Originally posted by mjwhite
Dear Richard,
I am sorry I failed to communicate what I meant. I do not disbelieve your testimomy. I even called you brother. What i was saying was that the proof of your relationship with God is subjective, like mine, like Ben's and like all of ours is. And although sin and salvation is a personal matter in the sense you see it as, it is also a very corporate thing in that we are all a part of the body of Christ. We are to judge those in the church, one reason being in order to be able to affirm or deny fellowship. Affirm because we accept them as believers and give them the right hand of fellowship, or deny because we think as false professors or even false prophets, of whom we wouldn't want to share in their message. Another reason to judge those within the church is to either encourage them in their endeavors or to admonish them to turn from sin.
you said:
You have heard my testimony (and others who have given theirs), and give God all the glory for his mercy, kinds and longsuffering towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for those of us who trust him in all things.
The more you keep talking the more you both sound like you are in agrrement, in this area of "working out your own salvation".
If you want to put yourself under bondage to the keeping of the Law, you are perfectly, able and free to do so, afterall you are not my servants.
The faith God has given me, allows me the freedom to proclaim, his Grace that sets men free from the law, that the whole world believes that it is posible that by the keeping of the law they are able to earn their salvation.
I believe the promises of God and have accepted them by faith, and I KNOW I am free, from having to work to keep what I was never able to keep in the first place.
I agree with you whole heartily. I don't know what I said to make you think otherwise, but I have made errors in communication before here on this website as well as in others of life.
If one is under law, one must obey perfectly. If one is freed from the law, it has no power to condemn that one. If we are freed from the law, what we should do, or what we do we shouldn't do cannot condemn us. Those things are sin -anything not done by faith is sin. Those things are sin -anything done against the will of God.
Does this mean I advocate we can profess Christ, and do whatever we like? Yes and no. No, we can't expect to be heathen immoral pagans. But yes, we DO profess Christ and we DO whatever we like. To say we don't is to deny we have free will.
Those with the Spirit will be led by the Spirit and their lives will reflect that. Oh, not every second, nor maybe every day or week. But they will grow in grace and knowledge and in maturity [Christ-likeness].
If your [whoever reads this, a general statement] life is NOT growing and not reflecting His then you better do a heart search and determine what you really believe, For those that really believe [and not just 'head' knowledge] show that belief by their trust in God as demonstrated by what they do and WHY they do it.
Freedom isn't a license to sin. But sin we still do. But freedom is what we have. Why then shouldn't we sin? One because Jesus died for our sins and if we love Him we want to serve and please Him. Two, if you are comfortable sinning, then you are probably not being led by the Spirit and not His.
Richard, those last remarks were not directed at you, but at all who read them including myself.
He whom the Son sets free is free indeed!
in Him,
mike
mj,
Please forgive my misunderstanding of the point you were putting forth.
and,
Thank you for your clarification, I was not able to grasp what you meant in your previous post.
I trust I haven't lead anyone to believe, that I was espousing, that; "because a person has the Spirit he has a license to sin willfully",
..may it never be. For anyone who would put forth this teaching is not only ignorant of the Word of God but, doesn't understand what he was saved from.
There is no reason for vain disputes; they only come because some inadvertanly open the door and allow mans teachings in, which are contrary to the Word and take root in their human understanding, and all because they fail to seek wisdom and understanding of Gods Word, by the Spirit of Truth.
We should take joy in being able to share Gods word freely, when many do not have such freedoms in the world.
It is good to discuss these things for ones own personal understanding, however, its the Spirit that confirms truth and rejects error.
This is a perfect place to share the word, with each other and then search the scriptures individually, to see if they are so, afterall, the purpose of the Spirit of God who dwells in ALL of Gods children is to teach and lead in ALL truth, and to call to remembrance ALL that Jesus himself taught.
Disagrrements come because some want to be teachers and, in their zeal to do so, study mans writings, rather than the ultimate source of the reason for their writings; the BIBLE.
If we can agree on anything it is He knows, and we don't.
But he has promised, that his people will be taught of GOD, himself; thats why He has given the promise of his SPIRIT
John 14
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you .
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 4
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.
Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
I, for one am willing to believe that, the Word above all else has preeminence, and is able to show
the error in any one teaching of man , and am convinced that He desires that All who are called by His name should TRUST only in His Word and use it, that he might not only edify himself but others who desire the truth, afterall, He wants us to prove it by excersizing it, to discern good from evil.
Thats why he says;
Pov 3
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Bless you,
Richard
