Certainty Jesus Returns No Later than 2023

[watchfulChristian]

And by the way--just in case you don't know--God can do whatever He wants!!!! He can make a new heaven and a new earth, complete with a new sun (isn't that part of a new heaven? HE MADE THEM ALL TO BEGIN WITH, REMEMBER?? You have a problem with a God who annihilates those He created in His image, but have no problem with Him torturing those same people, made in His image, forever and ever??!!! Now, how silly is that!!! Adam and Eve were barred from the Garden of Eden, "lest they eat of the tree of life, and live forever in sin"---If Adam and Eve had to have the tree of life to eat from to live forever, and I've asked this question before--just who is going to give the lost fruit from the tree of life so they can keep on living forever and being tortured?? God going to toss them our leftovers, or maybe you will be in charge of that---seems right up your alley. Good night!!

His word has a problem with your desire to annihilate souls, not realizing that which is made in God's image can never cease to exist. Can God's image cease to exist? Of course not. Absurd. This earth that will be burnt up is a one time deal. The new earth is on a new planet. There's lots to choose from, but how conspicuous that the one right next to earth is inhabitable and will warm up significantly as the sun keeps getting bigger and bigger. For me it would be torture to be in Hell for eternity, but to those who go to Hell it is what they want and they will feel right at home. It's like someone who has a bad condition they have gotten so use to they would rather keep smoking, for example, than to ever give it up. The tree of life typifies eternal life in Christ, that any who believe in Jesus receive that fruit of eternal life. Don't think eternal life is to live eternally for we already exist permanently made in God's image. Eternal life is eternal blessing and an ability to have a relationship to know God intimately. You have Calvinistic tendencies in your words, e.g. you said the fruit of the tree of life has to be irresitibly imposed on people, and before you said people need to be irresitibly saved. How wonderful in your fantasy world you get to share bunk beds with Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the worst rapists and psychopaths who ever lived. Sounds like Hell so you will be right at home as everyone gets saved in your universalism. How powerful your flesh is to concoct such an idea so contrary to the Scriptures where there is no rest day or night for eternity in Hell God has prepared for you.

 

[watchfulChristian]

It's amazing how self-righteous the flesh is to have the gall to change God's word from forever and ever to a long time till it is long enough. Crazy people. Just know that Christians have a conscience to accept God's word when it says plainly what it says. But you seek to change the times and the ways.

 

[Markusanthem]

Jesus was not cut off in the middle of the 70th week because that would overlap the 69th week. The weeks are consecutive.

No, the 70th week follows the 69th week, obviously. Jesus came after the 69th week, for the 70th week, where he confirmed the New Covenant with many of Israel for his 3 1/2 year ministry before he was cut off in the middle of that week of years.

There are only 42 months remaining, where the New Covenant is confirmed with many more of Israel, specifically the 144,000 who are sealed by God and protected during the 42 months.

The abomination is mentioned in the 70th week in Dan. 9.27.

No, it says:
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It's saying because of all of Israel's sins (abominations, not "the abomination of desolation"), Jesus/God will desolate Israel until the time of the end and what has been determined will be poured out on them.

This is the exact same thing that Jesus said in Matt 23:

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
...
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The abomination of desolation had nothing, at all, to do with the antichrist. It was the Romans destroying and desolating Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple - sent by God to do so.

The fulfillment of the abomination of desolation occurred in 70AD when God sent the Roman armies to destroy and desolate Israel until the time of the end.

The abomination of desolation has nothing to do with the 70th week and was fulfilled in 70AD.

There are only 42 months remaining of the 70th week.

The 2nd woe is 13 months (Rev. 9.15),

15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

The only way a person would get 13 months out of that verse is to add up the hour, day, month and year which is absolutely absurd.

The prince is the Antichrist, not Jesus for Jesus is not the prince of the Romans. How silly

.

The angel defined who the prince that shall come was:

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

There is no other person in Daniel 9:24-27, only "Messiah the Prince" who is "the prince that shall come" who would send an army to destroy and desolate Israel until the time of the end because of their abominations against God that Jesus himself described in Matt 23.

 

[Markusanthem]

It's amazing how self-righteous the flesh is to have the gall to change God's word from forever and ever to a long time till it is long enough. Crazy people. Just know that Christians have a conscience to accept God's word when it says plainly what it says. But you seek to change the times and the ways.

Oh, you mean by declaring such unscriptural falsehoods as "the first 42 months are for the earth and the last 42 months are for people" or "the 2nd woe is 13 months long" or "the abomination of desolation is the antichrist".

None of that is found in the Bible and there's no reason to believe it.

 

[mmksparbud]

It's amazing how self-righteous the flesh is to have the gall to change God's word from forever and ever to a long time till it is long enough. Crazy people. Just know that Christians have a conscience to accept God's word when it says plainly what it says. But you seek to change the times and the ways.

Like 1 Ti 6:15-16--Which in his times he shall show , who is the blessed and only Potentate,the King of King and Lord of Lords:WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY.." You might try reading John 3:16--For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not PERISH, but have EVERLASTING LIFE." Pretty plain to me.
Jude 1:7--Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication,and going after strange flesh, ARE SET FORTH FOR AN EXAMPLE, SUFFERING THE VENGENCE OF ETERNAL FIRE."----Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning?? It says everlasting fire--they're an example--they are not still burning, but they are eternally destroyed. Try reading your own verse--1 Thes 1:9 "Who shall be punished WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION."--Destroyed, forever. Only the saved have eternal life given to them.
But you just go ahead and believe that God is going to torture His creations forever and ever if that makes you happy. It is contrary to what the Bible says and to the character of God. God is love and He is justice. You want a God that tortures people forever, fine. Guess what?---I do not have the last word, God does. So I'll just go along in my stupidity and you can go on in yours and then we will both see how this thing ends---I hate to think of you being saddened by sinners and sin being destroyed and hope you have your wish and can watch me going to hell to burn forever and ever writhing in perpetual agony, that should just make you jump up and down with sheer delight, and you can say--"See, I told you so!!"

 

[Codger]

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The 40 years is determined as a generation when God led the tribes of Israel around the desert for 40 years saying that he needed the generation who had seen the bad things in Egypt to die out.

The 40 years are again duplicated for the second Christian covenant during our "hour of temptation." Rev.3;10 When a day equals a thousand years then each of it's 24 "hours" is equal to 40 years. Our 40 years of temptation began in 2000AD according to these calculations.

My post was commenting on the capriciousness of the futuristic school of thought. I am not disputing that 40 years is a generation – so far as I can see this is true. In New Testament times that was the average life expectancy: 40 years. I am just pointing out all of the complicated gyrations that people go through in order to make their eschatology work. Now a generation is 75 years? – this is absurd.

 

[Codger]

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How do we get even more exact for the time the Tribulation starts?

• Each year there are from Feast of Trumpets 2,520 (Dan. 9.27, 12.7, Rev. 12.6) days to Tisha B'Av or 2,550 (Dan. 12.11) days to Day of Atonement;
• there are 2300 days (Dan. 8.14) from the day before Passover to Tisha B'Av from 2016 to 2022 and for 2017 to 2023;
• thus, we know the Tribulation starts on Feast of Trumpets either Sept. 14, 2015 or Oct. 3, 2016.

Daniel 8:13
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled —the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

This was a prophesy where Daniel foresaw the coming of Antiochus Epiphanes who desecrated the Temple in the second century BC. He is counting the number of the required daily sacrifices. This was one lamb in the morning and one in the evening. So if you want to know the number of days involved in this period you have to divide by two. This gives you 1,150 days which is about equal to 42 months or 3 ½ years depending on how you calculate the Hebrew calendar.

The Temple during the occupation by Antiochus was non functional for a period of 3 ½ years. It was occupied by Antiochus for three years to the day and it took another six months to cleanse it before it could be used again.

It was just not a process of pressure washing the Temple rather they had to do a major renovation which would include removal of the stones in the floor and also several feet of the dirt underneath. They also had to build a new alter of sacrifice – and who knows what else. Anyway it took six months. This is what Daniel predicted and it came to pass.

What day does Jesus step down on the mount of olives?

• Jesus would step down on the 2,520th day which would be Aug. 7, 2022.

4 On that day (on the day of the crucifixion) his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

In Uzziah's time there was a mammoth earthquake, which caused a massive landslide on the south west side of the Mount of Olives. Zechariah is using this literal event to demonstrate the parallel between the crucifixion and the landslide. Apparently there was a valley created of some degree between the rubble that had accumulated at the bottom of the mountain and the mountain itself. In those days the inhabitants of the city escaped the city through this valley. This of course was to avoid aftershocks.

So just like the Jews used the natural valley to escape – likewise the inhabitants of the world (Jews first) would escape sin and uncleanness by passing through the valley of escape that Jesus made by his crucifixion. And it will extend to Azel – where the scapegoat was set free.

Zechariah 14:6 On that day (the day of the crucifixion) there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

Matthew 27:45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Bible students have not been able to account for this. Some have tried to say it was a solar eclipse, but it doesn't work as it only lasts for about 7 ½ minutes - not 3 hours. Some have given up and say it is supernatural – they are right.

Zechariah 14:5 ...Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

The reason for the darkness that day was the fact that God himself appeared on the scene clothed in dark clouds as indicated in the Old Testament and at the transfiguration as well. This great massive host of witnesses darkened the sky that day during the travail of Jesus from noon to three o'clock. After they left it was light again.

There is absolutely no connection between Acts 1:11 and Zechariah 14:4-6. In fact you have the chronology reversed. Zechariah was prophesying the crucifixion of Jesus, which took place on the top of the Mount of Olives. There is no reference at all that Jesus is “STEPPING DOWN.” Rather he walked up that mountain that fateful Passover day.

Zechariah 14:4 is about the cross And Acts 1:11 is about his coming return to take his people off of the earth. It's not the other way around as you are suggesting.

After studying for two years I find the key to the book of Zechariah is in the phrase In (or on) that day which means the very day of the crucifixion. He uses this phrase 23 times in his book mostly in the second half which is purely Messianic. This phrase limits the scope of the interpretation to a single day in time. Each reference is a picture of events that happened on that day – try it - you will see.

 

[watchfulChristian]

No, the 70th week follows the 69th week, obviously. Jesus came after the 69th week, for the 70th week, where he confirmed the New Covenant with many of Israel for his 3 1/2 year ministry before he was cut off in the middle of that week of years.

There are only 42 months remaining, where the New Covenant is confirmed with many more of Israel, specifically the 144,000 who are sealed by God and protected during the 42 months.

The 69th seven ended March 28, 33 AD (Gregorian) since there are 173,880 days from Nisan 1, 444 BC (Neh. 2.1). Jesus died on the cross April 1, 33 AD Passover. Jesus was cut off after the 69th seven, not three and half years after the 69th seven, but 4 days later. So you are overlapping the 69th and 70th sevens. His ministry was 3 years. And you can't arbitrarily cut up the 70th seven into two pieces. Each seven is a unit together in time: e.g. the 70th seven (Dan. 9.27) is "one week". Moreover, Jesus is not the "prince" in Dan. 9.26, for the "people of the prince" are Romans, and Romans are not Jesus' people. So the "he" in Dan. 9.27 who is the "prince" in verse 26 is the Antichrist. "Destroy the city and the sanctuary" (v.26) occurs before Dan. 9.27, but Jesus died before the Temple was destroyed 70 AD as you place Dan. 9.27 before and you call it Jesus dying on the cross. When Jesus died the Temple was not made desolate immediately. You have things ass backwards.

The New Covenant is not with just 144,000, for anyone who comes to the cross can be saved by faith and receive the Holy Spirit indwelling. The 144,000 in Rev. 7.1-8 are a remnant of Jews protected. The 144,000 in Rev. 14.1-5 are virgin firstfruit Christians who are closest to the Lord who will be raptured at the start of the Tribulation with other overcomers. The later harvest rapture and resurrection occurs at the 7th trumpet (Rev. 14.14-16).

No, it says: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. "

It's saying because of all of Israel's sins (abominations, not "the abomination of desolation"), Jesus/God will desolate Israel until the time of the end and what has been determined will be poured out on them.

"He" is the "prince" in verse 26. The prince is not Jesus, for the "people of the prince" are Romans. The Romans are not Jesus' people. Dan. 9.27 uses the word "abomination" and "desolate". The abomination of desolation. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand" (Matt. 24.15). Israel will be desolate afte 70 AD as well as after the Antichrist reigns in the 3rd Temple, that's why we are not to measure the court outside the Temple (Rev. 11.2), but we do measure the Temple. In 70 AD there is no measuring of the Temple because it was destroyed. 2019-22 the Temple is measured because it will be protected, it won't be destroyed like in 70 AD.

This is the exact same thing that Jesus said in Matt 23:

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
...
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Of course Israel is made desolate: "unto the end desolations are determined" (Dan. 9.26), but in that, a covenant at the end is made for one week (2,520 days) where in the "middle" the sacrifices and oblation cease, because the Antichrist "who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (2 Thess. 2.4).

The abomination of desolation had nothing, at all, to do with the antichrist. It was the Romans destroying and desolating Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple - sent by God to do so.

The fulfillment of the abomination of desolation occurred in 70AD when God sent the Roman armies to destroy and desolate Israel until the time of the end.

The abomination of desolation has nothing to do with the 70th week and was fulfilled in 70AD.

There are only 42 months remaining of the 70th week.

The abomination of desolation has everything to do with the Antichrist, for He makes a treaty for 7 years only to break it in its midst. The people of Rome are not the people of Jesus. Jesus is not the prince, but the Antichrist is. No abomination is mentioned in Dan. 9.26 when the Temple was destroyed, that is, there was no idol placed therein for it was destroyed. But at the end of this age an idol will be set up, the image of the Antichrist, who can talk.

The 84 months of the 70th seven haven't started, because three things must procede: 1) great earthquake (2010/11), unique solar eclipse (Nov. 3, 2013), unique lunar eclipse (2014/15) as per Joel 2.31 and Rev. 6.12. Since the 5th trumpet is 5 months and the 6th trumpet is 13 months in Rev. 9 that leaves 24 months for the 7th trumpet for a total of 42 months. Between these 3 woes and those 3 signs is Revelation 8 which are 4 trumpets that hurt the earth. The woes hurt and kill people.

15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.

The only way a person would get 13 months out of that verse is to add up the hour, day, month and year which is absolutely absurd.

A year, month, day and hour is 13 months. Actually it is 13 months and a day so a better estimate would be Aug. 20, 2020 for the start of the 7th Trumpet rather than Aug. 18, 2020, because the day and hour roll into the next two days. Don't allegorize this. Most people think the killing and holocaust mostly occur in the 7th trumpet, but it is the 6th trumpet when 1/3 of people die. What a meaningless statement to say for a year and a month if it was not so.

The angel defined who the prince that shall come was:

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

There is no other person in Daniel 9:24-27, only "Messiah the Prince" who is "the prince that shall come" who would send an army to destroy and desolate Israel until the time of the end because of their abominations against God that Jesus himself described in Matt 23.

The "Messiah the Prince" or annointed one in verse 25 is not the "prince" in verse 26 & 27 of the Romans. Contrast "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself" (v.26) is clearly Jesus with, "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" (v.26). The prince that shall come is the Antichrist who is the Antichrist of all antichrists to wage the final battle. The people of the future Antichrist will first destroy the Temple, then it will be rebuilt and not destroyed this time. The 3rd Temple is the final Temple on earth. There will not be a 4th Temple.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Oh, you mean by declaring such unscriptural falsehoods as "the first 42 months are for the earth and the last 42 months are for people" or "the 2nd woe is 13 months long" or "the abomination of desolation is the antichrist".

None of that is found in the Bible and there's no reason to believe it.

Just as all the 69 sevens are 2,520 days each, so is the 70th seven which is composed of the 7 trumpets. Trumpets are loud as will the Tribulation be. The Bible says Jesus was cut off after the 69th seven which implies shortly after within days, not 3.5 years later. Therefore, overlapping of the 69 and 70th sevens will not do.

Indeed, in Rev. 9 the 5th trumpet is 5 months, the 6th trumpet is 13 months. Since Rev. 9.1 starts the Great Tribulation of 3 woes, that leaves 24 months for a total 42 months. What then of the first four trumpets? They are in Rev. 8 and they hurt the earth rather than people. First the earth gets hurt then the people. The 4 trumpets are 42 months. Together all 7 trumpets are 84 months or 2,520 days. The 70th seven has not started yet, and won't start till these 3 signs take place in Rev. 6.12.

 

[watchfulChristian]

WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY

He alone can never die since He is God. How does that discount Hell or the fact that humans are permanently existing, made in God's image? Just because someone is permanently existing doesn't mean that person has eternal life or will receive eternal life.

 

[Markusanthem]

The 69th seven ended March 28, 33 AD (Gregorian) since there are 173,880 days from Nisan 1, 444 BC (Neh. 2.1). Jesus died on the cross April 1, 33 AD Passover. Jesus was cut off after the 69th seven, not three and half years after the 69th seven, but 4 days later. So you are overlapping the 69th and 70th sevens. His ministry was 3 years. And you can't arbitrarily cut up the 70th seven into two pieces. Each seven is a unit together in time: e.g. the 70th seven (Dan. 9.27) is "one week". Moreover, Jesus is not the "prince" in Dan. 9.26, for the "people of the prince" are Romans, and Romans are not Jesus' people. So the "he" in Dan. 9.27 who is the "prince" in verse 26 is the Antichrist. "Destroy the city and the sanctuary" (v.26) occurs before Dan. 9.27, but Jesus died before the Temple was destroyed 70 AD as you place Dan. 9.27 before and you call it Jesus dying on the cross. When Jesus died the Temple was not made desolate immediately. You have things ass backwards.

The New Covenant is not with just 144,000, for anyone who comes to the cross can be saved by faith and receive the Holy Spirit indwelling. The 144,000 in Rev. 7.1-8 are a remnant of Jews protected. The 144,000 in Rev. 14.1-5 are virgin firstfruit Christians who are closest to the Lord who will be raptured at the start of the Tribulation with other overcomers. The later harvest rapture and resurrection occurs at the 7th trumpet (Rev. 14.14-16).


"He" is the "prince" in verse 26. The prince is not Jesus, for the "people of the prince" are Romans. The Romans are not Jesus' people. Dan. 9.27 uses the word "abomination" and "desolate". The abomination of desolation. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand" (Matt. 24.15). Israel will be desolate afte 70 AD as well as after the Antichrist reigns in the 3rd Temple, that's why we are not to measure the court outside the Temple (Rev. 11.2), but we do measure the Temple. In 70 AD there is no measuring of the Temple because it was destroyed. 2019-22 the Temple is measured because it will be protected, it won't be destroyed like in 70 AD.


Of course Israel is made desolate: "unto the end desolations are determined" (Dan. 9.26), but in that, a covenant at the end is made for one week (2,520 days) where in the "middle" the sacrifices and oblation cease, because the Antichrist "who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (2 Thess. 2.4).


The abomination of desolation has everything to do with the Antichrist, for He makes a treaty for 7 years only to break it in its midst. The people of Rome are not the people of Jesus. Jesus is not the prince, but the Antichrist is. No abomination is mentioned in Dan. 9.26 when the Temple was destroyed, that is, there was no idol placed therein for it was destroyed. But at the end of this age an idol will be set up, the image of the Antichrist, who can talk.

The 84 months of the 70th seven haven't started, because three things must procede: 1) great earthquake (2010/11), unique solar eclipse (Nov. 3, 2013), unique lunar eclipse (2014/15) as per Joel 2.31 and Rev. 6.12. Since the 5th trumpet is 5 months and the 6th trumpet is 13 months in Rev. 9 that leaves 24 months for the 7th trumpet for a total of 42 months. Between these 3 woes and those 3 signs is Revelation 8 which are 4 trumpets that hurt the earth. The woes hurt and kill people.


A year, month, day and hour is 13 months. Actually it is 13 months and a day so a better estimate would be Aug. 20, 2020 for the start of the 7th Trumpet rather than Aug. 18, 2020, because the day and hour roll into the next two days. Don't allegorize this. Most people think the killing and holocaust mostly occur in the 7th trumpet, but it is the 6th trumpet when 1/3 of people die. What a meaningless statement to say for a year and a month if it was not so.


The "Messiah the Prince" or annointed one in verse 25 is not the "prince" in verse 26 & 27 of the Romans. Contrast "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself" (v.26) is clearly Jesus with, "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" (v.26). The prince that shall come is the Antichrist who is the Antichrist of all antichrists to wage the final battle. The people of the future Antichrist will first destroy the Temple, then it will be rebuilt and not destroyed this time. The 3rd Temple is the final Temple on earth. There will not be a 4th Temple.

The angel defined "the prince" in Daniel 9 as Jesus: "Messiah the Prince"

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

I gave you three scriptures that showed God saying that He sent forth his armies, from the daughter of Babylon (roman), to destroy and desolate Israel.

As far as the abomination of desolation that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24, referring to Daniel, it is found in Daniel 11 and even described in Psalm 74:

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.


Psalm 74:O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?
2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
3 Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.
4 Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.
5 A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees.
6 But now they break down the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.
7 They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground.
8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.



Just as the angel said in Daniel 9 and Jesus confirmed in Matt 22-24, it was Jesus/God who sent the Roman armies to destroy and desolate Israel. The things the Roman armies did was the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation is called that for a reason: Israel is desolated.

Matt 24, Luke 21, Daniel 9 and Daniel 11 all say that Israel is desolated until the time of the end. The desolation happened a long time ago, it is not future.

 

[watchfulChristian]

But you just go ahead and believe that God is going to torture His creations forever and ever if that makes you happy. It is contrary to what the Bible says and to the character of God. God is love and He is justice. You want a God that tortures people forever, fine. Guess what?---I do not have the last word, God does. So I'll just go along in my stupidity and you can go on in yours and then we will both see how this thing ends---I hate to think of you being saddened by sinners and sin being destroyed and hope you have your wish and can watch me going to hell to burn forever and ever writhing in perpetual agony, that should just make you jump up and down with sheer delight, and you can say--"See, I told you so!!"

Your faith goes against the character of God, for free will is not truly free if you don't give people the choice to be eternally separated from God. And you could not overturn the many verses given of this eternal separation from God. We are not robots or calvinists. The reason why Christians will no longer shed a tear for you is because you will be where you truly belong, and we accept that, in that place you deny will exist forever. That you would prefer this perpetual agony by denying it the choice to people speaks volumes, you are already engulfed in it. I doubt you and I will have any communication together in the next life. Man's flesh wants to think it is somehow just to cause a person to cease to exist after punishing him a good long while. This may seem benevolent, but in reality you are degrading our human nature not in God's image which can never cease to exist. God would never create a soul in His image then cause it to cease to exist. That is unholy, unrighteous and demented.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Now a generation is 75 years? – this is absurd.

When was Psalm 90.10 ever not 75 years?

 

[Markusanthem]

When was Psalm 90.10 ever not 75 years?

three score and ten is 70 years.

four score is 80.

Public educational system makes 70=75, no doubt.

Psalm 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

 

[watchfulChristian]

Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled —the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

This was a prophesy where Daniel foresaw the coming of Antiochus Epiphanes who desecrated the Temple in the second century BC. He is counting the number of the required daily sacrifices. This was one lamb in the morning and one in the evening. So if you want to know the number of days involved in this period you have to divide by two. This gives you 1,150 days which is about equal to 42 months or 3 ½ years depending on how you calculate the Hebrew calendar.

No such 2300 days were ever recorded with Antiochus. 2300 days are not anywhere near 42 months. 42 months is 1260 days. Silly. There are exactly 2300 days from the day before passover April 21, 2016 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022. This is true most every year I have checked.

The Temple during the occupation by Antiochus was non functional for a period of 3 ½ years. It was occupied by Antiochus for three years to the day and it took another six months to cleanse it before it could be used again.

There is no such record in history. There are 220 days before the 2300 days for a total of 2,520 days.

4 On that day (on the day of the crucifixion) his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

In Uzziah's time there was a mammoth earthquake, which caused a massive landslide on the south west side of the Mount of Olives. Zechariah is using this literal event to demonstrate the parallel between the crucifixion and the landslide. Apparently there was a valley created of some degree between the rubble that had accumulated at the bottom of the mountain and the mountain itself. In those days the inhabitants of the city escaped the city through this valley. This of course was to avoid aftershocks.

"On that day" is when Jesus returns, not His crucifixion, for there was no earthquake when Jesus died on the cross.

So just like the Jews used the natural valley to escape – likewise the inhabitants of the world (Jews first) would escape sin and uncleanness by passing through the valley of escape that Jesus made by his crucifixion. And it will extend to Azel – where the scapegoat was set free.

Zechariah 14:6 On that day (the day of the crucifixion) there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

There was no need for the Jews to escape when Jesus died. Zech. 14.6 is about Jesus' second coming. The Jews will need to flee during the Great Tribulation because the nations will come against Israel, but leave the 3rd Temple unscathed (Rev. 11.2).

Matthew 27:45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?&#8221.

Bible students have not been able to account for this. Some have tried to say it was a solar eclipse, but it doesn't work as it only lasts for about 7 ½ minutes - not 3 hours. Some have given up and say it is supernatural – they are right.

Jesus died on April Fool's Day, April 1, 33 AD Gregorian.
NASA says there was a lunar eclipse when Jesus died in 33 AD, April 3 Julian (April 1 Gregorian) 33 AD Crucifixion Lunar Eclipse

There is nothing to suggest how long it is suppose to take in the Bible. Silly.

Zechariah 14:5 ...Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

The reason for the darkness that day was the fact that God himself appeared on the scene clothed in dark clouds as indicated in the Old Testament and at the transfiguration as well. This great massive host of witnesses darkened the sky that day during the travail of Jesus from noon to three o'clock. After they left it was light again.

The earthquake never happened when Jesus died on the cross.

There is absolutely no connection between Acts 1:11 and Zechariah 14:4-6. In fact you have the chronology reversed. Zechariah was prophesying the crucifixion of Jesus, which took place on the top of the Mount of Olives. There is no reference at all that Jesus is “STEPPING DOWN.” Rather he walked up that mountain that fateful Passover day.

Zechariah 14:4 is about the cross And Acts 1:11 is about his coming return to take his people off of the earth. It's not the other way around as you are suggesting.

After studying for two years I find the key to the book of Zechariah is in the phrase In (or on) that day which means the very day of the crucifixion. He uses this phrase 23 times in his book mostly in the second half which is purely Messianic. This phrase limits the scope of the interpretation to a single day in time. Each reference is a picture of events that happened on that day – try it - you will see.

The data we have gone over shows there is no connects to Zech 14 and Jesus' death on the cross. Acts 1.11, Rev. 1.7 and Zech. 14.4 are the same events. Surely there would be some mention of crucifixion in Zech. 14 if what you believe were true.

Acts 1.11 is not about taking people off the earth. It says "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

"But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light" (Zech. 14.7). This has neve happened before.

Nor has 14.9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Nor "there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

You're confused.

 

[Markusanthem]

Another admission by God that He is the one who desolated Israel because of their abominations, just like in Daniel 9:

Ezek 5:11 Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord God; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.
12 A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.


Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Another one:

Ezek 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.


And another one:

Ezek 9:4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?
9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.
10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

 

[watchfulChristian]

The angel defined "the prince" in Daniel 9 as Jesus: "Messiah the Prince"

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

You're confusing the "Annointed One" (Dan. 9.25) with the Antichrist "prince" (v.26). The "people of the prince" are Romans. They are not Jesus' people.

I gave you three scriptures that showed God saying that He sent forth his armies, from the daughter of Babylon (roman), to destroy and desolate Israel.

None of those verses say the Romans are Jesus' people.

As far as the abomination of desolation that Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24, referring to Daniel, it is found in Daniel 11 and even described in Psalm 74:

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Don't confuse Antiochus with end-times. They foreshadow but are not the same.

Psalm 74:O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?
2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
3 Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.
4 Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.
5 A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees.
6 But now they break down the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.
7 They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground.
8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

There are consequences for sin.

Just as the angel said in Daniel 9 and Jesus confirmed in Matt 22-24, it was Jesus/God who sent the Roman armies to destroy and desolate Israel. The things the Roman armies did was the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation is called that for a reason: Israel is desolated.

Matt 24, Luke 21, Daniel 9 and Daniel 11 all say that Israel is desolated until the time of the end. The desolation happened a long time ago, it is not future.

Always remember the "people of the prince" are Romans and Romans are not the people of Jesus. The Romans are "political Rome" which will be destroyed (Rev. 18). The sevens do not overlap. Each seven is not split up. They remain as a unit. The people of the Antichrist destroyed the Temple, not Jesus. That God allows it to happen is not the same thing as saying they are his people.

Israel is not destroyed. She is back. Israel became a nation again May 14, 1948. Ezekiel's prophecy on his side takes us literaly to May and the year 1948.

Many other Scripture agree. Never before in history could 200 million military units congregate in the middle east (Rev. 9.16) or 1/3 of people die in nuclear holocaust (v.18). There was no 7 year treaty before (Dan. 9.27). Jesus never made a convenant for 7 years. Silly.

 

[watchfulChristian]

three score and ten is 70 years.

four score is 80.

Public educational system makes 70=75, no doubt.

Psalm 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

By reason of strength 80 years otherwise 70 years. Take the median of 75 so 75 years from 1948 is 2023. This gives the latest possible time the 7 Year Tribulation can end and Jesus step down, but see the opening post to see how more exacting we can get.

 

[Markusanthem]

You're confusing the "Annointed One" (Dan. 9.25) with the Antichrist "prince" (v.26). The "people of the prince" are Romans. They are not Jesus' people.

We are in agreement that it was the Roman armies that God sent to destroy and desolate Israel, burn Jerusalem and the Temple, are we not?

Matt 24:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.


Isaiah 47:5 Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.
6I was wroth with my people, I have polluted mine inheritance, and given them into thine hand: thou didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke.


Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Markusanthem]

By reason of strength 80 years otherwise 70 years. Take the median of 75 so 75 years from 1948 is 2023. This gives the latest possible time the 7 Year Tribulation can end and Jesus step down, but see the opening post to see how more exacting we can get.

LOL!

nope.