US Health System Scorecard - 2022

[Occams Barber]

Your government (and mine) needs to get a grip on the processed food industries. They are killing us.

I have just read that 60% of the British diet is ultra-processed. It is true that we should all be paying much more attention to what we put in our bodies. Our representatives in the legislatures should be on our side in this. Instead they are nicely tucked up under the duvet with Big Food.

Who is the 'you' in 'your government'.

I'm not British or American.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

Your government (and mine) needs to get a grip on the processed food industries. They are killing us.

I have just read that 60% of the British diet is ultra-processed. It is true that we should all be paying much more attention to what we put in our bodies. Our representatives in the legislatures should be on our side in this. Instead they are nicely tucked up under the duvet with Big Food.

I agree. Although I baulk at the term 'Big Food'. We are all knowledgeable enough about the way we live to know that eating Mackers or KFC every day and nothing else will eventually kill you. We can't legislate against fast food. Education is the name of the game.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I agree. Although I baulk at the term 'Big Food'. We are all knowledgeable enough about the way we live to know that eating Mackers or KFC every day and nothing else will eventually kill you. We can't legislate against fast food. Education is the name of the game.

Education is part of it (especially for young people).

But for the majority of adults (especially adults here in the US), I don't think the issue is a "lack of information one", but rather lack of self-control, or just flat out not caring.

If you look at how certain other countries view the situation, there seems to be the awareness that "hey, everyone here is chipping in for our public healthcare, I owe it to my fellow citizens to not be a burden", I don't think that level of social responsibility exists here unfortunately.


Now, one particular caveat to that...is that there's actually quite a bit of conflicting nutritional information about "what's the best diet". Not in the sense of things like outright junk food and fast food, all of the various "diet evangelists" seem to be in agreement on the fact that a Big Mac & Fries is bad for you....but more in terms of "Vegan/Vegetarian/Paleo/Atkins/Mediterranean" diets.

So one "nutrition expert" is telling people to eat copious amounts of meat and avoid carbs and starchy vegetables at all costs. Another is telling people to avoid meat as much as they can and eat a high-carb diet rich in grains. Another is saying meat is okay as long as it's fish... others are going with a "If it fits your macros", the list goes on.

So I could see where that would get confusing for people...however, I have my doubts as to whether or not that's an obesity driver as a lot of the "I don't care, I just want pizza" types probably aren't strictly following any of the aforementioned diets.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

2) you can't outspend a poor diet.

But thanks to disinformation we have debate over what a healthy diet is.

 

[Whyayeman]

Who is the 'you' in 'your government'.

I'm not British or American.

OB

I have edited. I was addressing Americans as their medical system gives the worst value for money.

Nutrition is certainly part of the issue but the enormous cost of even basic health-care for Americans needs to be discussed. I am told that the first question health professionals ask a patient is 'How will you be paying?' I would be pleased to be put right on this!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

But thanks to disinformation we have debate over what a healthy diet is.

While there are conflicts among the various "nutritional factions", they all seem to be in agreement on the aspects that are causing most of problems (regarding fast food and junk food).

I'm not aware of any medical or nutritional discipline (mainstream or alternative) suggesting that fast food is good for you.

Pretty sure you could go to the ones rooted in quackery, and they'd still likely tell you "Yeah, 4 slices of a pizza, 48oz of Pepsi, and 6 Reese's cups for dessert isn't a healthy meal"

 

[SimplyMe]

I have edited. I was addressing Americans as their medical system gives the worst value for money.

Nutrition is certainly part of the issue but the enormous cost of even basic health-care for Americans needs to be discussed. I am told that the first question health professionals ask a patient is 'How will you be paying?' I would be pleased to be put right on this!

Not to mention, often the first question asked when trying to find a doctor is, "Do you take 'X' insurance?"

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I have edited. I was addressing Americans as their medical system gives the worst value for money.

Nutrition is certainly part of the issue but the enormous cost of even basic health-care for Americans needs to be discussed. I am told that the first question health professionals ask a patient is 'How will you be paying?' I would be pleased to be put right on this!

Overall, I'd agree. For the most common ailments that people would routinely see a doctor for or need and ER for, the "value for the hassle" is quite low.

For specific facets, we actually do really well (for instance, 5-year survival rates for certain types of cancer, and having the latest and greatest technology for certain cardiac medical care)

Granted, you have to live in close proximity to where those specialized services are offered. I'm fortunate enough to live in Northeast Ohio. Where (and I don't know the reason this came to be for a city like Cleveland) we have 3 globally ranked hospital systems with expansive networks all throughout the area, and their processes are quite streamlined. No matter where you live in Northeast Ohio, you can be to a Cleveland Clinic facility pretty quickly.

I've heard the dynamic described as "If you've broken your ankle, have a sinus infection, need your gall bladder removed, or just need a routine check-up, you're better of in a single-payer country...if you need heart surgery or cancer treatment, you want to be in the US (provided you have insurance) to have the best chance of survival"

Which, ironically enough, given the poor nutrition habits, the need for things like heart disease treatment and cancer treatment are higher here in the US.

 

[SimplyMe]

Overall, I'd agree. For the most common ailments that people would routinely see a doctor for or need and ER for, the "value for the hassle" is quite low.

For specific facets, we actually do really well (for instance, 5-year survival rates for certain types of cancer, and having the latest and greatest technology for certain cardiac medical care)

Granted, you have to live in close proximity to where those specialized services are offered. I'm fortunate enough to live in Northeast Ohio. Where (and I don't know the reason this came to be for a city like Cleveland) we have 3 globally ranked hospital systems with expansive networks all throughout the area, and their processes are quite streamlined. No matter where you live in Northeast Ohio, you can be to a Cleveland Clinic facility pretty quickly.

I've heard the dynamic described as "If you've broken your ankle, have a sinus infection, need your gall bladder removed, or just need a routine check-up, you're better of in a single-payer country...if you need heart surgery or cancer treatment, you want to be in the US (provided you have insurance) to have the best chance of survival"

Which, ironically enough, given the poor nutrition habits, the need for things like heart disease treatment and cancer treatment are higher here in the US.

Though, to be clear, not all cancer treatments. A few years ago (may have been as long as a decade), I seem to recall a couple of celebrities who traveled to Germany for their cancer treatments. Off the top of my head, one was Farrah Fawcett and I believe there was a second in that time frame -- and another one more recently was Eddie Van Halen.

 

[Whyayeman]

For specific facets, we actually do really well (for instance, 5-year survival rates for certain types of cancer, and having the latest and greatest technology for certain cardiac medical care)

Yes, in high-tech medicine for those who have the insurance America undoubtedly leads the world.

I think it is likely that the relatively low life-expectation of Americans (among the shortest lived people in the advanced world) is mainly to do with the lack of availability for a significant proportion of the population to access anything but basic medical resources. Living in a country with the very latest medical gismos is no use if you have no access.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Though, to be clear, not all cancer treatments. A few years ago (may have been as long as a decade), I seem to recall a couple of celebrities who traveled to Germany for their cancer treatments. Off the top of my head, one was Farrah Fawcett and I believe there was a second in that time frame -- and another one more recently was Eddie Van Halen.

Also to be clear, Farrah Fawcett and Eddie Van Halen both went abroad for cancer treatment looking "alternative cures".

People with money are the prime "marks" for "holistic/alternative" practices who make grandiose claims along the lines of "we have the cures the mainstream medical practitioners and big pharma don't want you to know about"

The Mystery Behind Alternative Cancer Treatment

Is this a last-ditch attempt for a cure?

abcnews.go.com

This article actually mentions Farrah's "journey".

Remember when Charlie Sheen thought that "Dr" Chachoua had a magical cure for HIV? ...and then later went back on the conventional drug cocktail after realizing the guy was a fraud.

As the tongue-in-cheek saying goes "You know what they call alternative medicine after it's been proven to work? Medicine" There are still clinics that people with money frequent in Mexico that are marketing a completely made-up vitamin... "Vitamin B-17" which isn't even a real vitamin, it's a form of cyanide that a guy named Ernst T. Krebs made in his garage and swindled a lot of people in the process.