Chrislam?

[Virgil the Roman]

. . . We're too racist to embrace anything associated with Arabic people.

Except Christianity.

 

[Memento Mori]

Except Christianity.

Even then, how many churches worship Nice White Jesus?

 

[JoabAnias]

Mat 12:8

If you knew what this meant, I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
you would not have condemned these innocent men.

 

[Andy Hardy]

Jesus said something about not being able to sit at his table and satan's at the same time.

Conflating Satan and Islam is wrong on so many levels I don't know how to begin.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Even then, how many churches worship Nice White Jesus?

Many. Jesus is white or copper-coloured in filipino, mexican, and coptic Churches, though.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I wouldn't worry about it becoming more than a small trend in the U.S. We're too racist to embrace anything associated with Arabic people.

Well, its not exactly their love for us that causes us to have reservations to their intent.
But race aside, the Islam religion is the opposite of Christianity.
The polar opposite. For Christ said not to follow those who would come after Him, for they would be false prophets and christs.

Muhammad came and changed Jesus from God into a prophet that was to lead him >Muhammad< in... and Paul, well, they really dislike Paul.

The whole system of Islam is anti Bible and anti christ.

 

[Memento Mori]

Well, its not exactly their love for us that causes us to have reservations to their intent.

I think I can count on one hand the number of Arabic persons I've met, so I really have no idea how "they" feel about "us."

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think I can count on one hand the number of Arabic persons I've met, so I really have no idea how "they" feel about "us."

It depends greatly on how they are raising their children. If in the Islamic system, the love they have for others is iffy at best.

&#x202a;The shocking video Muslims don&#39;t want you to see!!&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

 

[StThomasMore]

Well, its not exactly their love for us that causes us to have reservations to their intent.
But race aside, the Islam religion is the opposite of Christianity.
The polar opposite. For Christ said not to follow those who would come after Him, for they would be false prophets and christs.

Muhammad came and changed Jesus from God into a prophet that was to lead him >Muhammad< in... and Paul, well, they really dislike Paul.

The whole system of Islam is anti Bible and anti christ.

Much of the Quran confirms what the bible says. So much of the Quran does have truths. So I wouldn't say its the opposite, as they do consider Jesus as the Christ and they seem similar to the Arians. It definitely has more in common than, say, Talmudic Judiasm or Hinduism.

The denial of Christs divinity and the issue of the Trinity is the big separating factor, as the Trinity is the main essential element in Christianity. But I wouldn't say its the polar opposite.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Oh are we making sweeping generalizations about huge groups of people based on the actions of the lunatic fringe?

That's always exciting!

 

[isshinwhat]

The whole system of Islam is anti Bible and anti christ.

Agreed. The two faiths are overall not compatible, although we can work side-by-side using the similarities between our faiths to advance goodwill.

1 John 2:22-23 - Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.

For instance, I had a conversation last week with a man who made a statement that I whole-heartedly agreed with, "this money, your house, your things... all of that is pointless in the end. Can you take it into Heaven with you? No!" He then proceeded to say how Muslims, Christians, indeed all people are children of Adam and therefore are brothers who should care for one another and, "stop killing for stuff."

That, in and of itself is a great statement, but his very next one was, "I will kill for God, but not stuff. It's not right." The next day our conversation continued and I got to hear all kinds of nonsense which began with the former PLO "liberation fighter" stating that the Holocaust did not happen as we hear, and to the extent that it did happen, the Jews deserved it and brought it upon themselves, continued through an anti-American tirade, then concluded with praise of the Arab Spring which would lead to the, "annhilation of Israel," his condemnation of Christianity as nonsense, Confession as, "bull XXXX," and the Trinity as, "terrible, created lies."

He is not your lunatic fringe, he is just an average Joe who holds some pretty averages ideas among his people. Does that mean that he will go out and actively promote terrorism? Probably not... But he also told me that al Quaeda was not a terrorist organization, so take that for what it's worth. It is not what your average person will do in his position, but what he will allow to happen through empathy; what he will fail to condemn. What seems atrocious to us does not to many people in the world.

I'll be back to continue my thought in a few minutes. Time to Skype my daughter's birthday.

 

[isshinwhat]

Oh are we making sweeping generalizations about huge groups of people based on the actions of the lunatic fringe?

That's always exciting!

There was a Muslim kid who studied at Holy Names College in Oakland, CA. He was born in Saudi Arabia and helped at his family's lemon and date farm, and also worked for a relief society in Afghanistan. He was conservative and by all appearances put his faith into practice. He was just the kind of young man many would hold up as a posterchild for interreligious dialogue... Not only was he a Muslim, but he studied at a Catholic University, helped his family in their business and helped his fellow man when they needed it most. Everyone seemed to like him... Then September 11th came and the nice young man who went to the Catholic College and helped on the farm helped fly a jet into the Pentagon.

There was also another young man from Lebanon. He was enrolled in La Sagesse Cathlolic School where he helped disabled children and ran an anti-drug organization. Later, this caring young man helped at the church orphanage. His story is, by all appearances, another brilliant example of religious cooperation and diversity overcoming ages of hate. After moving to Germany, he met a beautiful young lady and fell in love. His more devout friends didn't like the fact that they lived together, but he wasn't overtly religious anyway, so what could they expect. A few years later he moved to the US where the people he hung out with remember him as being kind and caring. He called his girlfriend daily and talked about her often.

But this good-looking, Catholic school attending young man who helped orphans and the handicapped also piloted an airliner that attempted to crash into the Capitol Building until its passengers overcame their hijackers and he crashed it into a field, killing 44 people.

The enemy doesn't always look like this:

It often looks like this:

That is what makes terror so truly terrible. It can be perpetrated by people who appear just like you and me. Doctors from London, students at your Cathlolic University... And the fact is, they aren't all that different. So long as we repeat the meme that acts of violence are perpetrated only or even mainly by the fringe, or only by those that have no money and are being taken advantage of, we will gain little headway. How does one overcome it? I wish I knew... I have Iraqi comrades that will point blank tell you that they hated America 7-8 years ago, but now would fight and die by your side as a brother. What makes one man have a change of heart, while another who went to a Catholic School and helped handicapped children flies a plane full of civilians to their death? What makes otherwise intelligent men and women embrace the cause of martyrdom through committing atrocities? That is a complicated and multi-faceted issue with no easy answers.

 

[Chrystal-J]

I've heard of Catholicism being wrongly mixed with voodoo/hoodoo. But, never heard of this (and I live in Detroit). My priest has never mentioned it. I don't see how it's possible to mix a religion that doesn't believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and our only salvation, with one that does. I can't imagine what the topics of the sermons are. It's not a matter of judging any religion, it's a matter of how can souls be saved? (By belief in Jesus Christ.) Telling someone anything less would be misleading.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

It isn't possible to mix Christianity and Mohammedanism; those who think that it is, are fools.

 

[ProScribe]

Its better to keep Christianity and Islam as two separate religions.

 

[S.ilvio]

We should embrace our Islamic neighbours, respect their beliefs while acknowledging our differences. However at the end of the day, dialogue in an atmosphere of mutual respect always trumps irrational fear and loathing...

 

[JoabAnias]

Although the tenants of each religion cannot be reconciled in belief, given the Trinitarian formula, that does not mean monotheistic religions cannot coexist in a filial spirit of ecumenism, for that is at the heart and essence of each system.

God is Love and whether a monotheistic belief system teaches the Trinity or not, they each share a belief in the one true God, (Vatican II) as Islam and Judaism do.

By virtue of who we each worship, we must teach Love and if any given teacher from either system does not, then that teacher is mistaken.

In that sense, the term "Chrislam" could be seen as an expression of the Holy Spirit in that: even though these systems cannot be united in all their beliefs, they can and should always be united in the Love of the one true God, in and by its peoples, for God and each other.

 

[benedictaoo]

Oh Lord help me but I agree with Joab and Jarred.

Just keep in mind, thing are rarely as they seem.

 

[Dark_Lite]

There was a Muslim kid who studied at Holy Names College in Oakland, CA. He was born in Saudi Arabia and helped at his family's lemon and date farm, and also worked for a relief society in Afghanistan. He was conservative and by all appearances put his faith into practice. He was just the kind of young man many would hold up as a posterchild for interreligious dialogue... Not only was he a Muslim, but he studied at a Catholic University, helped his family in their business and helped his fellow man when they needed it most. Everyone seemed to like him... Then September 11th came and the nice young man who went to the Catholic College and helped on the farm helped fly a jet into the Pentagon.

<...>

Maybe I should cite the attacks in Norway and then conclude that all conservative Christians are terrorists. Or maybe I should cite the decades/centuries of violence in Ireland. Except that would be tacky and demeaning to the victims, and most conservative Christians would vociferously protest that conclusion. Stereotyping isn't fun when it gets turned around on the people doing the stereotyping.

I'm not going go through all of your examples. Deconstructing the first one is sufficient. His Wikipedia Article tells us that he became frustrated with getting rejected from civil aviation school and his views of Islam became increasingly radical. He then lied to his family, left the country, and was recruited by al-Qaeda:

His brother, Yasser, relayed that Hanjour, frustrated, "turned his attention toward religious texts and cassette tapes of militant Islamic preachers."​

This wasn't some guy just arbitrarily deciding to become a terrorist as if it were a decision to change careers. There is a documented history of his descent into lunacy and what he eventually ended up doing because of it. I do notice that you left this part out of your story.

For every 1 radical Islamic terrorist out there, there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims who would never do such a thing, and would condemn terrorism like the rest sane humanity.

That is what makes terror so truly terrible. It can be perpetrated by people who appear just like you and me. Doctors from London, students at your Cathlolic University... And the fact is, they aren't all that different. So long as we repeat the meme that acts of violence are perpetrated only or even mainly by the fringe, or only by those that have no money and are being taken advantage of, we will gain little headway. How does one overcome it? I wish I knew... I have Iraqi comrades that will point blank tell you that they hated America 7-8 years ago, but now would fight and die by your side as a brother. What makes one man have a change of heart, while another who went to a Catholic School and helped handicapped children flies a plane full of civilians to their death? What makes otherwise intelligent men and women embrace the cause of martyrdom through committing atrocities? That is a complicated and multi-faceted issue with no easy answers.

Terrorists are the lunatic fringe. Just because intelligent, well-off people wind up there doesn't mean that they aren't crazy. It takes a pretty large dose of insanity and cognitive dissonance to rationalize terrorist violence, especially on the scale of 9/11. Not all crazy people are babbling weirdos who think they're Shakespeare.

The point is that there isn't something inherent to Islam that makes all of its adherents terrorists or supporting of terrorism. However, there is a common theme across all terrorist groups, regardless of religion. Add one charismatic leader, a dash of conflict, and a handful of frustrated people and you have a recipe for terrorism.

It's a good example of mob mentality and/or the cult psychology. To be honest, I think it's a blend of both. You have enough people throwing popular support behind the movement: that's the mob mentality. You have a charismatic leader who can spin anything (no matter how crazy) into something rational: that's the cult mentality. Combine the two and you'll get recruits for terrorist operations.

 

[isshinwhat]

Maybe I should cite the attacks in Norway and then conclude that all conservative Christians are terrorists. Or maybe I should cite the decades/centuries of violence in Ireland. Except that would be tacky and demeaning to the victims, and most conservative Christians would vociferously protest that conclusion. Stereotyping isn't fun when it gets turned around on the people doing the stereotyping.

Or you could just read what I wrote and see that I am not stereotyping anyone. Do I think any of my Iraqi friends are terrorists? No. Neither do I believe that my Afghani, Jordanian, Nigerian, Pakistani, or Saudi buds are terrorists. My youngest daughter wears a gold bracelet given to her on the occasion of her birth by one particularly kind-hearted Saudi friend. We have talked religion, and I can honestly say that he cares more deeply for his family than almost anyone I have ever met, and I pray often that God blesses him. He is a good man, and a Muslim. My point, and my only point, is this; the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are not the lunatic fringe. It's comforting to think that, but the truth of the matter is more complicated and more terrifying (which is the goal). Due to a variety of reasons, perfectly sane people choose to act atrociously.

Terrorists are the lunatic fringe.

Some certainly are, but the majority of Islamic terrorists are not. The majority are perfectly sane men and women driven to act by the ideals they possess, the perception of a threat, and the buy-in to a Jihadi culture.

It takes a pretty large dose of insanity and cognitive dissonance to rationalize terrorist violence, especially on the scale of 9/11.

If you are talking about an American saying those things, I agree. We are not talking about Americans, we are talking about different cultures with different values.

The point is that there isn't something inherent to Islam that makes all of its adherents terrorists or supporting of terrorism. However, there is a common theme across all terrorist groups, regardless of religion. Add one charismatic leader, a dash of conflict, and a handful of frustrated people and you have a recipe for terrorism.

It's a good example of mob mentality and/or the cult psychology. To be honest, I think it's a blend of both. You have enough people throwing popular support behind the movement: that's the mob mentality. You have a charismatic leader who can spin anything (no matter how crazy) into something rational: that's the cult mentality. Combine the two and you'll get recruits for terrorist operations.

I think you fail to appreciate the depth of certain resentments and beliefs within particular populations. A charismatic leader may exist, and it can definitely help their recruiting efforts, but it is often the selling of an overall ideal by a culture itself that draws people in (to this extent I agree with your aptly termed mob mentality assessment). Believe it or not, they have marketed Jihadism extremely well and are trying to drive more people to act without joining into large groups or falling under a particular leader. Because of that, a charismatic leader is not required.