not surprised.
Somalia also has no government, just insurgent militants bullying the poor and taking any food dropped.

Watch 'Black Hawk Down'.
 
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Rochir

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Watch 'Black Hawk Down'.

I do not rely on a movie to show me the charity Muslims are capable of!

But if someone does, watch "Mohammed" or any picture showing Richard the Lion-hearted in action on the Crusades in Jerusalem!
 
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WarriorAngel

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I do not rely on a movie to show me the charity Muslims are capable of!

But if someone does, watch "Mohammed" or any picture showing Richard the Lion-hearted in action on the Crusades in Jerusalem!
I saw it, wasnt true to life.

NO, the movie Black Hawk Down isnt about charity - its about how Muslims act in great numbers.
 
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S.ilvio

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I feel the Moderators need to get into this thread and cull WA's racist and xenophobic posts. No right thinking Catholic would want to be associated with such dangerous and exremist views.

The last thing I want is my Islamic neighbours and friends to think Wa's views are widely accepted in Catholic circles.

WarriorAngel: Please refrain from your disgusting remarks...
 
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WarriorAngel

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Why Islam is incompatible with Christianity and how it contradicts itself:

Contradictions in the Qur'an | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry



What part dont you like Jared? Have you seen Black Hawk Down? A true story.
The Somalian poor needed food and because of the great violence, the troops had to drop food off via arial means.
Terrorist Islamics ruled and rule the country. [Hence pirates]
The terrorists took the food, shot women and children and they were left to die.
Meantime, America went in to take out the terrorists so the ppl could eat.
You would think it would have been simple.

Fact is, every person in the city - men - women - children carried and used guns against the troops. When the Hawks went down some of the men were pulled apart at their limbs and their bodies shown off.

This was the entire city...

This was true.

Why am i the bad guy?
Somalia is 100% Muslim. They dont care for the poor - they left them starve to death [literally] and they dont care if someone is trying to help them.
There is no government and their was no compassion.
One guy who went down in the Hawk came out alive.

THIS is not me, this is the true story. If you watched it, you would understand. Very violent.
 
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WarriorAngel

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I checked Muslim charities they give absolutely nothing to anyone not Muslim.
And rely rather on CHristian countries to give charity than take care of even their Muslims, and rather spend money on military expenses....

I looked it up.

Hmmmm.

.
Zakat: Muslim “charity” for Muslims only « Creeping Sharia

Raymond Ibrahim, associate director of the Middle East Forum, whom the USA Today author mentions, sheds some light on the Islamic concept of zakat in ‘Why Muslim Charities Fund the Jihad‘: So it is with the Muslim concept of zakat, a word often rendered into English as “charity.” But is that all zakat is — mere Muslim benevolence by way of feeding and clothing the destitute of the world, as the word “charity” all too often connotes?
As with all things Islamic, one must first examine the legal aspects of zakat to truly appreciate its purport. Etymologically related to the notion of “purity,” zakat — paying a portion of one’s wealth to specifically designated recipients — is a way of purifying oneself, on par with prayers (see Koran 9:103).
The problem, however, has to do with who is eligible for this mandatory “charity.” Most schools of Muslim jurisprudence are agreed to eight possible categories of recipients — one of these being those fighting “in the path of Allah,” that is, jihadis, also known as “terrorists.”
In fact, financially supporting jihadis is a recognized form of jihad — jihad al-mal; even the vast majority of militant verses in the Koran (e.g., 9:20, 9:41, 49:15, 61:10-11) prioritize the need to fund the jihad over merely fighting in it, as fighting with one’s wealth often precedes fighting with one’s self. Well-known Islamists — from international jihadi Osama bin Laden to authoritative cleric Sheikh Qaradawi — are well aware of this and regularly exhort Muslims to fund the jihad via zakat.
More revealing of the peculiarly Islamic nature of zakat is the fact that Muslims are actually forbidden from bestowing this “charity” onto non-Muslims (e.g., the vast majority of American infidels). “Charitable” Muslim organizations operating on American soil are therefore no mere equivalents to, say, the Salvation Army, a Christian charity organization whose “ministry extends to all, regardless of ages, sex, color, or creed.” In Islam, creed is a major criterion for receiving “charity” — not to mention for receiving social equality.
From here, one can better understand Obama’s lament that “in the United States, rules on charitable giving have made it harder for Muslims to fulfill their religious obligation” — a statement that unwittingly implies that American zakat has, in fact, been used to fund the jihad. After all, these irksome “rules” to which Obama alludes appear to be a reference to the presumably “excessive” scrutiny American Muslim “charities” are subject to by law enforcement. Yet this scrutiny is itself a direct byproduct of the fact that American Muslim “charities” have indeed been funding the jihad, both at home and abroad.
Both Ibrahim and USA Today ran follow-up pieces on the topic and you can read about them here.
 
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