Child molesters

[AudioArtist]

This thread was inspired by a post by an ex-child molester on another Christian forum, who claimed God had set him free from his past, and also said that there would be less repeat offenses if child molesters were given hope for change...

I had been thinking for a long time before his posts that genuinely repentant ex-child molesters should be treated differently and looked after and given hope just like any other sinners in the Church. Of course, I believe what they have done (or desired to do) is disgusting, and that it should be called what it is - SIN - but God did say He came to save all kinds of disgusting sinners from their sin, not just some.

I, like any other sane person, feel very sorry for children who have been molested, and angry at those that did the deed. However, what if you were a person struggling with an attraction to children? Do you think every one of these people choose to have that deranged attraction? I can't really see why anybody ever would consciously choose it, although I think there are cases where people became child-molesters gradually out of their own increasingly disturbing sexual activities . I'm also sure, however, that just as there are frustrated, hurting, homosexual or inappropriate content addicted Christians out there who are desperate for change, there are also a number of people who have attractions to children who want change. Their situation is even worse! Where can they go to get prayer and ministry to get the perverse spirits out, or to get the healing necessary to either be free completely of the attractions or to have them lessened to a controllable level? (although I'd personally only be satisfied with a ministry that had hope for a full recovery from those attractions...)

They really can't speak to anybody! And I don't believe that that is fair. It might seem fair to the world, it might satisfy our own carnal sense of justice and our emotive disgust at the thought of what they've done (or desire to do) to children, but it's NOT in line with the Gospel! The Gospel implores us to be vehicles of God's salvation and restoration to ALL sinners.

I'm not so naive that I believe all child molesters are unhappy with their "orientation". Many are monsters who prey on weak children without a single repentant thought, and others even lead a double life; they're satisfied by their wives but they get extra kicks out of ruthlessly ruining children's lives on the side to gratify themselves. However, I'm sure there are some out there that are horrified with their attractions, and are just desperate for someone to offer some way out of them.

As Spirit-filled believers (I'm sure there are some actual Gift-practicing charismatics left on here) how would you deal with a child molester who genuinely wanted freedom (or claimed to have already been set free) in your Church?

 

[Mark2010]

That's actually a very good point and a question that i don't have a trite answer to.

One of the things that bothers me about church and Christians in general is how they seem to pick and choose what sins are forgiveable and what are not. Sex offenders, of almost any type, are treated worse than murderers in many cases. Now, please understand, I'm not CONDONING the actions of anyone. But, if you say you believe in repentance and forgiveness, then act like it. The attitudes and actions of those professing to be Christian may well be the biggest turnoff to those considering accepting Christ and trying a new way of life. It's the "no one would ever accept me, so why bother trying" syndrome.

Yes, certain precautions can and should be taken. But if there is no place for certain people, why bother speaking of repentance in the first place?

 

[Tenebrae]

I work in mental health, and in the last 9 months, I've seen profound change in people that have been the same way for 20-30 years. I think what makes the difference is that as a social worker, I have to actively carry the hope for my clients at times when people have given up on them.....

I think one of the biggest problems with the way sex offenders are treated at the moment is that they proclaim an awareness of the impact of their offending without ever dealing with the reasons that lead to them offending in the first place. And because they have "said sorry" the pyschologists, and the social workers who are working with them, tick the boxes and carry onto the next offender and the orginal offender is just as dangerous as when he/she went into prison.

I am all for advocating forgiveness for any one. However from a clinical point of view, I'd be much more interested in working with them to deal with the underlying reasons that lead to them offending in the first place


If you ever get a chance, read "Into the Darklands" by a guy called Nigel Latta. He is a forensic pyschologist who worked with sex offenders for many years. He was someone who advocated working with the offenders to deal with the reasons why they offended in the first place.

 

[bluemarkus]

i believe it is not for nought that mo´s get a special place in every jail. the inmates might not abide by all laws of the country, but most of them still have their heart at the right place.i believe that western society teems with lies, cheap excuses and weakness.

i believe mo´s should not be treated with fluffy psychology. most of them are very smart when it comes to talking. i just think its one of the worst crimes a human can commit.

i think we should give every human a chance, or 2 or 3 but not a hundred.

 

[Alpine]

I've noticed that sexual offenders are now thought of worse than murderers. Maybe I'm too easy going, but I'm willing to give people second chances (as long as the crime wasn't too horribly severe)

 

[GodsTwo]

Need to show some compassion for even child molesters. Why? because child molesters are made, not born.

For a child, every thing they see, hear and experience adds programming to their brains. What they go through shapes their adult futures.

Child molesters don't just get up one morning and say: "I think I want to be a child molester". They are made that way through abuse, weather it be mental, physical or sexual.

These people have had their brains programmed with obsessions that they have no control over. The mental health community has not yet figured out how to successfully de-program the human brain.

So, should they be punished, and sometimes isolated from society? Yes Should they be hated and loathed? No - For us to possess the true Christian Spirit, we need to have the compassion and mercy of God.

 

[lismore]

Sometimes the more obvious sins are the more harshly judged by people.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Of course, I believe what they have done (or desired to do) is disgusting, and that it should be called what it is - SIN - but God did say He came to save all kinds of disgusting sinners from their sin, not just some.

I, like any other sane person, feel very sorry for children who have been molested, and angry at those that did the deed. However, what if you were a person struggling with an attraction to children? Do you think every one of these people choose to have that deranged attraction? I can't really see why anybody ever would consciously choose it, although I think there are cases where people became child-molesters gradually out of their own increasingly disturbing sexual activities . I'm also sure, however, that just as there are frustrated, hurting, homosexual or inappropriate content addicted Christians out there who are desperate for change, there are also a number of people who have attractions to children who want change. Their situation is even worse! Where can they go to get prayer and ministry to get the perverse spirits out, or to get the healing necessary to either be free completely of the attractions or to have them lessened to a controllable level? (although I'd personally only be satisfied with a ministry that had hope for a full recovery from those attractions...)

They really can't speak to anybody! And I don't believe that that is fair. It might seem fair to the world, it might satisfy our own carnal sense of justice and our emotive disgust at the thought of what they've done (or desire to do) to children, but it's NOT in line with the Gospel! The Gospel implores us to be vehicles of God's salvation and restoration to ALL sinners...

Statistically speaking, the majority of abusers (sexual or otherwise) had once been abuse victims themselves. More often than not, a child molester will be nothing more than someone who got molested themselves at some point, then committed the dubious crime of having enough birthdays to where society no longer gave a crap about them as individuals anymore. If they don't get whatever healing might be out there for those experiences (mind you here Moriah bes completely speculating as it has absolutely no clue what might or might not be "out there" to sort such things out in terms of therapy, ministry or whatever) then at some point they will probably "turn". That doesn't mean the wounded victim ceases to exist. It just means they cross a line at some point where healthy normal sane folk no longer care that they have no more power to stop the "change" (the whirlwind reaped) than they had to stop the abuse (the wind sown).

And of course where bes they supposed to go to get "help" when the FIRST thing anyone wants to do should they verbalize their sickness bes to shun them, condemn them, threaten them, or lock them up as predators to keep them away from others? So it bes no wonder they don't get any help because who would they trust to tell something like that to? It bes like trying to tell someone you bes wrestling with the desire to murder and afraid you will lose the battle to restrain yourself. Shrinks say "oh you bes homicidal, into the lockup with you, villian!" Yeah, real helpful. When people think they will be either punished or disbelieved when they disclose their fears, terrors, and most painful and embarrassing struggles, then they stop talking and start hiding. And that self-isolation bes where the REAL danger lies, both for those overwhelmed by these demons and for those who might end up being their victims.

Of course one thing anyone whats got that kind of compulsion going on needs to be ready for even if they do find loving, compassionate fellowship and help from others, would be that those others -- that church or whatever -- would naturally want to watch them and not permit them to be alone with children. Which would be a good thing because it not only keeps the children safe but it would keep the repentant molester or potential molester safe from himself. He would not have to have the stress of worrying about restraining any sick desires trying to take him over because others would be watching over him in that regard. Same kind of principle used to operate in good psychiatric inpatient care (when such things used to exist) with "suicide watch" -- since the person cannot control their overwhelming desire to harm themselves, others control it for them during crisis times by watching over them to stop them. If the repentant molester or potential molester truly enjoys the company of children in the normal "innocent" way then he can enjoy that just as well with other adults present to monitor the situation to keep both the children safe and the repentant offender safe from himself.

That would be a win-win solution for everyone, it would think -- though again it does not have any professional expertise in this type of thing so this just bes its opinions.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Little sidetrack here ...

These people have had their brains programmed with obsessions that they have no control over. The mental health community has not yet figured out how to successfully de-program the human brain.

GodsTwo, seriously? For real? Because it thought they had methods -- like when the whole "cult" thing bes a big deal back in the 70s and 80s we used to hear stories allatimes about teens and young adults getting "brainwashed" into cults and then the parents would pay a deprogrammer to go kidnap them back and deprogram them. But you say they have not yet figured out how to do this? :o Wow.

 

[MuidSaoirse]

This thread was inspired by a post by an ex-child molester on another Christian forum, who claimed God had set him free from his past, and also said that there would be less repeat offenses if child molesters were given hope for change...

I had been thinking for a long time before his posts that genuinely repentant ex-child molesters should be treated differently and looked after and given hope just like any other sinners in the Church. Of course, I believe what they have done (or desired to do) is disgusting, and that it should be called what it is - SIN - but God did say He came to save all kinds of disgusting sinners from their sin, not just some.

I, like any other sane person, feel very sorry for children who have been molested, and angry at those that did the deed. However, what if you were a person struggling with an attraction to children? Do you think every one of these people choose to have that deranged attraction? I can't really see why anybody ever would consciously choose it, although I think there are cases where people became child-molesters gradually out of their own increasingly disturbing sexual activities . I'm also sure, however, that just as there are frustrated, hurting, homosexual or inappropriate content addicted Christians out there who are desperate for change, there are also a number of people who have attractions to children who want change. Their situation is even worse! Where can they go to get prayer and ministry to get the perverse spirits out, or to get the healing necessary to either be free completely of the attractions or to have them lessened to a controllable level? (although I'd personally only be satisfied with a ministry that had hope for a full recovery from those attractions...)

They really can't speak to anybody! And I don't believe that that is fair. It might seem fair to the world, it might satisfy our own carnal sense of justice and our emotive disgust at the thought of what they've done (or desire to do) to children, but it's NOT in line with the Gospel! The Gospel implores us to be vehicles of God's salvation and restoration to ALL sinners.

I'm not so naive that I believe all child molesters are unhappy with their "orientation". Many are monsters who prey on weak children without a single repentant thought, and others even lead a double life; they're satisfied by their wives but they get extra kicks out of ruthlessly ruining children's lives on the side to gratify themselves. However, I'm sure there are some out there that are horrified with their attractions, and are just desperate for someone to offer some way out of them.

As Spirit-filled believers (I'm sure there are some actual Gift-practicing charismatics left on here) how would you deal with a child molester who genuinely wanted freedom (or claimed to have already been set free) in your Church?

This was a well presented post which calls up and confronts as to how we would or do treat pedophiles. As a Christian it be with a conscious effort I acknowledge Christ died once for all. It be with a lingering rage I acknowledge sin is sin is sin. It be with some guilt I acknowledge a sense of satisfaction that in the jails the child molesters will get owned and the prison officers will turn a blind eye.
It be with experiential knowledge as a child recipient of abuse I state abuse of this kind should always be viewed as murder.

For in the act of pedophilia a child's body, mind and spirit are raped and something dies forever. Healing is a forever process and in adulthood the scars linger and can be triggered.

Those who have survived abuse do not benefit nor need to hear or see kneejerk, emotive responses to the subject. God knows we have have enough of our own that occur through the years.

My thoughts are that a child molestor is RECIDIVIST hence their acts have NEGATED the right to be ever be trusted around children again.
NB We are not talking about addiction issues or promiscuity. We are talking about murdering the essence of a child.
We should never give license to a child molester to have access to kids solely because we believe they have healed.
The child molester label on a rational level automatically defies what Christ states... that His blood and His grace are sufficient.

On a spiritual level believers in Christ know that all things are possible in Christ - that being healing and wholeness against all odds.

IT DOES NOT HOWEVER MEAN WE EVER HAVE TO TRUST A PERSON WITH A HISTORY OF CHILD SEX ABUSE AROUND KIDS ever again.

Whilst i agree and am spiritually convicted a pedophile is entitled to the same forgiveness as all of us in Christ, i do not see this as license to put kids at risk.

God in my life has shown me that when the hate in me surges up He has no pecking order of sins... Forgiveness but with wisdom is the right approach i believe towards child sex offenders.

As has been highlighted the child sex offenders are often highly educated, evil clever, articulate and in trust positions.

The stereotypical number that portray sex offenders as recipients of abuse from a lower socio economic setting and the cycle continues is not always the case at all.

My favorite song re this topic is Fire fi de Vatican.
Here's a line or two from it:
Fire for the Vatican
Who say?
Revelations say
now i think you know what happened to me as a kid...ahaha

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

MuidSaoirse -- Inasmuch as you disclose yourself to have so suffered, then may God bless and keep you, and may you never wake to find that same seed growing inside you as a result.

 

[MuidSaoirse]

MuidSaoirse -- Inasmuch as you disclose yourself to have so suffered, then may God bless and keep you, and may you never wake to find that same seed growing inside you as a result.

Disclosure is not the biggie... the world is full of adults who have experienced sexual abuse as kids. I rarely ID about it all but it is important at times to spell out how a recipient of abuse is impacted.
Actually i am rather tired of some who were abused clinging to their wounds and getting mileage via attention and sympathy.
For a victim to heal there has to be a healthy anger not a morbid brokenness.
As to your comment 'may you not wake to find that same seed growing in you as a result' ='s
sexual perversion IS a choice.
When we relegate child sex offenders as hapless, cycle of abuse individuals etcera we negate their self responsibility for what they perpetrate.
Made me flinch your comment - is it not enough one has been abused and then the suggestion one may become one. Nah i reject that. To drown in filth and engage in murder of children both psychologically, spiritually and physically is a CHOICE.

 

[MuidSaoirse]

MuidSaoirse -- Inasmuch as you disclose yourself to have so suffered, then may God bless and keep you, and may you never wake to find that same seed growing inside you as a result.

An aside:
your comment and your profile indicate to me you may have issues perhaps not in the sexual realm in as much as spiritual/psychological sigh...
I am aware perpetrators, victims and those wrestling with sexual sins are attracted to topics like this... Not for me to spotlight your issues but your comment spoke volumes...

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

whatever, not interested in discussing itself personally. apologies for any offense its comment caused you. how about may you never wake to find your "choices" removed from you then.
can we get back to the OP please.

 

[SharonL]

Well this is a hard one for me - I never want to see an offender go to Hell - but I cannot explain my feelings if I were to be around one.

I have two children sexually abused in every way possible - their ages were - girl age 9 - boy age 7 - 2 of 13 children abused - youngest 2 years old - oldest 13.

Priest tried to make us not press charges because he was a church goer - out of 13 children we were the only one willing to press charges - wife came begging and crying to not press charges -

7 year old boy started studdering immediately as soon as it was found out. He is 54 and studders so badly today you can hardly understand him. 9 year old girl is now 57 and a shell of a person - a beautiful, talanted, highly educated - but a shell.

I know there are no levels of sin as far as forgiveness goes - but to see 13 children's lives ruined puts it in a category of its own.

On top of all this - the stipulation we had was that we would delay bringing charges until he had treatment - provided he was never allowed on that street again - he had 3 months of treatment - all the kids were playing in the front - they allowed him to come back - he can out and shot himself in the head - now the children had to deal with that.

Many years of treatment, thearpy, counseling - the damage is still there.

As I said, I don't want to see anyone go to Hell - but to treat someone such as this as if nothing happened is something that I am not big enough to do. I don't hate, I have no unforgiveness - but had he lived - I could not treat him as if nothing happened.

 

[msbojingles]

For a victim to heal there has to be a healthy anger not a morbid brokenness.

From what I've personally found in the church, there is forgiveness for pedophiles, however, for the victims, there is no "processing" allowed. Any processing IS seen as "self-pity" or "clinging to wounds" when it is not. When the victim voices any of these problems, they are told, "you need to forgive" (which is true, but not helpful) or "you're just blaming others for your problems" (when the victim is really reaping what was sowed into their life, often times when trying NOT to "blame" or whatever), or my favorite, "we've ALL been abused. ALL of us." As though being slapped or called "stupid" is the same as enduring years of sadistic sexual abuse, and many times even being blamed for the abuse.

Yep, I've seen plenty of forgiveness for the abusers, and little forgiveness for the victim who finds themselves struggling to forgive, even though they've tried time and again, or the victim who is pressed by the abuser and has an outburst of rage, and tries to control it. No, the victims repeatedly get told to "do" something that doesn't even come close to dealing with the root, but rather a fruit of something they never even asked for!

I'm all for forgiving the abuser, and rehabilitating them and like another poster said - getting to the ROOT. If the root isn't dealt with, the fruits are just going to keep coming on, but just pointing at someone and saying "bad fruit!" doesn't fix anything. That's the difference between the Letter and the Spirit. (The letter kills but the Spirit gives life)

The Letter of the Law says, "Houston, we have a problem." The Spirit says, "I'm going to do a work to change the problem from the inside out" (as opposed to the other way around).

This is true for both the abuser and the victim.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

From what I've personally found in the church, there is forgiveness for pedophiles, however, for the victims, there is no "processing" allowed. Any processing IS seen as "self-pity" or "clinging to wounds" when it is not. When the victim voices any of these problems, they are told, "you need to forgive" (which is true, but not helpful) or "you're just blaming others for your problems" (when the victim is really reaping what was sowed into their life, often times when trying NOT to "blame" or whatever), or my favorite, "we've ALL been abused. ALL of us." As though being slapped or called "stupid" is the same as enduring years of sadistic sexual abuse, and many times even being blamed for the abuse.

Yep, I've seen plenty of forgiveness for the abusers, and little forgiveness for the victim who finds themselves struggling to forgive, even though they've tried time and again, or the victim who is pressed by the abuser and has an outburst of rage, and tries to control it. No, the victims repeatedly get told to "do" something that doesn't even come close to dealing with the root, but rather a fruit of something they never even asked for!

AMEN. God BLESS you Mrs.Bojingles for speaking the truth on this. Freaking SICK of all that "lets shut everyone up who makes us uncomfortable by accusing them of self-pity" crap. Time to shut THAT crap up INSTEAD.

 

[msbojingles]

AMEN. God BLESS you Mrs.Bojingles for speaking the truth on this. Freaking SICK of all that "lets shut everyone up who makes us uncomfortable by accusing them of self-pity" crap. Time to shut THAT crap up INSTEAD.

:o

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

:o

Sorry hon, please let Moriah explain.
You said that when victims need to process their pain, they get shut down by people accusing them of attention-seeking, having self-pity parties, whatever.

Any processing IS seen as "self-pity" or "clinging to wounds" when it is not.

Moriah agrees, yes this happens and yes, this bes wrong. And seeing this done to hurting people makes daimonizomai ANGRY.

Instead of these heartless folks shutting up victims by these accusations ... how about we shut up those lying false mean accusations themselves for a change.

Make sense now? Sorry if it upset you. Sometimes its thoughts dont come out as clear as it tries to make them.

 

[Faulty]

As Spirit-filled believers (I'm sure there are some actual Gift-practicing charismatics left on here) how would you deal with a child molester who genuinely wanted freedom (or claimed to have already been set free) in your Church?

Anyone who is honest with themselves knows they have certain points of weakness that the enemy will always try to exploit. I have areas in my life that if I don't keep a close guard on my life, I'll fall back into sin is some very particular areas. Why? Because the old man isn't completely dead yet.

That saying, you should always help brothers who are truly repentent in their areas of weakness, but we must also realize they occasionally wil fall in sin like everyone does from time to time, and it isn't right to put them in a position where their weaknesses are tempted. I would never put a beer in front of a man who has turned from a life of alcoholism and become his tempter in a particular area of weakness. Likewise, I would never have my children around a former child molester, or place them in a position of authority over my or any other kids because then I become the tempter, and severe consequences might result from them giving in to the sin I placed before them.