Canada vaccine awareness programs

RestoreTheJoy

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...and again (we're going in circles here) the courts that have awarded those amounts of specifically said (and some even released later clarifications so that there would be no confusion), merely awarding payment doesn't validate the assertion made by the person making the claim...only that it matches the predefined timelines, and congress even acknowledged that with the loose way they had it written, they were going to end up shelling out money for issues that weren't actually related to the vaccines.

Please go back and read posts (I've covered this 3 or 4 times already), the courts themselves said their rulings were not a validation of the anti-vaccine position nor were the court ruling a validation of the position that vaccines are in any way linked to ASD.

This has been covered, you can continue to try to trot out the "but the courts ruled..." argument again and again, I'll continue to have the same (correct) answer for you.

I could again direct you to my posts, but we are talking past each other at this point. You are simply reiterating ad nauseum what you said without engaging any perspective contrary to your own. That's fine, but I think our conversation on this particular topic has run its course here.

You will continue to believe without question whatever you are told about any vaccines in whatever combination. I will continue to question until the billions in payouts stop. I guess we will find out in the end how God felt about it all.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I reckon there's some decent chiropractors out there but there's so many who are quacks. It can cause serious problems.
A Chiropractor Adjusted Her Neck. Then This Woman's Vision Problems Began

If grown folks want to see a chiropractor, alright. Maybe they'll luck up, get a good one. I think it's head up the rear end stupid for parents to take kids to a chiropractor in place of a MD for medical care.

I saw one once, years ago. He helped me immensely in just a few visits. He was one of the newer "non-cracking" types though. He told me that cracking someone's back or neck can kill you instantly. Great bedside manner ;) But he resolved a longstanding neck issue of a couple of decades by popping me on the chin after arranging me carefully for about 5 minutes. It's been about 15 years and the pain never came back. He also helped me resolve a longstanding digestive issue in one traumatic weekend with some supplements. Short but rough. Again, over 15 years and I have never had issues again.

They have their place but you need to be very careful who you select. I would not take a child, most likely.
 
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I saw one once, years ago. He helped me immensely in just a few visits. He was one of the newer "non-cracking" types though. He told me that cracking someone's back or neck can kill you instantly. Great bedside manner ;) But he resolved a longstanding neck issue of a couple of decades by popping me on the chin after arranging me carefully for about 5 minutes. It's been about 15 years and the pain never came back. He also helped me resolve a longstanding digestive issue in one traumatic weekend with some supplements. Short but rough. Again, over 15 years and I have never had issues again.

They have their place but you need to be very careful who you select. I would not take a child, most likely.

There's some decent chiropractors out there for sure, but a whole lot of quacks too. I think you went to a chiro for exactly the right reason to go see one, neck issues. Now that is rational. I don't find any fault in that at all, especially on account of how you were a grown person who went there yourself. The other thing is that you said the chiro resolved your neck issues. A lot of crooks in that field will keep having folks come back for ages on end, claiming they still need more adjustments. Sounds like you saw somebody honest.

I think that's a whole different ballgame than folks who bring their kids to chiropractors in place of getting them medical care.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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There's some decent chiropractors out there for sure, but a whole lot of quacks too. I think you went to a chiro for exactly the right reason to go see one, neck issues. Now that is rational. I don't find any fault in that at all, especially on account of how you were a grown person who went there yourself. The other thing is that you said the chiro resolved your neck issues. A lot of crooks in that field will keep having folks come back for ages on end, claiming they still need more adjustments. Sounds like you saw somebody honest.

I think that's a whole different ballgame than folks who bring their kids to chiropractors in place of getting them medical care.
I only saw him about 3 times. On the last time he told me to go home, that I was fine, and that he was NOT going to charge me because I didn't need anything. Now that impressed me. How many do that? I agree that the hacks (in anything really) want you returning for life because it is an endless stream of income.

I was very blessed!
 
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mama2one

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ThatRobGuy

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I think that's a whole different ballgame than folks who bring their kids to chiropractors in place of getting them medical care.

There's that and there's the double-edged sword in terms of which kind of Chiropractor you pick, a straight or mixer (the types I described previously). While the "straight" chiropractor won't even dabble in anything other than the adjustments (due to believing in Palmer's odd theories) and feel that adjustments are a panacea...many of the "mixers", even though they reject Palmer's "cure all by adjusting" theory, can tend to give some rather damaging advice in other realms depending on the one you go to.

Many of the "mixers" fancy themselves experts on supplementation and nutrition...however, that tends to go down another rabbit hole of pseudoscience as their information is often incredibly flawed.

My dad, to his own detriment, was going to one regularly for a wide variety of issues, everything from his high cholesterol and blood pressure...all the way to wasting 4 months and allowing his melanoma to metastasize instead of seeing a real doctor.

He got advice like "Don't listen to mainstream medicine, they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition", then proceeded to convince my dad that high cholesterol and more salt are actually good for you and "MD's just don't want you to know that"...he eventually caught on once his serum cholesterol levels were coming back 100 point over their already elevated levels (Go figure, eating salted things fried in coconut oil 3 times a day isn't actually good for you...who knew lol), and the guy had him trying "essential oils" (snake oils) and various herbal supplements for his skin cancer...which ended up getting into his lymph nodes.


Given that I've seen what can potentially happen when pseudoscience is given preference over actual medicine, I spare no words when it comes to swiftly shooting down potentially dangerous concepts.

When it comes to chiropractic, stay away from the "straights" altogether, and if you're going to see a "mixer", you got a 50/50 chance that they'll either be pragmatic about their limitations, or they'll try to sell you oils and marked up supplements at their front desk and make deceptive claims about what their supplements can do.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I could again direct you to my posts, but we are talking past each other at this point. You are simply reiterating ad nauseum what you said without engaging any perspective contrary to your own. That's fine, but I think our conversation on this particular topic has run its course here.

You will continue to believe without question whatever you are told about any vaccines in whatever combination. I will continue to question until the billions in payouts stop. I guess we will find out in the end how God felt about it all.

What is there to engage, though?

You make it sound as if it's blind following of my position. I've cited the numerous studies and data for why I believe what I do.

The reason why I keep reiterating the part about the courts is precisely because nobody from your side of this debate is acknowledging it or listening. People keep insisting that because the courts awarded money to people who claimed injuries were the result of vaccines, that somehow validates the position of the people who were awarded the money. The courts released a statement specifically addressing that (so there would be no confusion...joke was on them apparently) so that people wouldn't take away the wrong impression of their ruling.

If you want to continue believing that those court rulings validate your position (even though the courts themselves say they don't), then you're right, this conversation has run its course.

But you can't portray it as if the other side are "blind followers" when it's our side that actually has more supporting evidence. Following with no evidence would be blind...following the position that's produced the most reliable evidence is the sensible thing to do.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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What is there to engage, though?

You make it sound as if it's blind following of my position. I've cited the numerous studies and data for why I believe what I do.

The reason why I keep reiterating the part about the courts is precisely because nobody from your side of this debate is acknowledging it or listening. People keep insisting that because the courts awarded money to people who claimed injuries were the result of vaccines, that somehow validates the position of the people who were awarded the money. The courts released a statement specifically addressing that (so there would be no confusion...joke was on them apparently) so that people wouldn't take away the wrong impression of their ruling.

If you want to continue believing that those court rulings validate your position (even though the courts themselves say they don't), then you're right, this conversation has run its course.

But you can't portray it as if the other side are "blind followers" when it's our side that actually has more supporting evidence. Following with no evidence would be blind...following the position that's produced the most reliable evidence is the sensible thing to do.

There is so much. Too much to even address again at this point, and certainly not with someone whose mind is snapped closed on this issue. And you can believe that monetary judgments to shut people up is a well known tactic, utilized in all consumer law. If you think it is a merely innocent way to dispose of cases, you are more naive than you think. The preponderance of the evidence would suggest that legitimate investigation should be commenced.

Familiar with Dr. William Thompson? https://www.focusforhealth.org/dr-brian-hooker-statement-william-thompson/

He's a former CDC doctor who participated in falsifying data at CDC request, and he's willing now to testify to Congress about how the data was manipulated. Interestingly, none of this was picked up in mainstream media. Not one Congressional committee chair has called a hearing to subpoena Dr. Thompson and investigate fraud at the CDC. Ever.

Vaccine trials are closed. Not open. No one is permitted to hear this evidence. No reports ever show up on the news. 3.7 billion paid out so far and this isn't news, apparently.

No legitimate,double-blind safety trials are ever done on vaccines. There are manipulated studies done - let's compare this vaccine against two other vaccines, and see how they all fare after 5 days...see, it's no worse than they are (maybe all are bad over time - that needs to be studied, before just indiscriminately recommended). There IS no evidence. Simply constant repetition that all vaccines are safe at all times and in all quantities.

That isn't evidence, especially when there is a literal flood of opposing parental evidence, never investigated, just silenced and ridiculed. Not an anecdote or two. Literally thousands of reports over time.

With every other product, if something happens to even a couple of people, the product is pulled from the market and a legitimate investigation is underway. Someone gets sick from lettuce or crackers or some random kitchen item? Product pulled. All the Major Food Recalls of 2018 So Far

Someone gets sick from Tylenol? Product pulled. Tylenol Recalled for Moldy Smell

New MS drug has 8 bad reactions? Product pulled (in EUROPE, where they care about health). Multiple sclerosis drug pulled from market after reports of brain inflammation

Thousands of vaccine reaction reports come rolling in? Well, let's keep that quiet; no need to rock the boat.

If you think this peculiarly disparate treatment of vaccines isn't a problem, I cannot help you. ALL of these scenarios need to be treated in exactly the same way and all investigated thoroughly.

Any time the government and media refuse to address an issue like this, you should be paying attention.
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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RestoreTheJoy

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...and yet in Europe (where they care about health - your words), governments and medical professionals encourage vaccination and have a higher rate of vaccination than Canada.
Encourage. Don't threaten and coerce and force under penalty. As it should be.

Europe is actually quite diverse, with various rates depending upon country.
 
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There's that and there's the double-edged sword in terms of which kind of Chiropractor you pick, a straight or mixer (the types I described previously). While the "straight" chiropractor won't even dabble in anything other than the adjustments (due to believing in Palmer's odd theories) and feel that adjustments are a panacea...many of the "mixers", even though they reject Palmer's "cure all by adjusting" theory, can tend to give some rather damaging advice in other realms depending on the one you go to.

Many of the "mixers" fancy themselves experts on supplementation and nutrition...however, that tends to go down another rabbit hole of pseudoscience as their information is often incredibly flawed.

My dad, to his own detriment, was going to one regularly for a wide variety of issues, everything from his high cholesterol and blood pressure...all the way to wasting 4 months and allowing his melanoma to metastasize instead of seeing a real doctor.

He got advice like "Don't listen to mainstream medicine, they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to nutrition", then proceeded to convince my dad that high cholesterol and more salt are actually good for you and "MD's just don't want you to know that"...he eventually caught on once his serum cholesterol levels were coming back 100 point over their already elevated levels (Go figure, eating salted things fried in coconut oil 3 times a day isn't actually good for you...who knew lol), and the guy had him trying "essential oils" (snake oils) and various herbal supplements for his skin cancer...which ended up getting into his lymph nodes.


Given that I've seen what can potentially happen when pseudoscience is given preference over actual medicine, I spare no words when it comes to swiftly shooting down potentially dangerous concepts.

When it comes to chiropractic, stay away from the "straights" altogether, and if you're going to see a "mixer", you got a 50/50 chance that they'll either be pragmatic about their limitations, or they'll try to sell you oils and marked up supplements at their front desk and make deceptive claims about what their supplements can do.

Straight shooter chiropractors probably aren't going to even try to offer up anything that would replace a MD. They'll stick to making neck, back adjustments, things like that. They'd likely turn away any fool who brought their child with the measles, shingles, etc. to them when medical treatment was needed.

I think one of the problems is that on account of them using "dr" as part of their name, some folks mistakingly think they're on par with actual MDs when that's far from the truth. Again the honest chiropractors wouldn't let that misconception just lie. We've got a chiropractor at our church who is a straight shooter sort of fellow, so they're not all crooked ambulance chasers but it's a shame there are so many in that profession.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Straight shooter chiropractors probably aren't going to even try to offer up anything that would replace a MD. They'll stick to making neck, back adjustments, things like that. They'd likely turn away any fool who brought their child with the measles, shingles, etc. to them when medical treatment was needed.

When you say "straight shooter" you mean just "honest"? Or are you referring to the "straights" I mentioned above? Because the latter actually will try to claim that adjustments not only replace everything an MD can do, but claim that it can do it better.

...and that's not a fringe belief within their profession. If you want a real eye-opener into what a lot of them believe, see if you can find some of the speeches that "Dr." Fred Barge was (arguably the 3rd most prominent Chiro in history, right behind Palmer and his son) giving a speech at Palmer College (the the first & most famous Chiropractic college in the country).

Some of the things he says are pretty wild and crazy...and he says them to a standing ovation from the audience.

Things like "we know subluxation is the root of all human disease" and "the best defense against heart disease is a spine that's free of subluxations!"...he said them like they made complete sense and the audience (which were mainly students getting ready to graduate) were eating it up.


here's one such example...he even goes as far as attacking the other Chiropractors who dare to claim that adjustments might not cure everything.
 
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When you say "straight shooter" you mean just "honest"? Or are you referring to the "straights" I mentioned above? Because the latter actually will try to claim that adjustments not only replace everything an MD can do, but claim that it can do it better.

...and that's not a fringe belief within their profession. If you want a real eye-opener into what a lot of them believe, see if you can find some of the speeches that "Dr." Fred Barge was (arguably the 3rd most prominent Chiro in history, right behind Palmer and his son) giving a speech at Palmer College (the the first & most famous Chiropractic college in the country).

Some of the things he says are pretty wild and crazy...and he says them to a standing ovation from the audience.

Things like "we know subluxation is the root of all human disease" and "the best defense against heart disease is a spine that's free of subluxations!"...he said them like they made complete sense and the audience (which were mainly students getting ready to graduate) were eating it up.


here's one such example...he even goes as far as attacking the other Chiropractors who dare to claim that adjustments might not cure everything.

Yes. Straight shooter is Southern for honest, lol. By that I mean somebody who is straightforward, not pretending to be what they're not (as in acting like a MD), not trying to do what they shouldn't, not selling any horse manure to gullible folks. It's good that the honest chiros speak out about the dishonest ones.
 
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loveofourlord

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I would say better off not going to a chiropractor period, even the so called straights, you risk dealing with the lethal quackery, and even if not, your better off going to a real doctor, or a phisiotherapist that is more qualified.
 
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I would say better off not going to a chiropractor period, even the so called straights, you risk dealing with the lethal quackery, and even if not, your better off going to a real doctor, or a phisiotherapist that is more qualified.

Oh I agree with you on that fully. There's no doubt in my mind that you're better off seeing a physiotherapist or a real doctor. No doubt. I want to be real clear that I wasn't in any way promoting chiropractors. Like I posted earlier on, folks have been gravely injured by them, lost their eyesight, all sorts of awful. Now I do think there's a few decent folks out there who are chiropractors, that they're not all just crooked quacks, but still, heck no would I ever say they'd be the go-to. Shoot I don't think they're even good as the last resort. I don't think they should ever work on minors. Now if adults want to see them, well they can do that. They can go get their palms read to figure out how to make major life decisions too if they please. The real problem as it pertains to this discussion right here is with parents who take their kids to chiropractors. An anti-vaxxer here brought up chiropractors & naturopaths. We'd been talking about her having had shingles as a child. I sure as heck hope her parents hadn't taken her to a chiropractor then, but who knows.

I can't even put into words how foolish I think it is to see a chiropractor in place of medical care. It's not just foolish it's flat-out wrong for a parent to do that to a child.
 
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Sam91

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ThatRobGuy

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The real problem as it pertains to this discussion right here is with parents who take their kids to chiropractors. An anti-vaxxer here brought up chiropractors & naturopaths. We'd been talking about her having had shingles as a child. I sure as heck hope her parents hadn't taken her to a chiropractor then, but who knows.

I can't even put into words how foolish I think it is to see a chiropractor in place of medical care. It's not just foolish it's flat-out wrong for a parent to do that to a child.

Chiropractic and Naturopathic practitioners seems to have a larger following in the southern (more right-leaning evangelical) areas of the country, and it's not hard to see why.

If you listen to their philosophy and "sales pitch", it's something that would definitely appeal to many young earth creationists.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Chiropractic and Naturopathic practitioners seems to have a larger following in the southern (more right-leaning evangelical) areas of the country, and it's not hard to see why.

If you listen to their philosophy and "sales pitch", it's something that would definitely appeal to many young earth creationists.
Lots of mockery in one short statement paragraph. Why so hostile?

Perhaps the truth is that since those areas tend to have worse health care than Americans overall, they are more open to seeking options. The States With the Worst Healthcare Systems - The Atlantic
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Lots of mockery in one short statement paragraph. Why so hostile?

Perhaps the truth is that since those areas tend to have worse health care than Americans overall, they are more open to seeking options. The States With the Worst Healthcare Systems - The Atlantic

It's not mockery, it's statistical and observable truth.

If you watch videos from the Dr. Axe channel, he blatantly says things to pander to young earth creationists.

When he promotes things like the "The Biblio Diet"...which is just the paleo diet that he's renamed because "I don't want to give a nod to the theory of evolution", his words, not mine, and people start commenting right away saying "this is why I trust this man so much, he knows we didn't come from apes", it's pretty clear that he's using a specific marketing approach.
 
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Chiropractic and Naturopathic practitioners seems to have a larger following in the southern (more right-leaning evangelical) areas of the country, and it's not hard to see why.

If you listen to their philosophy and "sales pitch", it's something that would definitely appeal to many young earth creationists.

I'm not sure about that, to tell you the truth. I was born & bred in the South and most folks I know think of chiropractors as being ambulance chasing quacks. Now like I said before there's exceptions to nearly every rule & there are some who are honest in the profession. The honest ones would show a mama that brought in a kid with the measles or shingles the door & instruct her to get proper medical care right then. He'd feel feel sorry for her ignorance. The crooks would just give the kid an adjustment or something, take the money, let the kid continue to suffer & contaminate other kids. There's obviously plenty of well to do folks in the South but there's a lot who are in more humble circumstances & on account of that get mighty resentful at being conned into expensive & unhelpful things like chiropractor adjustments.

I know lots of folks in the South who are young earth creationists but most of them haven't got a clue that's even what it's called. They're just older folks & back when they were growing up they were taught the earth was 5000 years old. That's all. They had too much on their plates to bother caring otherwise. Those folks are not anti-vaxxer on account of them having lived through polio, measles & mumps, all that. You had better believe they are wanting their own grandkids to get vaccines & wouldn't stand for any of that anti-vaxxer selfishness. Now I do think you're right that the folks who really do call themselves young earth creationists, invest themselves much into that way of thinking, they probably would be more likely to be anti-vaxxer.

I'd think the liberal hippy areas that think you can prevent measles by eating organic broccoli or drinking a detox smoothie or some other sort of idiocy would be more prone to fall for the naturopaths & chiropractors regardless of religious belief. I think there's probably an overlap of the folks who believe in 'holistic' everything & organic everything, the ban GMO types & not vaccinating. I remember a gal here from Cali saying that 1 of the reasons for that vaccine law for school was on account of that. They had a private expensive school that was all vegan, the meat is murder folks, who had low vaccine rates.

There probably are some younger folks who fall into all the categories - young earth creationist, natural-everything, into chiropractors & naturopaths & also anti vaxxer. I just personally don't know any of Southerners who are. Doesn't mean there aren't any of course.
 
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