Canabis ect.

[Andrea77]

This kind of thinking potentially leads to this kind of behavior.


http://www.theday.com/eng/web/news/re.aspx?re=613e8993-2f80-440c-931c-6795314efc68

I dont hate wiccans I love them as human beings I have a friends who is are into wicca allthough I dont agree with there beliefe I dont hate them. They are people with feelings and hearts.

 

[Cat59]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved from GA due to rule 4.2 of CF.

4.2 You will restrict any posts relating to the following controversial topics to the Philosophy & Morality, Liberal Theology or Christian Philosophy forums...

a. drug use.



MOD HAT OFF

 

[iglesia]

Andrea,

Do you support freedom of religion? If a religion uses marijuana as a spiritual rite, should it be allowed to do so? Morally, if not legally?

I am not Andrea, but I will throw in my thoughts anyway.

Freedom of religion, at least in the US, has generally been confined to practices which are otherwise legal. Although there have been legislatively created exceptions (such as conscientious objector laws and laws allowing use of wine for religious observances during prohibition), the general idea of religious freedom does not generally allow a person to use their religion as an excuse to violate an otherwise valid law.

Whether this is right or wrong is another discussion, one that I think is somewhat complex. In short, I would say that if "religious freedom" were so expanded, the rule of law would cease to have meaning. How do we determine what a religion is for the purpose of granting exceptions to the law? How do we keep people from making up religions so that they can escape the law? I am sure that this could be a basis for a much longer discussion, but those are a couple of quick thoughts on the issue.

 

[nvxplorer]

I am not Andrea, but I will throw in my thoughts anyway.

Freedom of religion, at least in the US, has generally been confined to practices which are otherwise legal. Although there have been legislatively created exceptions (such as conscientious objector laws and laws allowing use of wine for religious observances during prohibition), the general idea of religious freedom does not generally allow a person to use their religion as an excuse to violate an otherwise valid law.

Marijuana use was legal until 1937. If a religion had used it prior the Marijana Tax Act, a religious rite had effectively been outlawed. In such a case, I would view the law as impinging on freedom of religion.

Whether this is right or wrong is another discussion, one that I think is somewhat complex. In short, I would say that if "religious freedom" were so expanded, the rule of law would cease to have meaning. How do we determine what a religion is for the purpose of granting exceptions to the law? How do we keep people from making up religions so that they can escape the law? I am sure that this could be a basis for a much longer discussion, but those are a couple of quick thoughts on the issue.

The law is based on constitutional rights, therefore, any religious practice that did not violate the rights of others should be allowed. While certain drug laws may not be unconstitutional, they clearly violate the Declaration's clause, "...liberty and happiness." This is another topic altogether.

 

[iglesia]

Marijuana use was legal until 1937. If a religion had used it prior the Marijana Tax Act, a religious rite had effectively been outlawed. In such a case, I would view the law as impinging on freedom of religion.


The law is based on constitutional rights, therefore, any religious practice that did not violate the rights of others should be allowed. While certain drug laws may not be unconstitutional, they clearly violate the Declaration's clause, "...liberty and happiness." This is another topic altogether.

Your points are valid and well taken. This is actually a pretty complicated issue that I have struggled with myself. I agree with you that if one is a member of a religious group that used marijuana prior to its criminalization, then there should be an exception made. Unfortunately, the courts in ths US have not generally interpreted the 1st Amendment that way. A clear example of this has been the application of child abuse/neglect statutes on Christian Scientists and Jehova's Witnesses among others. Both of these religions existed before there were statutes requiring parents to provide medical care to their children. However, courts have usually held that members of these religions can still be convicted under child abuse statutes for following their religious beliefs. Whether this is right, I do not really know, but it is the way it is.

As for your second point, I think it is legitmately up for debate whether marijuana use violates the rights of others.

I have to leave work right now, but I will be happy to finish my thoughts on this when I get home. I'd appreciate your comments.

God Bless.

 

[one love]

The Bible says do not get drunk but does not forbid drinking as long as you don't get tanked.

A little alcohol (til your tipsy) can't really have that big of a an effect on your mind.

Depends on defintion. I can get high, but then again I can get high..er, and then higher somemore and then more and more. Because it won't kill me I'll eventually pass out after about the 15th bowl by myself.

Some religions do use drugs to get closer to god. In parts of Nepal once a year, the people chief cannabis for an entire day out of respect for their religion. You should study more of what you claimed in your OP.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html

The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew "kaneh-bosm" B, extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil

 

[one love]

Marijuana use was legal until 1937. If a religion had used it prior the Marijana Tax Act, a religious rite had effectively been outlawed. In such a case, I would view the law as impinging on freedom of religion.

Sorry, but some religions practiced human sacrifice, cannabilism, etc. Whatever happened to the rights of people?

The law is based on constitutional rights, therefore, any religious practice that did not violate the rights of others should be allowed. While certain drug laws may not be unconstitutional, they clearly violate the Declaration's clause, "...liberty and happiness." This is another topic altogether.

The Harrison Tax act made it nearly impossible for doctors to perscribe cannabis and oppiates, it wasn't until Nixon that it became illegal.

 

[Lucasinvictus]

Some religions do use drugs to get closer to god. In parts of Nepal once a year, the people chief cannabis for an entire day out of respect for their religion. You should study more of what you claimed in your OP.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/back...c11/christ.html

Quote:

The ancient recipe for this anointing oil, recorded in the Old Testament book of Exodus (30: 22-23) included over nine pounds of flowering cannabis tops, Hebrew "kaneh-bosm" B, extracted into a hind (about 6.5 litres) of olive oil, along with a variety of other herbs and spices. The ancient chosen ones were literally drenched in this potent cannabis holy oil

... i woulndt go there if i were you..lol. my thread got deleted for posting that..

 

[nvxplorer]

Sorry, but some religions practiced human sacrifice, cannabilism, etc. Whatever happened to the rights of people?

I dealt with this in the second part of my post. It is quite elementary to separate practices which violate rights and those that don't. A group of people smoking marijuana or taking peyote in a religious ceremony does not violate anyone's rights. Killing humans is not a valid analogy.

 

[In A Perfect World]

I read the thread my husband was a satanist and He says that wicca leads to satan worship but a lot of Wiccans don't even know this just like a lot of Catholics do not know that there beliefs are not Biblical but babylonian

Jesus said the truth shall set you free.

Please read the Bible.

Rome = Babylon? Sources please.

 

[In A Perfect World]

first of all, THC is not lethal. Second of all, alcohol IS a drug whether you want to believe it or not. Caffeine is also a drug. Third of all, Wicca =/ Satanism. They are two different religion/philosophies. Fourth of all, there is a possibility that Jesus was exposed to marijuana, possibly used it, or possibilty had clothes made from hemp. Would this change your opinion on the topic?

 

[Cerberus~]

Have you ever seen a Atom ?

No, but what simularity can you make that I haven't allready shot down?

 

[Andrea77]

No, but what simularity can you make that I haven't allready shot down?

????

 

[John812]

Ok. Why is it wrong. Who is hurt by a joint?

Mostly the person who smokes it. The effects cannabis has are almost all negative - slows your mind, damages lungs and any other area that is exposed to smoke, damages memory. Sometimes other people are affected, like a young family member who finds out his dad or brother smoke it and that influences them to try it, perhaps turning into all out potheads.

Is there any good reason to believe why it's wrong to use an all-natural, God-given plant?

Some plants can kill you, and they are all-natural also. Plants should be used wisely.


God bless ya!

 

[e=mv^2]

Just saw this thread. I have to make a few comments.

δειλοις δε και απιστοις και εβδελυγμενοις και φονευσιν και πορνοις και φαρμακευσιν και ειδωλολατραις και πασιν τοις ψευδεσιν το μερος αυτων εν τη λιμνη τη καιομενη πυρι και θειω ο εστιν δευτερος θανατος
(Revelation of John 21:8, TR)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
(Revelation of John 21:8, KJV)

According to W.E. Vine’s expository dictionary of New Testament Words (page 1074), the word SORCERY comes from a Greek word, PHARMAKIA - used as a noun, it “signifies a sorcerer,” one who uses drugs, potions, spells, enchantments, as in Rev. 21:8.

The word used in this verse is not PHARMAKIA The word is
φαρμακευσιν

Strongs:

Pharmakeus from the word Pharmakon - a drug ie. a spell giving potion; a druggist; or a poisoner, i.e. (by extentsion) a magician:~sorcerer.

So unless you are willing to include the local pharmacist in your condemnation then I suggest you rethink your argument. While this word does have a couple of different definitions - the one that was intended was clear. Is it the local CVS pharmacy that was wrong or was it someone that was selling potions to imbue the user with a spell that is the abomination? Notice that the definition does not refer to a user of drugs but the actual druggist - the one CREATING the drug/potion/poison.

Assume that it does refer to drugs. Asprin sends you to hell? Tylenol defiles your soul?

Here are the words of Christ himself - the emphasis is mine:

" 14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, "Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: " 15 "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. " 16 "If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. " 17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. 18 And he saith unto them, "Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; " 19 "Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? " 20 And he said, "That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. " 21 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, " 22 "Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: " 23 "All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Nothing that enters from without can defile a man. These are the words of Christ. Yet you would say that Cannabis that enters a man defiles him. Who is wrong?

The very beginning:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
(Genesis 1:29, KJV)

All seed bearing herbs are for us as meat. You can eat cannabis. This is a direct permission giving statement.

The word Cana is related to the word Cannabis. Guess what? Cannabis was well known and was used in biblical times yet three is no direct reference to it being a bad thing. Drunkeness is directly addressed.

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

So... what is it? Is it the witch that brews potions to give the user superhuman powers granted by the spirits or is it your local drugstore? What is it that comes out of the heart?

 

[Cerberus~]

Mostly the person who smokes it. The effects cannabis has are almost all negative -

Not true. Pot has it's negatives, as with cigarettes, liquor and even chocolate.

slows your mind,

Weed affects everyone differently. If all it did was slow my mind, I wouldn't be smoking it.

damages lungs and any other area that is exposed to smoke,

But not nearly to the degree that cigarettes do.

damages memory.

It affects your short term memory. It's not it goes though and deletes every Christmas and b-day you've had.

Sometimes other people are affected, like a young family member who finds out his dad or brother smoke it and that influences them to try it, perhaps turning into all out potheads.

Funny, that how I started smoking. But drugs should only be used responsibly. I personally have never and would never smoke in front of a child. Just like I wouldn't get drunk in front of a child.

 

[Cerberus~]

????

Where you actually going to make a point with the atoms, or what?

 

[e=mv^2]

The effects cannabis has are almost all negative

Ralaxation, lowered blood pressure, lowered pulse rate. lowered inner eye pressure - negative effects? I would argue that alomost all the effects are beneficial.

damages lungs and any other area that is exposed to smoke,

Trying to compare cannabis to tobacco is not going to get you anywhere. There s simply no comparison.

[font=verdana, geneva, tahoma, arial]Myth #9: Marijuana is more damaging to the lungs than tobacco.[/font]

• [font=verdana, geneva, tahoma, arial][size=-1] Fact #1 Moderate smoking of marijuana appears to pose minimal danger to the lungs.[/size][/font]

At any rate that is irrelevant. The question is whether using cannabis is a sin or not.
[font=verdana, geneva, tahoma, arial][size=-1]
[/size][/font]

 

[Andrea77]

Where you actually going to make a point with the atoms, or what?

The point is you have never seen an Atom but you believe in them.

I have never seen Jesus Christ but I believe in Him.

You have faith in something you have never seen, so do I.

 

[In A Perfect World]

The point is you have never seen an Atom but you believe in them.

I have never seen Jesus Christ but I believe in Him.

You have faith in something you have never seen, so do I.

Ahh... so microscopes don't count?