Human/chimp DNA and the certainty phenomenon

tas8831

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Not just certainty - but I wanted to keep the title manageable.


A Fresh Look at Human-Chimp DNA Similarity

by Frost Smith on December 30, 2015

Often scientific reports or mainstream media claim 99% identical comparisons between human and chimp genomes.

(How often? I have NEVER heard that figure used. ALL offset parentheticals mine)



The number has been dropping in some circles recently, but is still on the order of 95+%. There is inherent bias in these calculations because significant lengths of DNA that are quite different between the two species are omitted from the results.


(Inherent bias? Do tell!)


A very simplified comparison would be comparing blue jeans (pardon the pun)


(Hoo hoo ha ha! so witty!)



with cut-off jeans. The fact that the legs are missing on one is discounted and only the upper portion is compared, with particular emphasis on the comparison of the rivets, buttons, pockets, topstitching, and zipper, but not much comparison on the brand, color, or the quality of the fabric.


(Creationists love their analogies, don't they? Read through this and notice what you do NOT see - an acknowledgement that there are actually sound reasons why some DNA is "ignored" or 'not counted')


In a similar way, gaps or missing portions (like the missing legs on the cut-off jeans) and regulatory portions (like the fabric) from one are typically ignored, and only gene-rich segments of DNA are analyzed (like pockets, buttons, and rivets).


(By 'in a similar way', I suppose they are referring to the frequency with which creationists misrepresent the issue. Also note the confidence that Frost employs - so matter of fact.)


Taking all those things into account, in 2012 creationist scientists Drs. Tomkins and Bergman came up with an overall similarity of around 81%—quite a difference!1


(Yes totally! Oh, and Bergman has no background at all in genetics or anything similar - his doctorate is in something like 'educational testing' or something. But the exclamation point - so certain!).


Other researchers have come up with even lower percent similarity, averaging around 70%.2 In 2013, Tomkins tested alignment of each chimpanzee chromosome against its human counterpart and only found an overall genome similarity of about 70%, which was published in Answers Research Journal.

(Yes. He found that. He also failed to take into account the reasons why. Of course, what we do NOT see is an analysis of, say, pairs of chromosomes from 2 humans being compared, or pairs of chromosomes from Tomkins believes are derived from an original Kind. Why is that?)

OMITTING MORE OF THE SAME TO LOOK AT SOME RATHER SILLY, BUT CERTAIN - and misleading - COMMENTARY

Is the Test Tube 80% Full or 20% Empty?

Looking at Tomkins’ lower percentages may give some a sigh of relief,


(Sigh of relief? Oh yes - the creationist, deep down, finds even the high % similarity troubling to their beliefs! So, decreasing the % similarity - by any means necessary - gives them 'relief.')


but the fact that we’re even 80% similar is disconcerting to many, or perhaps causes evolutionists to still assert common ancestry.


("assert"? So confident that common ancestry is just an "assumption" or "assertion" of the God-haters...)


But step outside either paradigm for a moment and consider how all plants and animals must function together, sharing organic material and using the same inorganic resources. Life simply wouldn’t work on this planet without some degree of sameness. The biologic functions that we all share involve the same mechanics: intake, metabolism, mobility, output, and so on. While there are numerous ways this is accomplished throughout the animal and plant kingdom, there are still these basic functions on even a cellular level, as well as a “macroorganism” and environmental level.

(this next part... Oy...)

LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS OF ACTUAL BASES PUTS THE PROBLEM IN EVEN CLEARER LIGHT.
And consider what that 20% difference means. There are roughly 20,000 protein-coding genes in the human genome. That would be a difference of roughly 4,000 proteins.

(Only providing that the 'new' % similarities refer ONLY to regions containing genes. )



And given that we expect there to be some commonality in proteins, for example, digestive enzymes, that 80% should be looking a bit less impressive. And keep in mind that less than 5% of the human genome contains protein-coding sequences.


(Yes - let's keep that in mind, for it sort of undermines the 'That would be a difference of roughly 4,000 proteins' claim...)



Looking at the numbers of actual bases puts the problem in even clearer light. Conservatively, if the human genome is over 3,000,000,000 base pairs, and the difference is 20%, that is 600,000,000 base pair differences just between humans and chimps!

(!)


That adds up to a lot of evolution when you consider all the organisms in the kingdoms of life—that couldn’t happen even in 6 billion years, especially considering the changes that are kept have to be viable, too!


(Where to start? ASSUMPTIONS -the differences are in coding regions; the differences have to be 'viable' - CONTRADICTION/INCONSISTENCY - remember, he just acknowledged that only 5% of the genome contains protein coding genes, so why would all of the 600,000,000 base pair differences have to be 'viable'? But gosh, he is CERTAIN!)


God created one world and made it a beautiful place for his creations to live together and thrive.

(Quite a 'conclusion' from what was written - wait, that is NOT a conclusion drawn from the science - that is an ASSUMPTION.)


Why wouldn’t He use good and common designs? Those things that aren’t good are a result of the Curse on creation that God pronounced in response to man’s desire to try to be a god himself in the Garden of Eden.

(More ASSUMPTION and QUESTION BEGGING.)


And still we are looking for a way to not give God the glory He deserves for His creation, because we’re back to our jean analogy with evolutionists only lining up rivets, pockets, and zippers and ignoring the rest, trying to make it seem simpler for a godless process. We will agree with them on the fact that the “jeans” all have one “designer” and contain similar materials and functional designs. But the Bible-believer’s designer is the God of the Bible, who created all things after their kind and pronounced His creation “very good” in Genesis 1. Consider the beauty, diversity, and complexity of creation and meditate upon Job 38–41. God is worthy.


(Amazing Creation science in action! Why do evolution news releases NEVER end with a paragraph or two about how the evidence 'shows the bible to be in error'?

Hmmm.....

Just an exercise in 'good for the gander')
 
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Jimmy D

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AIG, preying on the gullible. :oldthumbsup:

Answers In Genesis Inc - Volunteer, client and donor reviews and ratings on GreatNonprofits


"This organization has been life changing for our family. They are speaking truth and equipping the next generation. My family has visited the museum numerous times and we have heard Ken Ham speak on several occasions. We have been long time supporters as well. I'm very picky where I donate our money and I feel very confident that it is being used well here."

.....................................................

"Regardless of your personal view of the subject matter this organization is in dire financial position, even for a non-profit.

Their main assets are held within the museum they require for their operation, if we remove mission critical these assets from consideration then their total assets are around $4,000,000 with total liabilities of $11,000,000 and only $220,000 cash on hand. This organization is playing rather hard and fast with liquidity.

Further more the presidents entire family is on the payroll and the organization makes regular purchases from for profit companies owned and operated by board members. Including over $1,000,000 to Board Member Tim Dudley and new leaf publishing.

Although I have no doubt these transactions are within the letter of the law (considering the hefty amount of money they spend on legal consulting even though they also pay an in house lawyer) it always gives me pause when I see the personal enrichment of those responsible for the stewardship of public funds. Including Ken Ham doubling his compensation from $80,000 to $170,000 over the course of one year.

AIG Officer Compensation: $586,000 (5 officers)

Ham family Compensation: $322,000

And all of this while revenue at the organization dropped 13%"

.................................................

"Whatever your position on the creation/evolution debate, I believe that AIG is entirely sincere in their beliefs. They are ultimately promoting the authority of the Bible, and I find that to be a noble cause. A lot of people do not believe in mixing science with faith, but I believe that the scientists at AIG are doing what we are told to do in Romans 12: they are using the abilities that God gave them in service to Him. The focus of AIG is on the book of Genesis, and particularly the creation account, but they are an apologetics ministry that deals with many issues concerning the Bible. When I have a question concerning scripture, I usually check the AIG website first for the answer. However, I devote a lot of time to study, and I always look at both sides of an issue. Thus far, I have not been impressed with the opponents of AIG.

I receive mail and email from AIG, but it is not overwhelming as with other charities; most of what I receive is newsletters that I registered to get.

I judge this organization based on what I see. Their scientists have the credentials, but those that I have seen display humility. At the Creation Museum, I was impressed that the scientists/speakers were so accessible. At the Stargazers Night event, Dr. Jason Lisle was willing to take as many questions as we wished to ask.

I donate to various charities often, but I have been most impressed by the personal interaction with AIG. Each time I have donated, I have received a hand-written thank-you note. One staff member even offered to pray for me, and then responded to my request with a hand-written note. Every staff member that I have dealt with has been entirely pleasant. In my view, AIG reflects Christian love and values."
 

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tas8831

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AIG, preying on the gullible. :oldthumbsup:

Answers In Genesis Inc - Volunteer, client and donor reviews and ratings on GreatNonprofits


"This organization has been life changing for our family. They are speaking truth and equipping the next generation. My family has visited the museum numerous times and we have heard Ken Ham speak on several occasions. We have been long time supporters as well. I'm very picky where I donate our money and I feel very confident that it is being used well here."

.....................................................

"Regardless of your personal view of the subject matter this organization is in dire financial position, even for a non-profit.

Their main assets are held within the museum they require for their operation, if we remove mission critical these assets from consideration then their total assets are around $4,000,000 with total liabilities of $11,000,000 and only $220,000 cash on hand. This organization is playing rather hard and fast with liquidity.

Further more the presidents entire family is on the payroll and the organization makes regular purchases from for profit companies owned and operated by board members. Including over $1,000,000 to Board Member Tim Dudley and new leaf publishing.

Although I have no doubt these transactions are within the letter of the law (considering the hefty amount of money they spend on legal consulting even though they also pay an in house lawyer) it always gives me pause when I see the personal enrichment of those responsible for the stewardship of public funds. Including Ken Ham doubling his compensation from $80,000 to $170,000 over the course of one year.

AIG Officer Compensation: $586,000 (5 officers)

Ham family Compensation: $322,000

And all of this while revenue at the organization dropped 13%"

.................................................

"Whatever your position on the creation/evolution debate, I believe that AIG is entirely sincere in their beliefs. They are ultimately promoting the authority of the Bible, and I find that to be a noble cause. A lot of people do not believe in mixing science with faith, but I believe that the scientists at AIG are doing what we are told to do in Romans 12: they are using the abilities that God gave them in service to Him. The focus of AIG is on the book of Genesis, and particularly the creation account, but they are an apologetics ministry that deals with many issues concerning the Bible. When I have a question concerning scripture, I usually check the AIG website first for the answer. However, I devote a lot of time to study, and I always look at both sides of an issue. Thus far, I have not been impressed with the opponents of AIG.

I receive mail and email from AIG, but it is not overwhelming as with other charities; most of what I receive is newsletters that I registered to get.

I judge this organization based on what I see. Their scientists have the credentials, but those that I have seen display humility. At the Creation Museum, I was impressed that the scientists/speakers were so accessible. At the Stargazers Night event, Dr. Jason Lisle was willing to take as many questions as we wished to ask.

I donate to various charities often, but I have been most impressed by the personal interaction with AIG. Each time I have donated, I have received a hand-written thank-you note. One staff member even offered to pray for me, and then responded to my request with a hand-written note. Every staff member that I have dealt with has been entirely pleasant. In my view, AIG reflects Christian love and values."

It seems to me that so much organized religion - especially evangelical Christianity - is little more than money-making scams.
 
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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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It seems to me that so much organized religion - especially evangelical Christianity - is little more than money-making scams.
Just out of curiosity, how much does a science textbook cost at the Harvard bookstore?

(One that doesn't have Pluto as our ninth planet?)

$350.00? $200.00? $175.00?

Does anyone know?
 
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HitchSlap

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Just out of curiosity, how much does a science textbook cost at the Harvard bookstore?

(One that doesn't have Pluto as our ninth planet?)

$350.00? $200.00? $175.00?

Does anyone know?
Yep. Sometimes more.
 
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tas8831

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Just out of curiosity, how much does a science textbook cost at the Harvard bookstore?

(One that doesn't have Pluto as our ninth planet?)

$350.00? $200.00? $175.00?

Does anyone know?

Textbooks cost a lot of money because they take years to write and many, many people contribute and actually provide a real, tangible service to those that actually want to learn.

Religion?

We have the sale of indulgences.

We have tax-free stocks and bonds and businesses.

We have books, tapes, commemorative plates and photos, etc. - all for sale on televangelist shows and websites. We have Joel Osteen.

Did you think you were making some kind of point? Or just trying to divert and distract?
 
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