Can You Have Salvation Without Repentance?

[d taylor]

Not sure I follow what you are saying

Well lets back up, do you define repentance as turning from sin or define it as a change of mind, because they are not the same.

 

[timothyu]

Well lets back up, do you define repentance as turning from sin or define it as a change of mind, because they are not the same.

Well when you turn from something you turn to something else so I would say you would be changing your mind or ways in favour of something else deemed more worthy, in this case our self serving ways to the will of God which operates on a principle opposite to serving self.

 

[d taylor]

Well when you turn from something you turn to something else so I would say you would be changing your mind or ways in favour of something else deemed more worthy, in this case our self serving ways to the will of God which operates on a principle opposite to serving self.

Lets say a person is an alcoholic and they repent of the sin of alcoholism. They stop being an alcoholic, they do not necessarily have to turn to something else, to be able to stop drinking. They could just stop drinking.

 

[timothyu]

they do not necessarily have to turn to something else, to be able to stop drinking. They could just stop drinking.

Which is turning to abstinence, the same as people who turn from the will of man to the will of God. Abstinence of the will of man.

 

[d taylor]

Which is turning to abstinence, the same as people who turn from the will of man to the will of God. Abstinence of the will of man.

We can get bogged down in all the word games. But my main point is still, in The Bible repentance is turning from a sin or sins a person, group of people or nation is committing.

 

[SkyWriting]

A person can and does receive God's free gift of Eternal Life without repentance. Belief/faith/trust is what gives a person, God's free gift of Eternal life. Repentance is not a condition given to receive Eternal Life.

Kind of. God does offer the free gift of forgiveness. But many do not accept it and remain stubborn and unrepentant of sin. Not my call, it's their own decision to not accept forgiveness.

This lack of believing that they could be worthy of forgiveness leaves them unforgiven.
This is what Hell is.
When you have sin in your life and refuse forgiveness' for it. That defines Hell.
And it can't end if that is the case.

 

[d taylor]

Kind of. God does offer the free gift of forgiveness. But many do not accept it and remain stubborn and unrepentant of sin. Not my call, it's their own decision to not accept forgiveness.

This lack of believing that they could be worthy of forgiveness leaves them unforgiven.
This is what Hell is.
When you have sin in your life and refuse forgiveness' for it. That defines Hell.
And it can't end.

Sin has nothing to do with receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Jesus took away the sin of the world, every single person who will ever live.

 

[SkyWriting]

Sin has nothing to do with receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. Jesus took away the sin of the world, every single person who will ever live.

Only to those with the faith to accept it.
If they refuse the Holy Spirit's gift, then they are never forgiven.

 

[d taylor]

Only to those with the faith to accept it.

Not what this verse states.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not what this verse states.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Right. But for those who think they have no sins or that Jesus is not qualified, then their sin remains unforgiven, from their point of view.

You've seen them here. They say they are so bad that God will not forgive them.
If they refuse love, they remain lost.

 

[d taylor]

Right. But for those who think they have no sins or that Jesus is not qualified, then their sin remains unforgiven, from their point of view.

You've seen them here. They say they are so bad that God will not forgive them.
If they refuse love, they remain lost.

That is the game of satan, keep people focused on sin which The Messiah has taken care of and the person will fail to look to and believe in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. They continue to focus on themselves and sin.

But that still does not erase that Jesus took away the sin of the world. Unbelievers sins are not even brought up at the great white throne. Only, is their name in the book of life.

 

[timothyu]

But my main point is still, in The Bible repentance is turning from a sin or sins a person, group of people or nation is committing.

Yes agreed, said in different but the same ways - turning from the self serving will of mankind (the original sin) to following the will of God.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is the game of satan, keep people focused on sin which The Messiah has taken care of and the person will fail to look to and believe in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. They continue to focus on themselves and sin.

But that still does not erase that Jesus took away the sin of the world. Unbelievers sins are not even brought up at the great white throne. Only, is their name in the book of life.

Or it's not in there.

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 

[SkyWriting]

Not what this verse states.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrificea for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.7Beloved, I am not writing to you a new commandment, but an old one, which you have had from the beginning. This commandment is the message you have heard. 8Then again, I am also writing to you a new commandment, which is true in Him and also in you. For the darkness is fading and the true light is already shining.9If anyone claims to be in the light but hates his brother, he is still in the darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no cause of stumbling in him. 11But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness.

• He does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
• 12I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven through His name.
• 13I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning.
• I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.b
• I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.14
• I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning.
• I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

But not everyone has accepted forgiveness and overcome the evil one.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[timothyu]

But not everyone has accepted forgiveness and overcome the evil one.

We must first overcome ourselves. We have the adversarial spirit which puts our will ahead of the will of God.

 

[SkyWriting]

We must first overcome ourselves. We have the adversarial spirit which puts our will ahead of the will of God.

Sure. If God were standing right beside you, you might vote to crucify him.
Such things have happened.

 

[timothyu]

Sure. If God were standing right beside you, you might vote to crucify him.
Such things have happened.

Yes they have, but I'm counter-culture like He is.

 

[d taylor]

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrificea for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.7Beloved, I am not writing to you a new commandment, but an old one, which you have had from the beginning. This commandment is the message you have heard. 8Then again, I am also writing to you a new commandment, which is true in Him and also in you. For the darkness is fading and the true light is already shining.9If anyone claims to be in the light but hates his brother, he is still in the darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no cause of stumbling in him. 11But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness.

• He does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
• 12I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven through His name.
• 13I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning.
• I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.b
• I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.14
• I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning.
• I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

But not everyone has accepted forgiveness and overcome the evil one.

A person trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Their sin has already been forgiven. Again Jesus took away the sin of the world.

Last comment i will post on this, i am tired of repeating myself

 

[SkyWriting]

A person trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. Their sin has already been forgiven. Again Jesus took away the sin of the world.

Last comment i will post on this, i am tired of repeating myself

You need to keep repeating yourself, because scripture does not make a good echo.

But most do not have the trust. Only believers do.
Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

John 8:31
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples,

 

[SkyWriting]

So many refuse to believe.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.