Careful Not to Become a Persecutor

[Paidiske]

People make fun of the disabled here. Mods do nothing about it. Should the disabled here just take it and not feel hurt because it could be worse? It is just a joke, right?

If you see such posts, please report them, and then mods can't overlook them. It's a big forum with a very large number of posts and we don't see everything, but we do see what you report.

More on topic, I think this is extraordinarily difficult and we can't always recognise our own failures. We are different and it is very easy to fall into the trap, because we disagree with one another, of thinking that we are "better" than one another because each of us sees ourself as more "right."

I don't know what the answer is. I know how much it stings to be treated badly by Christians who disagree with me. I know there are times when I am impatient with Christians with whom I disagree. I try to listen more and speak less, and hope that this way I can learn some compassion and understanding.

True friendship has to have an element of respect even when we disagree.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I think being called names is a form of persecution.

Like the ones I've been called, here on CHRISTIAN Forums?

 

[Radrook]

Like the ones I've been called, here on CHRISTIAN Forums?

Liar is one that is often used but in a roundabout sort of way in order to avoid being banned. Such name-calling can be based on mere suspicion or an incredulity fostered by an inability to conceive that what is being recounted can ever happen and so MUST be a lie by default.

Or the name-calling can be motivated by a strong sense of persecution where persecutors are imagined to be on the Internet with the malicious purpose of spreading lies against a targeted group.

Whatever the reason might be, calling a person a liar is tantamount to calling him a son of the Devil and a Christian is justified in feeling deeply offended being described that way.

 

[Radrook]

Respectfully, I don't. When Christians are being beheaded, crucified, shot, daughters taken and raped and then killed... all for their faith... somebody calling me "ignorant" or "a fool" or "a jerk" just doesn't seem so bad in light of that. Maybe it is a form or persecution, but if we whine about that (not saying YOU are but I have seen many whine about name calling as persecution) then we are showing we are not ready to face what others are facing.

No sir! It doesn't mean that the person is reluctant to face greater persecution. It just means that the person has been hurt by the insulting denigrating things that have been said and the manner in which they have been said and the circumstances under which they have been said.

I recently visited a Synagogue with the intention of getting to know how they worshipped better and to see if indeed God wanted me to go in that direction. I was intercepted at the entrance by a Anglo looking Jewish man who referred to me as "Your kind of people!" called me a ""harasser" and demanded that I leave lest he sic his belligerent security guard on me or call the police.

According to you I am extremely hurt and offended by it because I am unwilling to face a harsher persecution? That doesn't necessarily follow.

 

[Ken Rank]

No sir! It doesn't mean that the person is reluctant to face greater persecution. It just means that the person has been hurt by the insulting denigrating things that have been said and the manner in which they have been said and the circumstances under which they have been said.

I recently visited a Synagogue with the intention of getting to know how they worshipped better and to see if indeed God wanted me to go in that direction. I was intercepted at the entrance by a Anglo looking Jewish man who referred to me as "Your kind of people!" called me a ""harasser" and demanded that I leave lest he sic his belligerent security guard on me or call the police.

Well, I am very sorry to hear this. Some people are simply not nice. I will say this about the Jewish people... for 2000 years we have chased them down trying to save them from hell. We have forced baptized them, taken away their identity by forcing them to leave their feasts.... we have even killed them in the name of Jesus. Not you or I... just speaking historically. 80+ years ago, Hitler comes on the scene and calls himself a Christian, and then kills millions. It isn't the job of the Jew to discern whether or not Hitler is a good Christian, after all, it isn't their religion... it isn't up to them to weed through who might or might not be reflecting the character of one they don't yet see as messiah. Do you understand? With that understanding Rad... how do you think many Jews view you (or me) today? With open arms? Ready to embrace? Not likely.

Look brother, I have watched Christians go into synagogues and cause trouble. I am >>NOT<< saying you did, I am just going to share something I saw. At the Conservative synagogue in Lexington, KY... all men must wear kippot. So, when I have gone in (5-6 times over the years) I put on a kipput, a head covering... because that is the rule of their house. And, out of respect, I leave my bible in the car because again, it is their house and while I am welcome, I am also a guest. So, when there... a guy comes in and won't cover his head because Paul said not to (even though that chapter is dealing with authority, but I don't need to go there now) and he insists on bringing in his new testament. So they were a little upset and the guy didn't realize what he was doing and actually made it right in the end. But... this is what they deal with... people evangelizing them, not respecting their views, their house... even their children as I know evangelicals who give tracts to Jewish CHILDREN which undermines parental authority. So I feel for you and your experience, but understand the place in which that comes from.

According to you I am extremely hurt and offended by it because I am unwilling to face a harsher persecution? That doesn't necessarily follow.

If your experience at the Synagogue is viewed by you as persecution, then that is what it is. I am not trying to heap onto your already hurt feelings... I just don't personally see WORDS with the weight you seem to. When I see people dying, daughters raped, mothers having babies cut out of their stomachs in front of the family... when I think of that Rad... I would REJOICE that my persecution came in the form of words.

 

[Radrook]

Well, I am very sorry to hear this. Some people are simply not nice. I will say this about the Jewish people... for 2000 years we have chased them down trying to save them from hell. We have forced baptized them, taken away their identity by forcing them to leave their feasts.... we have even killed them in the name of Jesus. Not you or I... just speaking historically. 80+ years ago, Hitler comes on the scene and calls himself a Christian, and then kills millions. It isn't the job of the Jew to discern whether or not Hitler is a good Christian, after all, it isn't their religion... it isn't up to them to weed through who might or might not be reflecting the character of one they don't yet see as messiah. Do you understand? With that understanding Rad... how do you think many Jews view you (or me) today? With open arms? Ready to embrace? Not likely.

Look brother, I have watched Christians go into synagogues and cause trouble. I am >>NOT<< saying you did, I am just going to share something I saw. At the Conservative synagogue in Lexington, KY... all men must wear kippot. So, when I have gone in (5-6 times over the years) I put on a kipput, a head covering... because that is the rule of their house. And, out of respect, I leave my bible in the car because again, it is their house and while I am welcome, I am also a guest. So, when there... a guy comes in and won't cover his head because Paul said not to (even though that chapter is dealing with authority, but I don't need to go there now) and he insists on bringing in his new testament. So they were a little upset and the guy didn't realize what he was doing and actually made it right in the end. But... this is what they deal with... people evangelizing them, not respecting their views, their house... even their children as I know evangelicals who give tracts to Jewish CHILDREN which undermines parental authority. So I feel for you and your experience, but understand the place in which that comes from.



If your experience at the Synagogue is viewed by you as persecution, then that is what it is. I am not trying to heap onto your already hurt feelings... I just don't personally see WORDS with the weight you seem to. When I see people dying, daughters raped, mothers having babies cut out of their stomachs in front of the family... when I think of that Rad... I would REJOICE that my persecution came in the form of words.

Thanks for the reply. The only reason I went to the synagogue is because I suddenly discovered that my name is of Sephardic Jewish origin and wanted to connect with what I began to feel is my heritage. I told the irate Jew who told me to leave and he sneered at me and told me to leave anyway. I wasn't aware that I needed to have a cap on my head but I have been told that other synagogues provide visitors with them. His reference to me as "Your kind!" came across as racist since he looks like a German Nordic Nazi type and I look southern European. But he didn't care how I would take that phrase nor did he care that I am 70 years old when he and his security guard who had no cap on his head and who is obviously a gentile hired hand menacingly converge on me.

Yes I am aware of their persecuted history. But I am NOT responsible for it. Had I been Nordic white, would he have dared do that? I doubt it. I think he used the occasion to express his NAZI-like racial bias. Weird since a synagogue is the place yiou least expect that kind of garbage from being dished out by a people who themselves have been persecuted based on race ad who should have learned compassion not cruelty. I will never go back again. May God be the judge between me and them and may he respond to the public humiliation and distress they inflicted on me in accordance with his justice. That is all I ask.

Anyway, thanks for the response and God bless.

 

[Ken Rank]

Thanks for the reply. The only reason I went to the synagogue is because I suddenly discovered that my name is of Sephardic Jewish origin and wanted to connect with what I began to feel is my heritage. I told the irate Jew who told me to leave and he sneered at me and told me to leave anyway. I wasn't aware that I needed to have a cap on my head but I have been told that other synagogues provide visitors with them. His reference to me as "Your kind!" came across as racist since he looks like a German Nordic Nazi type and I look southern European. But he didn't care how I would take that phrase nor did he care that I am 70 years old when he and his security guard who had no cap on his head and who is obviously a gentile hired hand menacingly converge on me.

Yes I am aware of their persecuted history. But I am NOT responsible for it. Had I been Nordic white, would he have dared do that? I doubt it. I think he used the occasion to express his NAZI-like racial bias. Weird since a synagogue is the place yiou least expect that kind of garbage from being dished out by a people who themselves have been persecuted based on race ad who should have learned compassion not cruelty. I will never go back again. May God be the judge between me and them and may he respond to the public humiliation and distress they inflicted on me in accordance with his justice. That is all I ask.

Anyway, thanks for the response and God bless.

We're not responsible for it, sorry if I made it sound that way. However, while not responsible, we are the living face of those who have done those deeds and to SOME Jews, we represent a threat. As for that guy... I would bet a weeks pay that he was a mainstream Christian who converted. Most Jews raised in Judaism are far more merciful than those who converted. Generally those people had things within Christianity they could not reconcile and they converted but are finding that the Jewish people don't have all the answers either, far from it. Those kind end up bitter and many even end up atheists. Sad reality, have seen it happen many times. Blessings Rad.

 

[Radrook]

We're not responsible for it, sorry if I made it sound that way. However, while not responsible, we are the living face of those who have done those deeds and to SOME Jews, we represent a threat. As for that guy... I would bet a weeks pay that he was a mainstream Christian who converted. Most Jews raised in Judaism are far more merciful than those who converted. Generally those people had things within Christianity they could not reconcile and they converted but are finding that the Jewish people don't have all the answers either, far from it. Those kind end up bitter and many even end up atheists. Sad reality, have seen it happen many times. Blessings Rad.

What have you seen happen many times? What happened to me?

BTW
I called the synagogue Rabbi of that temple and another nearby temple and reported the incident and have not received a response from neither yet.

 

[Ken Rank]

What have you seen happen many times? What happened to me?

BTW
I called the synagogue Rabbi of that temple and another nearby temple and reported the incident and have not received a response from neither yet.

Question... Temple or Synagogue?

I have seen mainstream Christians who were disgruntled convert to Judaism and then become zealous pain in the necks. Most Jews are pretty laid back, they are not very evangelical at all. There are some anti-missionaries... but my experience has been that most of them are made up of ex-Christians with ax to grind.

 

[Radrook]

Question... Temple or Synagogue?

I have seen mainstream Christians who were disgruntled convert to Judaism and then become zealous pain in the necks. Most Jews are pretty laid back, they are not very evangelical at all. There are some anti-missionaries... but my experience has been that most of them are made up of ex-Christians with ax to grind.

Why would a Christian have an ax to grind against a Christian who is interested in Judaism?

BTW
What is the difference between a Temple and a Synagogue?

 

[Ken Rank]

Why would a Christian have an ax to grind against a Christian who is interested in Judaism?

What I am saying, and what I have seen... is there have been some disgruntled Christians who have converted to Judaism and in the process, remained disgruntled toward whatever facet of Christianity it was that caused them to walk away. These types are generally the more zealous Jews in terms of how they deal with Christians. I suspect by your descriptions, the guy at the place you went to visit was an ex-Christian.

What is the difference between a Temple and a Synagogue?

The Reformed Jews (very liberal) meet in a temple. The Conservative and the Orthodox meet in a synagogue.

 

[Radrook]

What I am saying, and what I have seen... is there have been some disgruntled Christians who have converted to Judaism and in the process, remained disgruntled toward whatever facet of Christianity it was that caused them to walk away. These types are generally the more zealous Jews in terms of how they deal with Christians. I suspect by your descriptions, the guy at the place you went to visit was an ex-Christian.



The Reformed Jews (very liberal) meet in a temple. The Conservative and the Orthodox meet in a synagogue.

Understood. Thank you for the info. It will help me to deal with the experience in a more logical manner my brother in Christ.

Perhaps it was God's way of telling me too stay away.

God Bless!

 

[Ken Rank]

Perhaps it was God's way of telling me too stay away.

Maybe, or maybe the guy was just a jerk... that happens too.

One thing I know brother... when we want to gain muscle and strength, endurance... we lift weights, run, use different forms of exercise and when our muscles begin to hurt and we work through it we grow physically. It is the same in the Spirit... sometimes we go through things that stretch us, work us out a little.. and through the process we gain strength and endurance in our spirit. This could simply have been a workout for your spiritual growth, too?

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Radrook]

Maybe, or maybe the guy was just a jerk... that happens too.

One thing I know brother... when we want to gain muscle and strength, endurance... we lift weights, run, use different forms of exercise and when our muscles begin to hurt and we work through it we grow physically. It is the same in the Spirit... sometimes we go through things that stretch us, work us out a little.. and through the process we gain strength and endurance in our spirit. This could simply have been a workout for your spiritual growth, too?

Blessings.
Ken

Excellent insight and advice. Very much appreciated. It isn't fun. That's for sure. But, perhaps it might be for my own good as you say.

God Bless!