Can you lose your salvation?

aiki · Nov 19, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
Your confusing OSAS with faith alone. Faith alone means we are not saved by our works but by having faith in what Jesus did on the cross. OSAS means a person cannot turn away from God once they have received the Holy Spirit but the Bible warns us not to quench or stifle the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 6:4 is one example.

I've never thought of OSAS in the way you define it here. It isn't that the believer is unable to turn away from God, but that God will not turn away from them.

Hebrews 6:4 describes a false convert, I believe, not a genuinely born-again person.

BNR32FAN said:
Our salvation is contingent on continuing in our faith. It is not a one time event. We must endure to the end to receive salvation. No one receives salvation until they die or judgement day comes.

A birth (physical or spiritual) is very definitely a one-time event. This is evident in the way the writers of the epistles refer to the salvation of the Christians to whom they are writing as a past accomplished fact.

Our salvation is contingent upon Christ, not us. Our faith doesn't make us acceptable to God; it is Christ's imputed righteousness - and only his righteousness - that makes us acceptable to God.

We must endure to the end, yes. But we will do so because we are indwelt by the Spirit of the Living God. He causes us to persevere; it is his work in us that brings us successfully to the end, not our capacity to stick it out with God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-25
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Salvation is ours the moment we trust in Christ as our Saviour and Lord. It does not remain an uncertain, future event so long as we live.

1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

aiki · Nov 19, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
Let’s say your standing in God’s hand. Yes no one can’t take you away but there’s nothing stopping you from jumping out yourself. Do you believe we lose our free will when we receive the Holy Spirit? Do we then lose our ability to choose to turn away from God?

But God's fidelity to us is not contingent upon our fidelity to Him. He accepts us because of Christ, not because of our success in living right. And since Christ is always accepted by God, we who are in him are also always accepted by God. It matters not, then, what I may do, but what Christ has done. He has secured my salvation, not me.

Does a child who rebels furiously against his father, who may even run away, cease to be his father's son? No. So, too, we who are God's children may rebel and even try to run away from Him but our status as His children cannot be dissolved. No one can snatch me out of His hand. Not even me.

DM25 · Nov 19, 2018

No. A true born again Christian can't lose their salvation. How can you unknow what you know? It just doesn't make any sense. Anyone who is truly saved and born again knows Jesus is real with all their heart, that faith can't just go away and if it does, then they were never genuinely saved to begin with. "They were never of us". Someone with a changed heart and who is a new person can't just decide to forfeit their salvation, they are new creations! I don't know why people teach you can lose salvation, just seems like fear mongering and it's not even biblical. But at any rate, we as born-again Christians can all be assured we are sealed with the holy spirit and with him for eternity. We will always be saved.

BNR32FAN · Nov 19, 2018

aiki said:
I've never thought of OSAS in the way you define it here. It isn't that the believer is unable to turn away from God, but that God will not turn away from them.

Hebrews 6:4 describes a false convert, I believe, not a genuinely born-again person.

A birth (physical or spiritual) is very definitely a one-time event. This is evident in the way the writers of the epistles refer to the salvation of the Christians to whom they are writing as a past accomplished fact.

Our salvation is contingent upon Christ, not us. Our faith doesn't make us acceptable to God; it is Christ's imputed righteousness - and only his righteousness - that makes us acceptable to God.

We must endure to the end, yes. But we will do so because we are indwelt by the Spirit of the Living God. He causes us to persevere; it is his work in us that brings us successfully to the end, not our capacity to stick it out with God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-25
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.

Philippians 1:6
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Salvation is ours the moment we trust in Christ as our Saviour and Lord. It does not remain an uncertain, future event so long as we live.

1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

God bless you my friend. I pray that He will work in both of us to understand His word the way He intended. I don’t want to engage in this discussion any further for fear that I may appear argumentative. I think we have both made our points and it is probably best that we just pray that the Holy Spirit will guide us in our walk.

Reborn1977 · Nov 20, 2018

Neostarwcc said:
Can a true born again Christian EVER lose their salvation? Is there a point in which a Christian can sin in which they can actually lose their salvation? What about falling away? And other ways people claim you can lose your salvation? Why or why not?

A person cannot lose their salvation, Jesus has secured that for them, they can, however, abandon or renounce their faith and thus walk away from their salvation – this is a form of apostasy, and in the truest sense does not happen very often.

Nelson’s new illustrated Bible Dictionary defines “apostasy” as:
APOSTASY — a falling away from the faith.[1]

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary Defines “apostasy” as:
1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty

[1] Youngblood, R. F., Bruce, F. F., & Harrison, R. K., Thomas Nelson Publishers (Eds.). (1995). In Nelson’s new illustrated Bible dictionary. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson, Inc.

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

mark kennedy said:
No your tactics without anything remotely Scriptural are poison. I've watched your posts reduce themselves to ad hominem taunts and it's telling me something about why your here. It has nothing to do with Scripture, your just playing a little game, you have nothing but fallacious rhetoric now, game over.

You have not provided Scriptural counter-argument but that is certainly your prerogative to not do so.

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

aiki said:
Just to be clear: you're deflecting here. But, in any case, it is a prominent teaching of Christ that in order to be one of his "sheep" one must hear his "voice," the voice of the Saviour (expressed to us in the Gospel) and follow him. This is the Gospel in a nutshell. What Jesus says in verse 27 is not the conditions for remaining a "sheep" (aka - remaining saved) but the means by which one is saved (or, becomes one of Christ's sheep). And those who become Christ's sheep by hearing and following him are inextricably kept by him. I don't, then, see any ground in John 10:27 for arguing that Christ was teaching a saved-and-lost or works-salvation doctrine.

The Greek verb tenses in v.27 are in the present tense. Thus a sheep must go on "listening" as well as go on "following" = ongoing obedience to God in order to have eternal life. These verb tenses thus do not refer to a one-time moment of belief in Christ as when one first trusted in the Lord at conversion as the verse is not rendered in the aorist tense.
If believers are "inextricably kept by him" as you claim, then why do so many scriptures such as Col 1:23 contain "if clauses?" "If" is a word that indicates possibility; not certainty. "If you continue in your faith...is indicative of the possibility that a saved person may not continue in the faith thus making your "inextricably kept by him" claim questionable.

BCsenior · Nov 22, 2018

DM25 said:
No. A true born again Christian can't lose their salvation.

But, it's not what you believe and know!
It is, for example ...
about NOT being a habitual unrepentant sinner!

The believer has his part to play in his salvation.

Do you need to see all of the many NT verses
which teach us that SALVATION IS A PROCESS.
And the believer can choose to reject that difficult process ... like, for example, try taking the mark of
the beast (later) and see what happens to you!
The Lake of Fire happens to you! (Rev 13 and 14).

BCsenior · Nov 22, 2018

Oldmantook said:
The Greek verb tenses in v.27 are in the present tense. Thus a sheep must go on "listening" as well as go on "following" = ongoing obedience to God in order to have eternal life. These verb tenses thus do not refer to a one-time moment of belief in Christ ...

Unfortunately, this problem exists with English translations (maybe in most languages?)
in several NT passages.

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

BCsenior said:
Unfortunately, this problem exists with English translations (maybe in most languages?) in several NT passages.

That is true as to this day, I still don't understand why most English translations do not accurately parse the verb tenses. Another verse would be the popular John 3:16 where "believe" should be "believing." One must continue believing in order to have eternal life. The best Bible translations which pay more attention to the verb tenses that I've found are Young's Literal Translation and the Berean Literal Bible.

MDC · Nov 22, 2018

BCsenior said:
But, it's not what you believe and know!
It is, for example ...
about NOT being a habitual unrepentant sinner!

The believer has his part to play in his salvation.

Do you need to see all of the many NT verses
which teach us that SALVATION IS A PROCESS.
And the believer can choose to reject that difficult process ... like, for example, try taking the mark of
the beast (later) and see what happens to you!
The Lake of Fire happens to you! (Rev 13 and 14).

A believer can reject Christ and lose his salvation is a contradiction in terms. That person shows himself as an unbeliever and a tare among wheat. Not a believer. The fruit is obvious. A “believer” who rejects Christ makes no sense. The elect are kept by Gods power in Christ and will endure to the end by faith. Working to stay saved and keep what you didn’t earn to begin with also makes no sense. This belief also bears the fruit of unbelief and a rejection of the gospel of Christ

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

MDC said:
Christ and His righteousness justifies and saves. By the obedience of ONE many shall be made righteous. Romans 5:19. If YOUR obedience is required, then Christ died in vain. And you seeking to be justified by the law, make void the cross. Galatians 2:21. This is exactly your message and anyone teaching that eternal life is lost in Christ by lack of meritorious works of men. A repentant heart of obedience that springs from faith, is the result of being saved in Christ by Gods Sovereign grace. It is mere fruit of a believer. Not the foundation by which we are saved or stay saved. Christ is the anchor and foundation of our faith. This message being espoused by those who teach loss of salvation by self righteous works of men, proves only one thing, there is no faith in the gospel of Christ

No, Christ died so that upon conversion, you are able to obey. While you were still a sinner, it was impossible for you (and me) to obey. God's grace turned you into a new creation which now makes it possible for you to choose to live according to the Spirit instead of choosing to live according to the flesh. Paul warned that if you or I choose to live according to the flesh, we will die (Rom 8:13).

MDC · Nov 22, 2018

Oldmantook said:
No, Christ died so that upon conversion, you are able to obey. While you were still a sinner, it was impossible for you (and me) to obey. God's grace turned you into a new creation which now makes it possible for you to choose to live according to the Spirit instead of choosing to live according to the flesh. Paul warned that if you or I choose to live according to the flesh, we will die (Rom 8:13).

Lol oh ok so Christ died so that you might be able to work for your salvation! Void of faith and nullifies the gospel of Christ still. The stench of our sin is ever before us.. flee to Christ for mercy

BCsenior · Nov 22, 2018

Oldmantook said:
That is true as to this day, I still don't understand why most English translations do not accurately parse the verb tenses. Another verse would be the popular John 3:16 where "believe" should be "believing." One must continue believing in order to have eternal life. The best Bible translations which pay more attention to the verb tenses that I've found are Young's Literal Translation and the Berean Literal Bible.

Yes, indeed.
One guy who seems to know Greek tried to persuade me that John 3:16 did NOT have any continuing present tense verbs!
Perhaps, this is to his personal liking!
I don't know.

BCsenior · Nov 22, 2018

MDC said:
Lol oh ok so Christ died so that you might be able to work for your salvation! Void of faith and nullifies the gospel of Christ still. The stench of our sin is ever before us.. flee to Christ for mercy

What about our having a God-given free will
don't you like?

For me, it is obvious ...
NO free will to choose salvation,
but lots of free will AFTER salvation!

Sorry to hear that you're a robot with no free will.
Because I actually taught I wuz talkin' to a real person.
Oh well, deceived again!

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
This doesn’t answer the question I asked.

You said Jesus is only interested in those sheep that listen and follow in obedience.

My verse showed that Jesus goes after lost sheep. That He will leave His sheep that listen and follow and go after the one lost one.

Study Luke 15:1-7. It is true that the shepherd seeks after the lost sheep. However, notice that the one lost sheep was originally a part of the other 99 "persons who need no repentance" v.7. In other words, this lost sheep was originally a believer/saved person - who needed to repentance. This person then became lost and is referred to as a "sinner" v.7. This lost sinner now needs to repent and when he does so, heaven rejoices. This passage in no way applies to someone who was never saved. It also does not imply that a sheep will always repent and return to the flock either.

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

MDC said:
Lol oh ok so Christ died so that you might be able to work for your salvation! Void of faith and nullifies the gospel of Christ still. The stench of our sin is ever before us.. flee to Christ for mercy

You conveniently ignore the verse which states work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You ignore the verse that states those who practice righteousness are righteous. You ignore the verse that states we are justified by works and not by faith alone. You ignore that in Revelation, Jesus judges those in the 7 churches by their works, or lack thereof. There is much that you ignore.

BCsenior · Nov 22, 2018

Oldmantook said:
Study Luke 15:1-7. It is true that the shepherd seeks after the lost sheep. However, notice that the one lost sheep was originally a part of the other 99 "persons who need no repentance" v.7. In other words, this lost sheep was originally a believer/saved person - who needed to repentance. This person then became lost and is referred to as a "sinner" v.7. This lost sinner now needs to repent and when he does so, heaven rejoices. This passage in no way applies to someone who was never saved. It also does not imply that a sheep will always repent and return to the flock either.

Yes, there are NO just persons among the unsaved!
One BAC needed to repent and come home!
And the other 99 BACs needed no repentance!
Somehow I was blind to this before.
Thanks so much for sharing this about
the parable of the lost sheep (Luke 15:4-7).

Oldmantook · Nov 22, 2018

BCsenior said:
Yes, there are NO just persons among the unsaved!
One BAC needed to repent and come home!
And the other 99 BACs needed no repentance!
Somehow I was blind to this before.
Thanks so much for sharing this
about the parable of the lost sheep.

Yes this series of 3 parables is critical to Jesus' teaching that a saved person can indeed become a lost sinner and needs to repent. Also note that in the case of the prodigal son, Jesus twice repeats for emphasis in vs. 24 & 32 that the prodigal was dead and made alive AGAIN. The only way someone can be made alive again is to trust in Christ at conversion and be made alive in Christ (first time). If the person subsequently habitually chooses to sin (as did the prodigal) he squanders his inheritance and become spiritually dead and separated from the Father. He is no longer alive but spiritually dead. However, if like the prodigal, he abandons his sin and returns to the Father seeking repentance, the Father will welcome him back and he is thus made spiritually alive AGAIN.

BCsenior · Nov 22, 2018

Oldmantook said:
Yes this series of 3 parables is critical to Jesus' teaching that a saved person can indeed become a lost sinner and needs to repent.

Much of the NT teaching on losing salvation is somewhat hidden, obscured, etc. for the sake of the little babes in Christ who are NOT to be discouraged from continuing to take their little baby steps down the narrow path that Jesus talks about. The Holy Spirit will reveal the deeper truths to whomever He so desires! Some believers are SO brainwashed into false doctrine that they are
NOT open to hearing the Truth from the Spirit
(especially through other believers).
E.G. Baptists just love to kick me out of their forums.

Can you lose your salvation?

Regular Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

He’s a Way of life

Devoted to Jesus - Less of me MORE of HIM

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Still an evangelist

Still an evangelist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Still an evangelist

Still an evangelist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Still an evangelist

Well-Known Member

Still an evangelist

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency