CF Vision

[MariaRegina]

By CF's definition, it's a gathering of all believers, as anyone who say's they're a Christian is a Christian, regardless of what they believe.

Even in a church parish, people are allowed to have different opinions as long as they are respectful and do not teach what is considered to be heretical by the hierarchy or church board.

In that respect, CF congregational forums are almost like church.

I think the key is to post the truth in love as we see it. Teaching is a different matter.
We are to be kind and patient as that is love.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It isn't any moderator in particular it's these rules & regulations
that keep being added to and get more restrictive.
Some of my friends left becuz they got warnings for posting verses.

I actually got an infraction once, just for sharing the Gospel with another poster.

I've just stopped posting for the most part at this point.

I'm about to. I'm so disgusted with this place and it's contempt for sound doctrine that I'm seriously considering just leaving and making WretchedRadio my only message board.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Even in a church parish, people are allowed to have different opinions as long as they are respectful and do not teach what is considered to be heretical by the hierarchy or church board.

Every church I know will allow members to correct another member who is found to be wallowing in heresy.

We are to be kind and patient as that is love.

Yeah, and the leadership of CF is going to love people right into Hell by reassuring them that they're Christians and preventing those of us who can see that they're not from presenting the Gospel to them.

 

[Nadiine]

I'm not going to continue on this thread due to these
rules - just a heads up to any new posters here....
you may find a nice surprise PM waiting for you.
I gave up on changing this forum, so we'll let the
numbers & member participation speak for itself
since our collective complaints went nowhere
and continue to do so.

 

[BelindaP]

It isn't any moderator in particular it's these rules & regulations
that keep being added to and get more restrictive.
Some of my friends left becuz they got warnings for posting verses.

I've just stopped posting for the most part at this point.
Once they overenforce that "dissruption" rule, it's so vague, it
can be ANY disagreement you give about anything and it's
viewed that way if they want to pass you a warning for
whatever reason.

People are so gunshy they aren't posting near as much...
(if they aren't on ban leaves)
It's gotten sterile and lifeless imo and I lost alot of interest
anymore.

I have to agree with Nadiine here. I got one disruption warning for calling somebody 'dearie' and another for posting that I was unsubscribing from a thread. The RT told me warnings weren't appealable, so tough noogies. Then, when I appealed the ban, they closed the appeal thread with no reason given. I had to serve out a ban for warnings I don't understand.

ETA: And I'm sure I'll get warned or infracted for this post, cuz we're supposed to take it to the Complaint Box. But, my experience tells me that does no good either. My only logical option is to take it to the owner. But, if I disappear for a month, you'll know where I went.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Double Post

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

i know this has been a long time coming, and i apologize for that. i wanted to communicate with you all first and for you all to gain clarity before sharing with the rest of the board.

before i get into it, i just want to ask you all to try and read this as from Christ's perspective. what i mean by that is to try and put our own biases aside. the below statement can be taken from a "liberal" standpoint in an anything goes attitude. it can also be taken "conservativly" in a walk on eggshells around everyone. it is not meant for either extreme.

as i have been praying over the last few weeks, this was the only thing that kept coming back to me.

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matt 22:36-40


As pertaining to Christ:
i try to think of CF as church, and i thought of the character of Christ and what he would want his people to be like. i want CF to be a place where Christians have a place to discuss the things of Christ...even amongst all the different denominations out there. it would be a place where all who claim to have a personal relationship with Christ can come to talk about Him and worship Him.

As pertaining to Life:
i would want people to develop deep relationships with each other and be able to walk with each other both in the bright and dark times of life...share in both bliss and sorrow...joy and heartache....in essence live life and grow together

As pertaining to those that dont know Christ:
i want those that are not believers to be able to interact amicably with believers on the board. i would hope that the believers on CF would welcome non-believers with open loving arms and for the believers to show them the light of Christ in their interactions with them in speech and attitude.

however, let's say CF was a ford mustang forum. if someone really loved chevy camaros, and started to say how camaros were better than ford and fords suck and constantly caused trouble with other members, they are not here to be friends nor are they here to find out more about ford mustangs...hence they would no longer be welcome on the boards. i think you all get the picture.

may it never be said that someone, whether christian or not, did not find gracious love here on CF at some point.

please post questions, and i will try to answer them to the best of my ability.

Some of MY personal thoughts....


1. Of course, all Christians are embracing of The Great Commandment and Great Commission. As are all Christian websites. I think what we need to clearly KNOW is: What is the vision/purpose/mission of THIS site?


2. There is a plethora of Christian websites out there that are either denominational/faith community oriented (Lutheran or Methodist or Catholic or whatever) OR are generic "whatever" sites. The latter refers to those that are fundamentally relativistic or minimalistic in nature, the "won't you be my neighbor" Mr. Rogerisms that appeal to relativists and minimalists (and occasionally liberals). There are a LOT of those out there - some of them very good. There's no need to be yet another example of such. I admit, since I'm not a relativist or minimalist (or even a Mr. Rogerist, lol), I avoid those sites like the plague. I think they do more harm than good.



3. IMHO, what made CF into the largest Christian website on the net was a DIFFERENT focus. Erwin seemed to desire to build an ECUMENICAL, interdenominational site where a DIVERGENT community of Christians would come TOGETHER for the purposes of mutual fellowship, support and discussion. OPEN, honest, real discussion - about issues we share and issues where we don't. Coming here was a very broad, diverse group of informed, articulate, intelligent posters. Many of us THRIVED in this enviroment - learning and growing, both in faith and in mutual understanding. But I admit, it could be challenging. Sometimes long held assumptions got challenged! More than a few of us changed our minds about some things! In my 21 years, I have twice changed my fundamental faith community affiliation: from rather liberal mainstream Protestant (that of my father - a pastor), to Catholic to Lutheran. I may not be done yet! I HOPE and PRAY I never stop learning and growing, that I never stop being open to things. CF was (is?) a great place for that. As such, it was/is very rare! IMHO, it's what made this site the largest and most talk about site on the internet.


4. I've been a part (WAY too much so) of two Christian websites that died. In both cases, the reason was the same. They lost their sense of purpose/mission and became focused on self and the preservation and promotion of self. IMHO, it happens to some congregations, too. I hope it hasn't/doesn't happen here. I LOVE this site.


5. For several years, I was very active in BOTH a Protestant and Catholic parish - and in those two communities, with MANY friends in each. I learned - first hand - that misunderstandings ABOUND (about equally on all "sides"), and that these tend to continue because each listens only to it's own side, assuming it knows the other better than the other does. CF was one of the very, precious FEW opportunities we had to come together - face to face - with that other. And talk. Ask. Share. Openly, honestly, frankly. Do we end up agreeing? Hardly ever! Do we leave advancing mutual understanding, destroying false concepts? Often. Some of us leave changed and with renewed and expanded respect.


6. It's been nearly 2 1/2 years since I was on staff here and at least partly "in the loop" about the inner working and struggles of CF. I left for awhile and came back about a year ago - just as a lowly poster, lol. Erwin built this site up until it was just too big for him (and life called him elsewhere). As he moved away, the "void" got filled with those with different agendas and the WAR took over. Some wanted to protect their point of view, some wanted to turn CF into an apologetics site, and still others wanted to keep the site open and real. It took on a Protestant vs. Catholic bent. And it was not good. Many became victims of the war. The place turned nasty. Many left (and not all voluntarily). Staff (especially upper) became polerized and demoralized amid a flurry of firings and re-suffeling and a plethora of constant changes of protocol and staff and rules as the "front" seemed to move one way or the other. Many of us just wanted CF to return to a place of open, honest real discussions, a place of bridges not walls. Many of us were sent packing along with those at the front. On both sides. There was an attempt at a truce - with a call for balance and fairness but let's just say it didn't go well. Paul, MANY here have scars and wounds that are still raw. MANY websites are populated with former CF posters and staffers, victims of this time.


7. In some ways, I think CF is still trying to rebuild from that, still looking for the answer to the question of this thread: What are we doing here? Can we? Does it matter? Will CF become a place of meaningless games and animals and chatter; entirely moot? Will it TRY to become yet another church of relativism, minimalism and Mr. Rogerism in spite of other sites already doing this better than CF ever will? Or can we rebuild the largest, most popular, most important Christian website on the net? One dedicated to open, honest, real discussion in an atmoshere of love and respect? I don't know. I honestly don't know. But I hope. And I pray. Every day.


Thank you for reading my thoughts.


Pax


- Josiah


.

 

[Pauler]

thank you so much for your honesty and candor without having that "edge" of irritation. it is really good to hear from you californajosiah

Some of MY personal thoughts....


1. Of course, all Christians are embracing of The Great Commandment and Great Commission. As are all Christian websites. I think what we need to clearly KNOW is: What is the vision/purpose/mission of THIS site?


2. There is a plethora of Christian websites out there that are either denominational/faith community oriented (Lutheran or Methodist or Catholic or whatever) OR are generic "whatever" sites. The latter refers to those that are fundamentally relativistic or minimalistic in nature, the "won't you be my neighbor" Mr. Rogerisms that appeal to relativists and minimalists (and occasionally liberals). There are a LOT of those out there - some of them very good. There's no need to be yet another example of such. I admit, since I'm not a relativist or minimalist (or even a Mr. Rogerist, lol), I avoid those sites like the plague. I think they do more harm than good.



3. IMHO, what made CF into the largest Christian website on the net was a DIFFERENT focus. Erwin seemed to desire to build an ECUMENICAL, interdenominational site where a DIVERGENT community of Christians would come TOGETHER for the purposes of mutual fellowship, support and discussion. OPEN, honest, real discussion - about issues we share and issues where we don't. Coming here was a very broad, diverse group of informed, articulate, intelligent posters. Many of us THRIVED in this enviroment - learning and growing, both in faith and in mutual understanding. But I admit, it could be challenging. Sometimes long held assumptions got challenged! More than a few of us changed our minds about some things! In my 21 years, I have twice changed my fundamental faith community affiliation: from rather liberal mainstream Protestant (that of my father - a pastor), to Catholic to Lutheran. I may not be done yet! I HOPE and PRAY I never stop learning and growing, that I never stop being open to things. CF was (is?) a great place for that. As such, it was/is very rare! IMHO, it's what made this site the largest and most talk about site on the internet.

in my thoughts, the reason why this specific direction rung so true is b/c it is the ultimate calling for a believer. i steered away from a vision statement about a place for all faiths is that there is so much more going on at CF than that kind of discussion. ecumenical dialog is great, but in that dialog, if there isn't a heart of love it is worth nothing. i am not talking about a mr. rogerism (i laughed at that one) kind of love your neighbor. i dont think Christ called to believers to that kind of love. i am talking about the kind of love that has difficult conversation and yet perseveres through prayer for that person should they choose to walk away from the faith. i am talking about the kind of love that can, for example, have hard denominational talks and yet approach them in humility.

4. I've been a part (WAY too much so) of two Christian websites that died. In both cases, the reason was the same. They lost their sense of purpose/mission and became focused on self and the preservation and promotion of self. IMHO, it happens to some congregations, too. I hope it hasn't/doesn't happen here. I LOVE this site.


5. For several years, I was very active in BOTH a Protestant and Catholic parish - and in those two communities, with MANY friends in each. I learned - first hand - that misunderstandings ABOUND (about equally on all "sides"), and that these tend to continue because each listens only to it's own side, assuming it knows the other better than the other does. CF was one of the very, precious FEW opportunities we had to come together - face to face - with that other. And talk. Ask. Share. Openly, honestly, frankly. Do we end up agreeing? Hardly ever! Do we leave advancing mutual understanding, destroying false concepts? Often. Some of us leave changed and with renewed and expanded respect.

6. It's been nearly 2 1/2 years since I was on staff here and at least partly "in the loop" about the inner working and struggles of CF. I left for awhile and came back about a year ago - just as a lowly poster, lol. Erwin built this site up until it was just too big for him (and life called him elsewhere). As he moved away, the "void" got filled with those with different agendas and the WAR took over. Some wanted to protect their point of view, others to turn CF into an apologetics site, and still others simply wanted to keep the site open and real. It DID take on a Protestant vs. Catholic bent. And it was not good. Many became victims of the war. The place turned nasty. Many left (and not all voluntarily). Staff (especially upper) became polerized and demoralized amid a flurry of firings and re-suffeling and a plethora of constant changes of protocol and staff and rules as the "front" seemed to move one way or the other. Many of us just wanted CF to return to a place of open, honest real discussions, a place of bridges not walls. Many of us were sent packing along with those at the front. On both sides. There was an attempt at a truce - with a call for balance and fairness but let's just say it didn't go well. Paul, MANY here have scars and wounds that are still raw. MANY websites are populated with former CF posters and staffers, victims of this time.

i really hope that the humble face to face dialog continues...that is a wonderful thing that i support whole-heartedly. perhaps the call to love is a call to the end of the war. i think you said it beautifully "a place of open, honest real discussions, a place of bridges not walls". the call to love will perhaps help to heal those wounded and victimized.

7. In some ways, I think CF is still trying to rebuild from that, still looking for the answer to the question of this thread: What are we doing here? Can we? Does it matter? Will CF become a place of meaningless games and animals and chatter; entirely moot? Will it TRY to become yet another church of relativism, minimalism and Mr. Rogerism in spite of other sites already doing this better than CF ever will? Or can we rebuild the largest, most popular, most important Christian website on the net? One dedicated to open, honest, real discussion in an atmoshere of love and respect? I don't know. I honestly don't know. But I hope. And I pray. Every day.


Thank you for reading my thoughts.


Pax


- Josiah


.

i sure hope CF can do it...actually, i know it can. the vision statement is aimed to do exactly that...change the atmosphere that envelops everything that CF does. if that atmosphere changes...we are all headed in the right direction.

 

[drstevej]

Josiah, I appreciate you my brother. It has been great reading your posts over the past 4 years. Appreciate your heart and insight.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

thank you so much for your honesty and candor without having that "edge" of irritation. it is really good to hear from you californajosiah



in my thoughts, the reason why this specific direction rung so true is b/c it is the ultimate calling for a believer. i steered away from a vision statement about a place for all faiths is that there is so much more going on at CF than that kind of discussion. ecumenical dialog is great, but in that dialog, if there isn't a heart of love it is worth nothing. i am not talking about a mr. rogerism (i laughed at that one) kind of love your neighbor. i dont think Christ called to believers to that kind of love. i am talking about the kind of love that has difficult conversation and yet perseveres through prayer for that person should they choose to walk away from the faith. i am talking about the kind of love that can, for example, have hard denominational talks and yet approach them in humility.



i really hope that the humble face to face dialog continues...that is a wonderful thing that i support whole-heartedly. perhaps the call to love is a call to the end of the war. i think you said it beautifully "a place of open, honest real discussions, a place of bridges not walls". the call to love will perhaps help to heal those wounded and victimized.




i sure hope CF can do it...actually, i know it can. the vision statement is aimed to do exactly that...change the atmosphere that envelops everything that CF does. if that atmosphere changes...we are all headed in the right direction.

I am more positive about CF now than at any time before. Including when I was working hard on Staff.

You are in my daily prayers. As has been CF for nearly 4 years.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

- Josiah




.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

thank you so much for your honesty and candor without having that "edge" of irritation. it is really good to hear from you californajosiah

CJ is a person I really enjoy reading, even when I disagree with him! I wish there were more people like that around.

in my thoughts, the reason why this specific direction rung so true is b/c it is the ultimate calling for a believer. i steered away from a vision statement about a place for all faiths is that there is so much more going on at CF than that kind of discussion. ecumenical dialog is great, but in that dialog, if there isn't a heart of love it is worth nothing. i am not talking about a mr. rogerism (i laughed at that one) kind of love your neighbor. i dont think Christ called to believers to that kind of love. i am talking about the kind of love that has difficult conversation and yet perseveres through prayer for that person should they choose to walk away from the faith. i am talking about the kind of love that can, for example, have hard denominational talks and yet approach them in humility.

I don't think there are enough people in the world that understand this type of love.

i really hope that the humble face to face dialog continues...that is a wonderful thing that i support whole-heartedly. perhaps the call to love is a call to the end of the war. i think you said it beautifully "a place of open, honest real discussions, a place of bridges not walls". the call to love will perhaps help to heal those wounded and victimized.

Using love as the backbone of our communication, nothing should be impossible for us. It sounds like a cliche, but even the harshest rebuke can be done lovingly.

i sure hope CF can do it...actually, i know it can. the vision statement is aimed to do exactly that...change the atmosphere that envelops everything that CF does. if that atmosphere changes...we are all headed in the right direction.

I've already seen evidence of change ... positive change. It's a good feeling, let me tell ya...

 

[wayseer]

I too commend you for your vision. I sense a change of direction of CF which I find healthy.

The time is coming, if it is not already here, where the iChurch will become the church of the future. I'm not necessarily advocating a 'replacement' theology here where traditional churches get bypassed, but I think there is a time when traditional churches will become just too expensive to maintain. Just a thought.

 

[Always in His Presence]

i know this has been a long time coming, and i apologize for that. i wanted to communicate with you all first and for you all to gain clarity before sharing with the rest of the board.

before i get into it, i just want to ask you all to try and read this as from Christ's perspective. what i mean by that is to try and put our own biases aside. the below statement can be taken from a "liberal" standpoint in an anything goes attitude. it can also be taken "conservativly" in a walk on eggshells around everyone. it is not meant for either extreme.

as i have been praying over the last few weeks, this was the only thing that kept coming back to me.

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matt 22:36-40


As pertaining to Christ:
i try to think of CF as church, and i thought of the character of Christ and what he would want his people to be like. i want CF to be a place where Christians have a place to discuss the things of Christ...even amongst all the different denominations out there. it would be a place where all who claim to have a personal relationship with Christ can come to talk about Him and worship Him.

As pertaining to Life:
i would want people to develop deep relationships with each other and be able to walk with each other both in the bright and dark times of life...share in both bliss and sorrow...joy and heartache....in essence live life and grow together

As pertaining to those that dont know Christ:
i want those that are not believers to be able to interact amicably with believers on the board. i would hope that the believers on CF would welcome non-believers with open loving arms and for the believers to show them the light of Christ in their interactions with them in speech and attitude.

however, let's say CF was a ford mustang forum. if someone really loved chevy camaros, and started to say how camaros were better than ford and fords suck and constantly caused trouble with other members, they are not here to be friends nor are they here to find out more about ford mustangs...hence they would no longer be welcome on the boards. i think you all get the picture.

may it never be said that someone, whether christian or not, did not find gracious love here on CF at some point.

please post questions, and i will try to answer them to the best of my ability.

THANK YOU!

God bless you in these efforts. It makes me want to re-join staff as a chaplain.

 

[Nadiine]

I too commend you for your vision. I sense a change of direction of CF which I find healthy.

The time is coming, if it is not already here, where the iChurch will become the church of the future. I'm not necessarily advocating a 'replacement' theology here where traditional churches get bypassed, but I think there is a time when traditional churches will become just too expensive to maintain. Just a thought.

what matters at any real church is that truth of God is proclaimed

the open support & promotion of the rejection of scripture as
God's word, public nudity, pornography, sexual sins, etc. are hardly anything I consider a church should be professing as truth.

The only direction taken should be towards a godly message.

The day any internet forum replaces the local church is a very
sad and dangerous day in my opinion.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

what matters at any real church is that truth of God is proclaimed

the open support & promotion of the rejection of scripture as
God's word, public nudity, pornography, sexual sins, etc. are hardly anything I consider a church should be professing as truth.

The only direction taken should be towards a godly message.

The day any internet forum replaces the local church is a very
sad and dangerous day in my opinion.

What about those many places in the world where believers risk death if they try and organize a regular church and the Internet is the only access they have to Christianity and fellow believers?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I am more positive about CF now than at any time before. Including when I was working hard on Staff.

You are in my daily prayers. As has been CF for nearly 4 years.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

- Josiah

I very much agree. Even the General Theology [or as some call it "General Heresy" board ] has been a lot more settled down and less provoking I think, and a lot of new members have joined on it.

I am still awaiting for Pauler and CF Management to finalize everything before I make any comments or opinions on it. So far, I am taking a positive view of it. God bless

 

[Nadiine]

What about those many places in the world where believers risk death if they try and organize a regular church and the Internet is the only access they have to Christianity and fellow believers?

I'm sorry but that still doesn't turn this into a 'church' and there are real churches that people can find online. This is a forum that promotes a broad spectrum of ecumenism with a generalized Christian definition where anyone can teach & believe nearly anything ....

What's important is gospel truth being delivered - and since unfortunately, very little can be said in this forum anymore, that's all I'm going to say about it.

But I don't think this should be turned into a debate thread, so I don't
feel comfortable going into further into it.

 

[Pauler]

The day any internet forum replaces the local church is a very
sad and dangerous day in my opinion.

i dont know that the internet will ever replace the face to face interaction, and i dont see CF as a replacement for church. i understand, of course, if there are special circumstances...but by in large...i believe in real life church.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

i dont know that the internet will ever replace the face to face interaction, and i dont see CF as a replacement for church. i understand, of course, if there are special circumstances...but by in large...i believe in real life church.

Hi Pauler. This is a bit off topic, but as per the notice I put up on the CF Chat board, my virus scanner picked up viruses/malware alerts twice earlier while I was on CF...I just can't remember which board it happened on.....Just kind of worried me a bit

 

[Norbert L]

I very much agree. Even the General Theology [or as some call it "General Heresy" board ] has been a lot more settled down and less provoking I think, and a lot of new members have joined on it.

Even with the most opposite of opinions, there are ways to put a point across and there are ways not to put a point across. It's somewhat like the example of a man after 30 years of marriage complimenting his wife.

Either he can say everytime he looks in her eyes he sees a beauty that is timeless or he could say everytime he looks in her eyes, her beauty is enough to stop a clock.

Not that everyone is equal at accomplishing that where even the best have off days. You know... where people even agree to disagree in civil manner, they too reach an understanding.