Careful Not to Become a Persecutor

[Radrook]

No Christian ever imagines himself or herself as a persecutor of other Christians. However, because we are tethered to our senses and are therefore incapable of reading the human heart, the danger of doing so becomes very real. Attribution of malice when no malice was intended. Attribution of ulterior motives when these are absent. A generally aloof suspicious attitude toward a Christian who might be in dire need of Christian compassion and Christian fellowship based on a misjudgment of character can very well place us in the Christian persecutor position that we never imagined ourselves capable of occupying.

 

[Ken Rank]

No Christian ever imagines himself or herself as a persecutor of other Christians. However, because we are tethered to our senses and are therefore incapable of reading the human heart, the danger of doing so becomes very real. Attribution of malice when no malice was intended. Attribution of ulterior motives when these are absent. A generally aloof suspicious attitude toward a Christian who might be in dire need of Christian compassion and Christian fellowship based on a misjudgment of character can very well place us in the Christian persecutor position that we never imagined ourselves capable of occupying.

I appreciate your post more than I can say with words. God >>HATES<< strife/division that is caused between brethren (see Proverbs 6:16-19) and so unity (not uniformity) is very important to me. That said, I don't agree that if one attributes evil motives without knowing the hear of the other, or even committing lashon hara (evil tongue - speaking ill about others openly) is persecution. Sticks and stones break bones but names never hurt me.... I can make a much better argument that our mistreating of one another is really the "true and original" meaning of heresy. Hostility and ill-treatment that doesn't turn physical is a form of persecution, but all too often I see people who are not agreed with by another and they call that persecution. I shutter when I hear that because I think of the million Sudanese Christians in the last 20 years that have been killed, or the hundreds of thousands of middle eastern Christians who have been beheaded, shot, or crucified in the last 5 years by ISIS types. What they face on a daily basis, living in that kind of FEAR, is persecution. Being called names by those who don't agree with you is not persecution. IMHO

 

[redblue22]

I think being called names is a form of persecution.

 

[Radrook]

I appreciate your post more than I can say with words. God >>HATES<< strife/division that is caused between brethren (see Proverbs 6:16-19) and so unity (not uniformity) is very important to me. That said, I don't agree that if one attributes evil motives without knowing the hear of the other, or even committing lashon hara (evil tongue - speaking ill about others openly) is persecution. Sticks and stones break bones but names never hurt me.... I can make a much better argument that our mistreating of one another is really the "true and original" meaning of heresy. Hostility and ill-treatment that doesn't turn physical is a form of persecution, but all too often I see people who are not agreed with by another and they call that persecution. I shutter when I hear that because I think of the million Sudanese Christians in the last 20 years that have been killed, or the hundreds of thousands of middle eastern Christians who have been beheaded, shot, or crucified in the last 5 years by ISIS types. What they face on a daily basis, living in that kind of FEAR, is persecution. Being called names by those who don't agree with you is not persecution. IMHO

Your personal very narrow definition of the word doesn't harmonize with the official one which does make allowance for verbal abuse or any other kind of abuse which harasses a person.

Definition

persecute

(ˈpɜːsɪˌkjuːt)

vb (tr)

1. to oppress, harass, or maltreat, esp because of race, religion, etc

2. to bother persistently

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/persecute

 

[JackRT]

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote --- "Whoever fights monsters, should see to it that in the process he does not himself become a monster."

 

[Radrook]

Friedrich Nietzsche wrote --- "Whoever fights monsters, should see to it that in the process he does not himself become a monster."

How very true and how very typical of humans to self-righteously tag others as monsters while behaving as one themselves.

Thanks for the quote.

 

[Ken Rank]

I think being called names is a form of persecution.

Respectfully, I don't. When Christians are being beheaded, crucified, shot, daughters taken and raped and then killed... all for their faith... somebody calling me "ignorant" or "a fool" or "a jerk" just doesn't seem so bad in light of that. Maybe it is a form or persecution, but if we whine about that (not saying YOU are but I have seen many whine about name calling as persecution) then we are showing we are not ready to face what others are facing.

 

[redblue22]

Respectfully, I don't. When Christians are being beheaded, crucified, shot, daughters taken and raped and then killed... all for their faith... somebody calling me "ignorant" or "a fool" or "a jerk" just doesn't seem so bad in light of that. Maybe it is a form or persecution, but if we whine about that (not saying YOU are but I have seen many whine about name calling as persecution) then we are showing we are not ready to face what others are facing.

So you feel it is ok for you to verbally abuse other people. And you make it a point here to belittle other people if they are hurt by it or say anything about it. Who do you talk like that to? Wife? Children? Friends?

 

[Ken Rank]

So you feel it is ok for you to verbally abuse other people. And you make it a point here to belittle other people if they are hurt by it or say anything about it. Who do you talk like that to? Wife? Children? Friends?

Not at all... why (and how) would you come to that conclusion? To address that first... we are to love, extend mercy, mirror the Lord in our words and deeds. If our walk is void of love and grace, then our walk is void of God. Where you got the idea that I would even THINK of acting in a manner you just ascribed to me is beyond me!

All I am saying is... if you are getting offended because somebody called you a name, then you really need to put things in perspective. Somebody calling you a name and saying bad things about you is not cool, but to place that anywhere even remotely in the realm of being close to brothers and sisters who are dying, being raped, being tortured... is simply, well, it is a WESTERN thing to do.

What do I mean? I mean that here in the US we have enjoyed (with the exception of 9-11) a fairly stress free life of wealth (even our poor are rich compared to the rest of the world) without war on our soil, we've had limited terrorism and freedom of religion... even freedom from it. Because our life is so blessed, somebody calling us names or picking on our religion is a big deal to us and SEEMS LIKE persecution. But those are ONLY WORDS... names, derogatory comments... 1 million Sudanese Christians have been killed in the last 20 years while we go to work, watch TV, go to church, and eat like kings. In the last 5 years or so, many thousands of Middle Eastern Christians have been shot, beheaded, raped, and some even crucified by groups like ISIS. In the West we are oblivious to the pain, death, and anguish that Christians around the world face because of their faith. So is “name calling” a form of persecution? Perhaps by definition, but in light of what others are going through, I'd rather man-up and remember that “names never hurt me.”

 

[redblue22]

What do I mean? I mean that here in the US we have enjoyed (with the exception of 9-11) a fairly stress free life of wealth (even our poor are rich compared to the rest of the world)
I'd rather man-up and remember that “names never hurt me.”

Well, thank you for the clarification. Why do you end your post with another jab at people who are hurt by names? You wonder where I got the impression you verbally say things against people. Might be because you just belittled people who are hurt by names. Yeah, they should just man-up, got it. And if they don't, well you've already called them whiners.

Who is this "we" you are talking about living a life of wealth?

 

[Radrook]

Well, thank you for the clarification. Why do you end your post with another jab at people who are hurt by names? You wonder where I got the impression you verbally say things against people. Might be because you just belittled people who are hurt by names. Yeah, they should just man-up, got it. And if they don't, well you've already called them whiners.

Who is this "we" you are talking about living a life of wealth?

A person submitted to a constant barrage of insults by members of a Church might very well be stumbled away from Christianity and into Islam or the Jewish faith or even atheism. Using the tongue as a whip can have deadly spiritual effect. The Bible compares it capable of setting raging fires of contention and as revealing that the whole person is worthy of a fiery destruction due to an evil heart which inspires it.

James 3:6 ►
New International Version
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one's life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.

Jesus himself agrees!


Luke 6:45 ►
New International Version
A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

In fact, he makes control of our words a very urgent matter indeed!

Matthew 12:36 ►
New International Version
But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

So stumbling others via insults isn't to be recommended.

Matthew 18:6 ►
New International Version
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Instead we are told to please God by the things we meditate upon and what we are then motivated to say :

Psalm 19:14 ►
Parallel Verses
May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

 

[Ken Rank]

Well, thank you for the clarification. Why do you end your post with another jab at people who are hurt by names? You wonder where I got the impression you verbally say things against people. Might be because you just belittled people who are hurt by names. Yeah, they should just man-up, got it. And if they don't, well you've already called them whiners.

Who is this "we" you are talking about living a life of wealth?

First of all it wasn't intended as a jab at all. But second, if you take it that way you are proving my point... you are getting offended over words while Christians around the world are losing their lives and/or the lives of those they love. Words do not hurt you unless you LET THEM hurt you. Therefore, while they can be defined as "persecution," it shouldn't be a form that hurts. Losing your head hurts, watching your daughter get raped before losing your head hurts. Do you understand? We have been blessed and protected... but in a nation that has kicked God out of every public venue, that passes laws that causes that which God considers evil to be accepted as good... then times are coming on this land and when they do, you'll wish it were only words being thrown about.

Shalom.
Ken

 

[Ken Rank]

Who is this "we" you are talking about living a life of wealth?

I defined it in the post you quoted... I said, "even our poor are rich compared to the rest of the world." So, am I saying that you have the $ to do anything you want whenever you want? No, I know I can't... I love paycheck to paycheck like most people. But when we compare our life to MOST PEOPLE around the world... even our poor are WAY BETTER OFF than even the rich in some nations.

 

[Radrook]

So you feel it is ok for you to verbally abuse other people. And you make it a point here to belittle other people if they are hurt by it or say anything about it. Who do you talk like that to? Wife? Children? Friends?[/QUOTE

What he's saying seems comparable to saying that since there are persons getting their heads chopped off, then those who are simply getting poked in the face with a two-by-four should not classify their experience as equally harassing. I'm sure that it isn't exactly what he's saying but to me it comes across as something similar.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Actually,
the
supposed
"nice"
things people say
to trick others into joining(and staying) with them
is
probably far far far worse poison
than
all the mean things
ever said.....

"faithful are the wounds of a [true] friend"

but the "lips of evil-doers drip honey....
and their speech is smoother than butter" .....

 

[redblue22]

Just because a friend has cancer does not make my fever go away. There is always someone worse off. I don't like feeling guilty because my pains are not as bad as another. Should we rationalize racist statements that way? People make fun of the disabled here. Mods do nothing about it. Should the disabled here just take it and not feel hurt because it could be worse? It is just a joke, right?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Y'SHUA is our* teacher and our* example.

*Ecclesia, not the world.

 

[Radrook]

Just because a friend has cancer does not make my fever go away. There is always someone worse off. I don't like feeling guilty because my pains are not as bad as another. Should we rationalize racist statements that way? People make fun of the disabled here. Mods do nothing about it. Should the disabled here just take it and not feel hurt because it could be worse? It is just a joke, right?

Very true. The pain, either psychological or physical is still as strong whether we compare it with others or not and the justification for our feeling injured doesn't become any less valid. It's like saying that a person who is whipped forty times has no cause to complain because another was whipped fifty.

 

[Radrook]

There is a reason this commandment by the Lord cannot be obeyed by those who are not born again believers. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbors".

What prevents the non-born-again from not bearing false witness?

 

[Radrook]

Actually,
the
supposed
"nice"
things people say
to trick others into joining(and staying) with them
is
probably far far far worse poison
than
all the mean things
ever said.....

"faithful are the wounds of a [true] friend"

but the "lips of evil-doers drip honey....
and their speech is smoother than butter" .....

My son who wanted me to give him my guitar employed words dripping with honey for approx. three months. After he got my guitar the words dripping with honey vanished as did he.