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Featured LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    We are FIRST saved. People without the Spirit see no need for repentance and no legitimate reason to be baptized.


    Mormons have been indoctrinated with Mormonism. They can't see its errors until God reveals truth to them.

    Mormons don't understand mercy or grace because they have to EARN every blessing.
    Mormons have to access the atonement by obedience to extra biblical laws.


    LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Enrichment G, p. 395.gif
    Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment G, p. 395

    Mormons earn eternal life through obedience: Chart
     
  2. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You said: "You can't become one". You do have something to back up your opinion right? I hope to live with God in the celestial kingdom.
     
  3. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You said: "People without the Spirit see no need for repentance and no legitimate reason to be baptized." That is not a Biblical statement. This is:
    (New Testament | Matthew 3:11)

    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    The spirit came second.

    Those who love Jesus Christ will keep the commandments:
    (New Testament | John 14:15)

    15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    (New Testament | Matthew 6:33)

    33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    You yourself said it!!!
    God always was always will be---how does any man become a God? It is not possible to always be, when you have a beginning----God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit do not have a magical appearing out of nothing---they never did not exist. We are not the product of Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother---we never existed before being born. And even then, that still means you have a beginning from nothing. There is no such teaching in the bible. It is a product of the imagination of a highly imaginative and hormonal young man. You can not prove it from the bible---we are not His literal children---WE ARE ADOPTED! You don't adopt natural children, only that which is not natural. We aren't natural children, then unnatural in order to be adopted! The whole thing doesn't even make sense--but then not much of his stuff does. God is so much more than this little guy could imagine, he did not do a very good job of explaining the greatness of God. He tried to bring Him down to our level---we can't. He wanted Him at our level, so he could say we could get to His level. JS had a lust for power--not just women. He wanted to be President of this country, he wanted to be equal with God Himself!! He had delusions of grandeur.
     
  5. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I do hope you realize that this is the same lie that Satan told Eve---
    Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    She believed him---didn't go well.
     
  6. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Lets start with one item at a time. You said "we are not His literal children"
    What does the Bible say:
    (New Testament | Matthew 23:8 - 9)

    8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
    9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
    (New Testament | Hebrews 12:9)

    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
    (New Testament | Galatians 4:4 - 7)

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    Is there such a thing as a child who has a father and no mother? It is unheard of.
     
  7. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    It is even rarer to have a person with no father and no mother! In fact---there is only one--in 3 that is--God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit! We are His children and heirs---adopted! We can claim our inheritance when we are adopted. Without that adoption---we are nothing to Him.

    Rom_8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
    Rom_9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
     
  8. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Jesus sent the Holy Spirit after his death. Don't you remember?

    John 15
    26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    Some were baptized with water after receiving the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 10
    44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    Romans 8
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    1 Corinthians 2
    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


    Christian Charlie Brown.jpg
     
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  9. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    This is why they have to be adopted back:
    (New Testament | Hebrews 12:7 - 8)

    7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
    8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

    However we are all sons:
    (New Testament | Galatians 4:4 - 7)

    4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    Looking forward to the adoption into the celestial kingdom.
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    The scriptures you mentioned, Romans 8:9 and 1 Corinthians 2:14 do not mention repentance or baptism. Besides most of the people repented, confessed their sins and were baptized with water before they were given the Holy spirit. That is why your statement is flawed:
    (New Testament | Acts 2:38)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    (New Testament | Acts 19:4 - 6)

    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    Many are looking forward to being with the Father and the Son in the celestial kingdom.
     
  11. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Since there is no "celestial kingdom" as the lds define it, many will be disappointed. Heed Jesus' warning in Matthew 7:

    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
     
  12. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You may not believe in the celestial kingdom and that is your prerogative, but do you believe in the third heaven as mentioned in the Bible? We believe that the name of the third heaven is the celestial kingdom. Who are the evildoers mentioned in Matthew 7:23? Aren't they the ones who's works are evil?:
    (Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

    13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes, He deals with us as sons. Natural sons need never be adopted---even if they leave. They can come back 30 years later and they are still heirs. The Prodigal Son left--took his inheritance and blew it all. He was not adopted when he came back, he was still the natural son and heir. We have to be adopted, even those that die as children and innocent of sin---because we are not natural children. Baptism is a sign of that adoption, those that can't be baptized, are covered under the baptism of Christ.
     
  14. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I know that is your opinion. My opinion is this that we are all Jesus Christ's brothers as stated in the Bible and He is the Son of God. Therefore we are all sons of God, and as long as we accept the chastisement God gives to us we will remain His sons, but if we turn from Him we become bastards and are no longer sons. As sons of God we can be co-heirs with Jesus Christ and dwell in the celestial kingdom.
    (New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 17)

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
     
  15. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Jesus Christ, as the incarnate Word, is the Son of God by nature. The rest of us are not.

    The theology of Mormonism as presented by Mormons here seems to miss this incredibly crucial difference.
     
  16. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    He is our brother now for He took on humanity. Before that He was our Creator. His children only in the sense that He formed us out of dust and breathed life into us. We will have a glorified body, His humanity left Him with that also, however, He retains His divinity---which we will never have. We are co-heirs--but we are not the natural children of God the Father. We are adopted, Christ does not need to be.
     
  17. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you are on the forum, keep up the good work.
     
  18. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Again, as I said "as the lds define it". The Bible does not call the third heaven the "celestial kingdom", nor are there 3 levels of it.

    It's no surprise that you don't understand Matthew 7:23. It's talking about people who think they are following Christ (like the lds) but really aren't, not ones who fail to keep his commandments. Instead, they follow false prophets and false teachings (see v. 15). If the "evildoers" were really the ones described in your OT passage (why that is your default passage is beyond me?), then no one will get into heaven. We are saved by grace, not works (Eph 2:8-9). Nothing we do will change that.

    You misunderstand Scripture just like the man (Joseph Smith) you are following did. Don't fall for that trap!
     
  19. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting what God said about this fall. Do you remember?
    Genesis 3:22 King James Version (KJV)
    22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    This is the second step toward godhood. To come to earth and to get to know the difference between good and evil. He had a long way to go, but he now was on the right path.
     
  20. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    What then is this "divine nature" that we will be partakers of? (2 Peter 1:4)
     
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