Certainty Jesus Returns No Later than 2023

Markusanthem said:

Do you know why God sent the Romans to destroy Jerusalem and the Temple?

Think about it. What kingdom that destroyed God's people can be called "daughter of the babylonians"?

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God did not send the Romans but allowed it to happen. The people of the prince is the people of the future Antichrist.

Naturally because the Jews rejected God's only begotten Son, they fell into disrepute and were easily taken over by the evil Empire. Why is this so hard for you to understand? This is Dan. 9.26. Dan. 9.27 is the Tribulation.

Markusanthem said:

I just quoted Jesus. He said the tribulation is over before wrath begins at the time of the 6th seal.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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Matt. 24.29 says Jesus returns at the end of the Tribluation. Rev. 6.12 says before the Tribulation are these signs in the heavens. You're confused.

Markusanthem said:

No, the abomination of desolation is not mentioned as part of the 70th week anywhere in scripture.

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Sure it is: "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations" (Dan. 9.27).

The Roman armies are the ones who desolated Israel. They and their actions are the abomination of desolation.

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What the Roman army did is mentioned in Dan. 9.26: "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary." There is no mention of an abomination set up or idol. There is no 7 year period around 70 AD. You're confused.

The desolation of Israel in 70 AD has nothing to do with the 70th week.

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I know, that's why the "abomination" in Dan. 9.27 of the 70th week has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Israel was desolated because of their abominations - idolatry, disobedience, refusal to listen to the prophets and their Savior.

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The abomination is set up not by Israel but by the False Prophet during the Tribulation and cancel's Israel's sacrifices: "the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations" (Dan. 9.27).

The antichrist will not "destroy the city and the sanctuary". Jesus sent the Romans to do that.

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I never said the Antichrist will destroy the Temple. Neron Kaiser (666 in Aramaic) will be the future Antichrist. "People of the [future] prince" (Dan. 9.26).

The antichrist is never referred to as "the prince that shall come" but Jesus sure was in Daniel 9.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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"The prince" (Dan. 9.27) is that Antichrist not Jesus. You are worshiping the wrong person.

Markusanthem said:

It says that the sign of the Son of Man occurs at the end of the Tribulation and the tribes of the earth mourn. It says those mourning tribes will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and glory.

The sign of the Son of Man is His glorious appearing for the church.

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The sign of the Son of Man is not His appearing. Jesus is not a sign. How silly. I am convinced the sign is Jupiter 2022 which will be the closest to earth in hundreds of years and comets are suppose to hit it creating a sparkling effect in 2022.

Jesus says the tribulation is over before the sun and moon darken and the stars fall.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

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The sun and moon darkened are not the blacksackcloth sun and red blood moon before the great and terrible day of the Lord (Joel 2.31, Rev. 6.12). The Tribulation is encapsulated with the signs before and after (Rev. 11.15). Never do you read in Scripture the solar eclipse and lunar eclipse after the Tribulation. Cloud cover or other natural events create the darkening at the end of the Trib, like nuclear holocaust (Rev. 15 & 16 give the details of 9.18).

Jesus says in Revelation that the sun and moon darken and the stars fall when the day of wrath begins.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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The day of wrath is the Tribulation and it is entensified in the latter part in the bowls of wrath contained within the 7th trumpet. Rev. 6.12 is not just a darkening but literally the great earthquake 2010/11, Nov. 3, 2013 H3, 2014/15 Tetrad in that precise order. Then the Tribulation starts with the 1st trumpet (8.7) after a first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven.

Markusanthem said:

"Overspreading of abominations" does not equal "abomination of desolation". Overspreading of abominations refers to what Jesus was talking about in Matt 23:

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

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The overspreading of abomination does equal abomination of desolation that lasts 1260 days. No such timeline was given 70 AD.

"And upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end" (v.27b). "The wing of abominations" speaks of idols. In the temple of God the wings of the cherubim covered the ark. Yet Antichrist shall enter God’s temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thess. 2), thus having the wings of abominations. Due to this idolatry, God will permit desolations to extend for three and a half years until the end of the seventy sevens. "And that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate" (v.27c). The desolate is Jerusalem. As the end of the seventy sevens approaches, the nations shall gather to attack Jerusalem. Then shall the Lord fight for her (Zech. 14.1-6). And so shall the word of Daniel 9.24 be fulfilled.

Yes, Jesus sent the Roman armies to destroy/desolate Israel because of their abominations in killing those sent to them. It has nothing to do with the 70th week. Daniel 9 does not say that Israel would be desolated during the 70th week.

It is because they killed Jesus during the 70th week (among other things) that they are desolated in 70AD.

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The people of the prince are the people of the future Antichrist, not Jesus. Matt. 24 says they will have to flee from Jerusalem, hopefully not in the winter. This is that which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Matt. 24.15). We "shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"

Then why are you trying to fit the abomination of desolation into the 70th week? The abomination of desolation occurred in 70AD and has nothing to do with the 70th week.

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Because Dan. 9.27 says "abomination". The abomination of desolation did not occur 70 AD, since there was no seven year period associated to it and Jesus is not the prince, for Jesus is not the prince of the Romans.

No, Jesus sacrifice during the middle of the 70th week caused sacrifice and oblation to cease. Jesus was cut off in the middle of that 70th week.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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There was no 7 year period when Jesus died. How silly. Surely we would know this by now. From the declaration to rebuild the Temple Nisan 1, 444 BC (Neh. 2.1) is 69 sevens after which Jesus would be cut off that takes us to 173,880 days to March 28, 33 AD, the 1st day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb. There is no overlapping of the 69th and 70th seven. How silly. Jesus was cut off after the 69th seven, not in the middle of the 70th seven. You're confused.

Then obviously Daniel 9:27 does not refer to the antichrist, as you claim.

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Of course Dan. 9.27 refers to the Antichrist. I never said the Antichrist will destroy the Temple. The Antichrist is not alive 70 AD, but it is the people of the future Antichrist who will be shown in the 70th seven. Neron Kaiser (666 in Aramaic) will be the future Antichrist. "People of the [future] prince" (Dan. 9.26).

The angel said who "the prince that shall come" was in Daniel 9:

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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"The end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined" (v.26). "The end" here is not the end of the city nor of the sanctuary. According to correct grammatical construction, "the end thereof" should be connected to the phrase "the prince that shall come." The fulfillment did not come at the time of Titus but is yet to come in the future. The people of the prince who shall come shall destroy this city and the sanctuary, but "the end thereof" (that is to say, the end of the prince)* shall come as a flood. We know that this superman is soon to come, and the world will have no peace. But thank God, we shall be gone before the Antichrist arrives.

* The Revised Standard Version (1952) recognizes this construction of the verse, as follows: ". . . and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. His end shall come with a flood . . ." (9.26 mg.)

Markusanthem said:

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

Uh, you think the appearing of the "sign of the Son of man in heaven" is...Jupiter?

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Yes, I can think of no more apt sign.

Do you have some sort of Biblical basis for that? I think not.

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What sign would be so amazing as that?

After the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven, the tribes of the earth mourn.

So, you're thinking they mourn when they see Jupiter?

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30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,

and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

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Never have they seen such a display before after the nuclear holocaust and then Jesus stepping down.

Jipsah said:

I'm willing to bet that you will when you've blown a few of your milestones, as you inevitably will. Date-setting is a losing proposition.

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Since Jesus gave the date and said you can "know" when He returns even "right at the door" (Matt. 24.33) I guess you got a big problem on your hands. Why need to set back dates when the first rapture occurs Sept. 14, 2015?

Jipsah said:

move us all to Mars! That's a lot funnier than

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That's weird that you think you can still live on earth with "no more sea" (Rev. 21.1). Good luck with that.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them . . . And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea . . . And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God" (Rev. 20.11, 21.1,10). The largest mountain in the solar system is located on Mars which is the perspective John viewed the new city from in spirit or vision.

Jipsah said:

found away around that. The Lord Himself may not know.

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You misread the Scriptures again. Don't confuse the end of the world with when Jesus returns. Jesus returns 1000 years before the end of the world.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away, but of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matt. 24.35,36).

We know the earth will be burnt up without the sea according to NASA which is much longer than 1000 years from now, but nobody knows that day, as 1000 years could be a vast period of time before those who are saved are transferred livingly to the New Earth.