Chimps and humans: How similar are we really?

mark kennedy

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-_- circadian rhythm is controlled by the brain. Sleep is a brain function. But no, says the guy that acted as if metabolic disorders were the result of brain gene mutations. You like to broaden your choices when it suits you, but when it does it, you sure like to narrow your perspective. Sleep is controlled by the brain, I will not stand for your suggestion that it is not relevant to brain function when it is controlled by the brain directly.
Apparently this cycle is controlled, in a lot of ways, by a protein. Now granted, this isn't a brain related disorder but at the same time it's not exactly an evolutionary giant leap forward. 'Apparently a point mutation changed the amino acid at position 384 from a proline to arginine' (Genetic Basis of Human Circadian Rhythm Disorders, NCBI). Obviously a legitimate CVN, little more then a minor phenotype variation.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Apparently this cycle is controlled, in a lot of ways, by a protein.
Every body process is controlled by proteins. Every. Single. One. What did you think genes did, produce sugar?

Now granted, this isn't a brain related disorder but at the same time it's not exactly an evolutionary giant leap forward.
Who cares, it disproves your assertion that mutations in brain function genes cannot be beneficial. Furthermore, who said every single mutation would be a giant leap forward or backward by itself? Gene influence can be greatly expanded by further mutation. Two genes that, independently, reduce time needed for sleep only by an hour or two, combined could result in reducing sleep time by half.

'Apparently a point mutation changed the amino acid at position 384 from a proline to arginine' (Genetic Basis of Human Circadian Rhythm Disorders, NCBI). Obviously a legitimate CVN, little more then a minor phenotype variation.
-_- variations in intelligence, on a generational scale, are minor phenotype variations. They build up over time.
 
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tas8831

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I notice a trend - when creationists have their bluffs called, they tend to simply stop posting in that thread.


Original post:

Chimps and humans: How similar are we really?


Ok, great! Thrill me with your acumen!


You started out OK, then went pure Duane Gish. Phylogenetics is "Largely opinion" you say?

I suggest maybe reading Felsenstein's "Inferring Phylogenies" or Nei and Kumar's "Molecular Evolution and Phylogenetics".



Speaking of rhetoric...

You do realize - given your claims of decades of reading and work in the relevant sciences - that molecular phylogenetics methods are TESTED? Their outputs are not 'opinions'. Due to the nature of molecular data there are certainly confounding phenomena that can, depending on the type and amount of data being used, produce inconsistent outputs and the like. But that no more invalidates molecular phylogenies than does the fact that there are Old Earth Creationists and Young earth Creationists and this invalidates the veracity of Scripture (there are other things than can do that).



Such projection is rarely seen in the public at large, but it is part of the anti-evolutionist's tool kit.


This is the crux of my 'challenge' that you eventually addressed here, but as is your usual fashion, you wrote much more than was needed to simply avoid actually addressing the issue.

The issue I brought up is that you seem to focus on the length of the sequences. I pointed out that it is very common to have differing lengths of sequence for the 'same gene' due to areas of interest, reference sequences, sequencing difficulties, etc., and wondered if you had or would look into that possibility rather than attributing it all to some nefarious conspiracy.

Your response was largely irrelevant, but the bottom line, in my estimation, was that yes - you focused solely on the length of the sequences, which, due to my knowledge of the techniques involved and the impetus for generating sequence data in the first place, was superficial at best. As seen here:



Seems that your decades of reading would have informed you that genes often acquire different functions (e.g., genes important during development often play rather mundane roles later on) and that genes can be copied/modified and end up performing other functions.


But I suppose all that amassed knowledge is all just 'speculation' and opinion, too, right?

Half-true, at best.

I do enjoy the substantial amount of projection that ensues:



You just described creationism to a T.



Actually, if I had only the shallow, cherry-picked information you provided, I might be skeptical.

Alas, when I chose to work in phylogenetics lab in grad school, I was exposed to REAMS of data, not just a couple of cherry-picked 'what-do-you-think-of-THIS!!!' poorly described examples.
When one looks at the totality of available evidence (or even a chunk of it), looks at the actual large-scale patterns as opposed to a couple of anomalies, it becomes not just intuitively correct, but empirically supported conclusion.
 
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tas8831

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