Canada vaccine awareness programs

[Go Braves]

Lots of mockery in one short statement paragraph. Why so hostile?

Perhaps the truth is that since those areas tend to have worse health care than Americans overall, they are more open to seeking options. The States With the Worst Healthcare Systems - The Atlantic

That's a good article. It doesn't say anything about chiropractors. I think there's some who'd prey on folks without as much money. In my own experience folks without a lot of money are less likely to see chiropractors on account of the costs involved & insurance not paying for as much of it if any.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

That's a good article. It doesn't say anything about chiropractors. I think there's some who'd prey on folks without as much money. In my own experience folks without a lot of money are less likely to see chiropractors on account of the costs involved & insurance not paying for as much of it if any.

Same here. It's mostly out of pocket. I've only seen one during one short period of a couple of months, but I was completely healed of two longstanding problems, so I'm certainly for options.

 

[Go Braves]

Same here. It's mostly out of pocket. I've only seen one during one short period of a couple of months, but I was completely healed of two longstanding problems, so I'm certainly for options.

I'm certainly for options too, so long as they are viable ones & not just the equivalent of snake oil being presented as an option. As I said before there's a few honest chiropractors out there & I've got nothing against grown folks such as yourself going there by your own choice spending your own money to get some help on your neck or whatever. That's 100% your right. I'm just against kids being brought to a chiropractor in place of a doctor for preventative and / or medical care.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I'm certainly for options too, so long as they are viable ones & not just the equivalent of snake oil being presented as an option. As I said before there's a few honest chiropractors out there & I've got nothing against grown folks such as yourself going there by your own choice spending your own money to get some help on your neck or whatever. That's 100% your right. I'm just against kids being brought to a chiropractor in place of a doctor for preventative and / or medical care.

A decent chiropractor wouldn't allow a child to be brought to him "in lieu of" medical care.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

A decent chiropractor wouldn't allow a child to be brought to him "in lieu of" medical care.

Just know, that the bulk of the Chiropractic profession would disagree with you. (and the ones you refer to as the decent ones, would be viewed as sell-outs by their own community).

I would agree with you on that...but just know that most Chiropractors wouldn't.

I would refer people to listen to the speeches (or as I'd call them, ramblings) of the late "Dr." Fred Barge.

He was arguably the most prominent Chiropractor behind DD Palmer and his son... (and was the president of the the American Chiropractic Association for decades - so he wasn't a fringe player in the profession by any means)

Most Chiropractors are simply smart enough to hide their beliefs from their clients because they know if they shared what they actually believed, and what they were actually taught, most of their clients would be like "uh, yeah, I think I'm going to stop giving you money now".

I'd highly recommend researching their attitudes towards what they think they can and can't treat with adjustments.


I cited the link before, I'll search through my posts again to see if I can dig it up and re-link it here, but I was debating it in Nutrition and Health forum, and the numbers were pretty eye opening. It was an NIH/PubMed polling study, I try and find it

It was something like
- ~60% reject any and all vaccinations
- Nearly 80% didn't believe in integrated approaches to health (meaning, they didn't believe anyone should be seeking Allopathic or anything outside of Chiropractic for care)
- Nearly 80% believed that Chiropractic was a natural and valid approach to managing mental health disorders


...and really, those numbers aren't surprising.

It's what they're being taught in school. Many don't realize, that Chiropractic is taught within its own industry-run network of schools. Nobody is getting a Harvard Chiropractic degree... the lion's share of students either attend Palmer College or "Life University", and if you review their course material, Chiropractors are just practicing what they were taught.

https://www.palmer.edu/uploadedfile...official_college_documents/palmer_catalog.pdf



The "few bad apples" adage does not apply to the Chiropractic profession. There are a few apples that are not quite as bad as the rest of the apples.

 

[Go Braves]

A decent chiropractor wouldn't allow a child to be brought to him "in lieu of" medical care.

Yes, I said exactly that in a previous post. The whole reason for this big diversion to talking about chiropractors in the 1st place was on account of an anti-vaxxer who brought it up right after she'd talked about having agonizing shingles as a kid. I'd like to believe that no parents would ever be foolish enough to bring a child with shingles to a chiropractor & that no chiropractor would ever be indecent enough to treat such a child, but I know that unfortunately neither is the case.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It was something like
- ~60% reject any and all vaccinations
- Nearly 80% didn't believe in integrated approaches to health (meaning, they didn't believe anyone should be seeking Allopathic or anything outside of Chiropractic for care)
- Nearly 80% believed that Chiropractic was a natural and valid approach to managing mental health disorders


...and really, those numbers aren't surprising.

It's what they're being taught in school. Many don't realize, that Chiropractic is taught within its own industry-run network of schools. Nobody is getting a Harvard Chiropractic degree... the lion's share of students either attend Palmer College or "Life University", and if you review their course material, Chiropractors are just practicing what they were taught.

https://www.palmer.edu/uploadedfile...official_college_documents/palmer_catalog.pdf



The "few bad apples" adage does not apply to the Chiropractic profession. There are a few apples that are not quite as bad as the rest of the apples.

Maybe I missed it but I see nothing in the link you cited that says this: (your quote):
- ~60% reject any and all vaccinations
- Nearly 80% didn't believe in integrated approaches to health (meaning, they didn't believe anyone should be seeking Allopathic or anything outside of Chiropractic for care)
- Nearly 80% believed that Chiropractic was a natural and valid approach to managing mental health disorders

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Maybe I missed it but I see nothing in the link you cited that says this: (your quote):
- ~60% reject any and all vaccinations
- Nearly 80% didn't believe in integrated approaches to health (meaning, they didn't believe anyone should be seeking Allopathic or anything outside of Chiropractic for care)
- Nearly 80% believed that Chiropractic was a natural and valid approach to managing mental health disorders

It wasn't in that link...in my previous post I mentioned that it was in a link i cited in a different thread a few months back and that I was going to try to see if I can find it.

I was able to find two of the surveys being referenced:
A Survey of American Chiropractic Association Members’ Experiences, Attitudes, and Perceptions of Practice in Integrated Health Care Settings
Attitudes toward vaccination: a survey of Canadian chiropractic students. - PubMed - NCBI
(here's another one that delves into the same subject matter: Chiropractors and Immunization)

The original link I had found (that had the links to all 3 NIH reports) is unfortunately behind a paywall now so I can't get to it.

 

[dgiharris]

Yes, I said exactly that in a previous post. The whole reason for this big diversion to talking about chiropractors in the 1st place was on account of an anti-vaxxer who brought it up right after she'd talked about having agonizing shingles as a kid. I'd like to believe that no parents would ever be foolish enough to bring a child with shingles to a chiropractor & that no chiropractor would ever be indecent enough to treat such a child, but I know that unfortunately neither is the case.

It wasn't in that link...in my previous post I mentioned that it was in a link i cited in a different thread a few months back and that I was going to try to see if I can find it.

I was able to find two of the surveys being referenced:
A Survey of American Chiropractic Association Members’ Experiences, Attitudes, and Perceptions of Practice in Integrated Health Care Settings
Attitudes toward vaccination: a survey of Canadian chiropractic students. - PubMed - NCBI
(here's another one that delves into the same subject matter: Chiropractors and Immunization)

The original link I had found (that had the links to all 3 NIH reports) is unfortunately behind a paywall now so I can't get to it.

I would love to see the Chiropractic profession enfolded within traditional medicine underneath "Physical Therapy". There are obvious and quantifiable benefits to seeing a Chiropractor. My brother was in a car accident, after treatment by the doctors he was left with random tingles, pain, and numbness in his back and lower legs. A doctor referred him to a Chiropractor and my brother noticed an IMMEDIATE difference and within 3 sessions everything went away.

I would also hope that being enfolded within real medicine would eliminate the quackery that is problematic in the profession. I did run across a Chiropractor that was a firm believer in Reiki Healing and made some ridiculous bogus claims.

It is so strange to me that in this so-called modern age there are so many who actually buy-in to this sort of quackery.

Not to derail the thread but I did a fair bit of martial arts back in the day. There is this new form of martial arts quackery in which you use your "ki" and "internal energy" to launch attacks as if you are in some sort of video game. And the students of these "masters" actually believe this nonsense.

I'm just so surprised that with us human beings, apparently there will always be a significant percentage of people susceptible to quackery.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I would love to see the Chiropractic profession enfolded within traditional medicine underneath "Physical Therapy". There are obvious and quantifiable benefits to seeing a Chiropractor. My brother was in a car accident, after treatment by the doctors he was left with random tingles, pain, and numbness in his back and lower legs. A doctor referred him to a Chiropractor and my brother noticed an IMMEDIATE difference and within 3 sessions everything went away.

A lot would need to change in order for that to happen. It's become a large industry, with self-regulating and self-accrediting schools, their own lobbying forces in congress, etc...

A couple things would need to happen in order for what you're saying to occur.

1) the "self-educating", "self-accrediting" from within the industry itself would need to go away. Meaning the education process would need to be moved out of "Palmer College" and "Life University", and be absorbed into existing medical schools, at which point they'd need to sift through the massive amount of quackery, and get to the 20% of chiropractic that has any validity.

2) You'd have to convince all of the existing ones to give up their beloved title of "Doctor" and make them comfortable with the reality that they're not on equal footing with D.O.'s and M.D'.s...being that most view themselves as >= MD's, something tells me that's going to be a hard sell.

3) They'd have to stop teaching people information that conflicts with proven medical science. So many have been taught to vehemently oppose 'all things pharmaceutical', that it'd have to be a big shift in what they've been taught and practicing for years and what they've been telling people for years. Many fancy themselves nutritional experts and give out abysmal nutrition advice on the grounds that "MD's only have 3 hours of nutrition training, we have over 40!" - but quantity doesn't always equal quantity.

So, while what you're saying does sound nice on paper...I think it'd be a tough task to get it folded into the mainstream medicine community.

 

[dgiharris]

.....
2) You'd have to convince all of the existing ones to give up their beloved title of "Doctor" and make them comfortable with the reality that they're not on equal footing with D.O.'s and M.D'.s...being that most view themselves as >= MD's, something tells me that's going to be a hard sell.
....

yeah, I know my post was definitely pie-in-the-sky...

People love their titles and their supposed "self knowledge". I'm amazed at how quickly and easily people like to dismiss the knowledge of not only medical professionals but the entire field of medicine. People will do it at the drop of a hat with some "anecdote" they saw in a facebook posting.

Chiropractors are very touchy about it, so yeah, they would never kneel and kiss the ring of traditional medicine... which is a shame really.

Get rid of the quackery (which imo is probably around 70% of the field) and you'd have a very decent field of medicine

 

[Go Braves]

The last few pages are about chiropractors on account of an anti-vaxxer bringing them up. Still not sure why she did. I'd like to hope that no parent would be foolish & irresponsible enough to bring a kid with shingles to a chiropractor. Of course I know that sadly there are folks who do just that. What on earth would a chiropractor do to 'treat' that?

Are chiropractors & naturopaths free in Canada? I thought their health care covered a lot of health care costs like seeing a pediatrician, immunizations. I take more kindly to grown American folks seeing chiros on account of neck pain or something, on account of it being cheaper, than folks who've got access to a pediatrician taking their child to a chiro instead.