Can you fall from being saved?

[Godzchild]

Well in John (I think) it says that if one of his sheep is lost that he will leave the other 99 and go looking for that one and bring it back. Being the good shepherd and all...he can do that....not only that but us being his true sheep hear his voice and follow him...it's a given. Those who don't follow him, obviously didn't hear his voice and are obviously not his sheep.

 

[joyinhim]

Oh and take note of this verse....13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Don't just read the first 2 then skip the last one that you quoted!

Then read up on how we are kept by GOD'S POWER and not our own!!

All good things come from God. All good deeds come from God. That's why we praise Him for all good things and good deeds.

 

[Godzchild]

All good things come from God. All good deeds come from God. That's why we praise Him for all good things and good deeds.

Yay!!! So it's not US that obeys right? But it's Christ in us right? We are to walk in Christ right? And in doing so we donot fulfil the lust of the flesh...right?

It's not about us...it's about God and God always gets the glory!!!

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I think for some people this teaching may be difficult to accept depending on what they believe. As many know, I was raised with wof-type teachings and there is a great stress upon speaking in tongues. In fact, truth be told, many people in the movement look at that as evidence somebody is saved. Well, numerous people have left that movement and many have turned their back on God altogther. I know for some family members, they had a hard time reconciling how somebody could speak in tongues, be slain so on and so forth and then weeks later be living with somebody outside of marriage or some other such thing. I just don't believe tongues, etc... are signs of salvation and these people were never saved. Seems as if for some, it is easier to believe we can lose salvation. I'm in no way saying it is that way for everybody but for some, I think that's why this is an issue.

I know, a little off topic but this is one of the reasons I've been interested in learning about this topic.

 

[joyinhim]

Yay!!! So it's not US that obeys right? But it's Christ in us right? We are to walk in Christ right? And in doing so we donot fulfil the lust of the flesh...right?

It's not about us...it's about God and God always gets the glory!!!

but we still have to stay focused on Him. We have to remember Him everyday. We can goof up every once in a while. But if we are born again, we never keep on sinning. When we sin we will ask for forgiveness and stop sinning.
We still have to have desire to do His will. Then He help us to do His will. If we don't have desire to do His will then we are not born again.

 

[joyinhim]

Let's take this situation for an example...

Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.

He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.

So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?

"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."

What will happen?

He is saved if he recommit to Him. If he never repents I don't believe He is OK with God.

If He was commited christian I don't believe he would be in that situation.
I believe salvation is commitment to Him. Nothing else.

 

[Godzchild]

I think for some people this teaching may be difficult to accept depending on what they believe. As many know, I was raised with wof-type teachings and there is a great stress upon speaking in tongues. In fact, truth be told, many people in the movement look at that as evidence somebody is saved. Well, numerous people have left that movement and many have turned their back on God altogther. I know for some family members, they had a hard time reconciling how somebody could speak in tongues, be slain so on and so forth and then weeks later be living with somebody outside of marriage or some other such thing. I just don't believe tongues, etc... are signs of salvation and these people were never saved. Seems as if for some, it is easier to believe we can lose salvation. I'm in no way saying it is that way for everybody but for some, I think that's why this is an issue.

I actually was brought on the 'tongues salvation' doctrine as well. And I've since walked away from it. Yes 'tis hard but can be done though Christ.

but we still have to stay focused on Him.

Sure we should, but sometimes we don't...and God being our loving Father will chastise us. = God's power!!!!

We have to remember Him everyday.

And when we don't then the Holy Spirit brings us to remembrace. = God's power!!!!

We can goof up every once in a while. But if we are born again, we never keep on sinning.

No we don't ever keep on sinning - so it's a given right? - By God's power!!!!!

What happens to our old nature? You still haven't answered my question.

When we sin we will ask for forgiveness and stop sinning.

Can you tell me where it says that we should ask for forgiveness and stop sinning. Bearing in mind that WE actually can't stop sinning? Thanks (All sin and fall short of the glory of God)

We still have to have desire to do His will.

The desire to do his will is given by God. It's not our desire...rather it's God's. = God's power!!!!

Then He help us to do His will.

Actually he doesn't HELP us do anything Christ just does it through us. End of story! = God's power!!!!

If we don't have desire to do His will then we are not born again.

You're right but you must remember that the desire to do his will comes from God and is resultant of our being born again and changed into a new creation. We do not have the ability to undo this change - we cannot become 'unborn again'. It's not our responsibility to have the desire...rather it's our responsibility to have faith that God has already given us his desire. = God's power!!!!

You see...we are kept by God's power. It all boils down to God having the power AND NOT US!!!! We have HIS desire. We are made righteous through Christ's works and CHRIST'S WORKS ALONE!!!! And not our own - never our own. The works that we show does not justify us to God...rather faith does. We are justified by works in the sight of MEN - but not God!!! We are justified by faith!

God has the power to keep us from falling!!!! Simple as that friend! He preserves us and her perseveres us...we cannot do it...rather it is done by the power of God. When we forget about ourselves for a moment and actually TRUST in God's power to keep us, then we WILL succeed! And we are saved! And remain saved.

Here's another question for everyone.

IS ETERNAL LIFE REALLY ETERNAL?

 

[Godzchild]

He is saved if he recommit to Him.

How does it recommit?

If he never repents I don't believe He is OK with God.

If he never repents then he was NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH!!!! HE WAS NEVER GOD'S CHILD!

If He was commited christian I don't believe he would be in that situation.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe salvation is commitment to Him. Nothing else.

Salvation is by grace through faith and nothing else!

 

[joyinhim]

How does it recommit?



If he never repents then he was NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH!!!! HE WAS NEVER GOD'S CHILD!



WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!



Salvation is by grace through faith and nothing else!

Of course it's by grace. But God is seeking our whole hearted commitment(total commitment) to Him.

 

[Godzchild]

Of course it's by grace. But God is seeking our whole hearted commitment(total commitment) to Him.

And the desire to commit? Where does that come from?

And you didn't give the scripture that says that we must ask for forgiveness and stop sinning.

 

[joyinhim]

And the desire to commit? Where does that come from?

And you didn't give the scripture that says that we must ask for forgiveness and stop sinning.

Aggie I have to go to bed. would you help her out? thank you.

 

[Godzchild]

She doesn't have to - there is no scripture that instructs us to ask for forgiveness and to stop sinning.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Mod Hat​

Just a friendly reminder that we are to treat each other with respect. The sarcasim here is getting a bit thick and needs to stop NOW. Scripture should NEVER be used to slap other people. God has not FINISHED with any of us yet and the use of scripture to try and show someone else how evil they are and you are'nt is incorrect usage of scripture. ​

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Note: Unless I'm wearing the mod hat I'm posting as a regular poster. I'm now posting as a regular poster.

She doesn't have to - there is no scripture that instructs us to ask for forgiveness and to stop sinning.

There are many scriptures that call us to repentance. And Jesus told the woman caught in adultery "sin no more".

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Can you tell me where it says that we should ask for forgiveness and stop sinning. Bearing in mind that WE actually can't stop sinning? Thanks (All sin and fall short of the glory of God)

I wanted to point out that Romans 3:23 says, "For all HAVE sinned, and come short of the glory of God". It's past tense not present.

Also, 2 Peter 1:10 "Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and electure sure, for IF you do these things you NEVER stumble" The verses preceding that one say:

• v 4: be partakers of the devine nature
• v 4: we HAVE escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

Then with all diligence WE are told to add to those two things

• v 5: To your faith add virtue
• v 5: To virtue add knowledge
• v 6: To knowledge add self-control
• v 6: To self-control add patience
• v 6: To patience add godliness
• v 7: To godliness add brotherly kindness
• v 7: To brotherly kindness add love

V 8 and 9 "For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has frogotten that he was cleansed FROM his old sins."

Then Phil 4:13 " I can do ALL thing THROUGH Christ who strengthens ME"

We cannot do anything in and of our selves, yet it does seem to be expected that we put forth some energy towards changing. Of course we cannot change our inner person but we can obey the promptings of the Holy Spirit to do all that adding as listed above...and of course there is always an abundance of opportunities to learn them by being put into situations where we have to practice them

With His strength we overcome. YAH!!

 

[Godzchild]

There are many scriptures that call us to repentance. And Jesus told the woman caught in adultery "sin no more".

That's great but that doesn't answer my question. Also Christ was giving her permission to not sin anymore because he forgave her. Without his forgiveness she would not have a reason to stopping committing adultery. Do you think that the women continued to sin at some time during her life after that point?

My question was...where does the scripture instruct us to ask God for forgiveness and stop sinning.

Also, 2 Peter 1:10 "Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and electure sure, for IF you do these things you NEVER stumble" The verses preceding that one say:

Where does the desire and power come from for us to DO these things? Us?

• v 4: be partakers of the devine nature
  [*]v 4: we HAVE escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

Then with all diligence WE are told to add to those two things

• v 5: To your faith add virtue
• v 5: To virtue add knowledge
• v 6: To knowledge add self-control
• v 6: To self-control add patience
• v 6: To patience add godliness
• v 7: To godliness add brotherly kindness
• v 7: To brotherly kindness add love

V 8 and 9 "For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has frogotten that he was cleansed FROM his old sins."

Who adds them? With what power? We do not have virtue ourselves - but we are given virtue etc...who by?

Then Phil 4:13 " I can do ALL thing THROUGH Christ who strengthens ME"

We cannot do anything in and of our selves, yet it does seem to be expected that we put forth some energy towards changing. Of course we cannot change our inner person but we can obey the promptings of the Holy Spirit to do all that adding as listed above...and of course there is always an abundance of opportunities to learn them by being put into situations where we have to practice them

But even the desire to obey is given by God. He gives us the desire, the power and the means in which we obey. When we don't obey he then convicts us to obedience. And it's this conviction that prompts us to rely on Christ's obedience for OUR obedience. That way he gets the glory and not us!

Please can someone answer my question?

My question was...where does the scripture instruct us to ask God for forgiveness and stop sinning?

 

[James1979]

This is the closest scripture I can find to your answer.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I hope this helps

 

[Godzchild]

That's close but it must be stated that the point is Christ in that particular scripture.

Can someone please give me scripture where is says that we are to ask God for forgiveness when we sin please? thanks

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I'm sorry, I thought I was quite clear that we, in and of ourselves can do nothing. Perhaps that part of my previous post was overlooked.

You asked:

• Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways AND your doings, AND obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.
• Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, AND turn yourselves from your idols; AND turn away your faces from all your abominations.
• Ezekiel 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, AND turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
• Acts 3:9 Repent ye therefore, AND be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
• Acts 16:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent AND turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Repentance of course is exactly that...feeling remorse over falling short of His desire for us. What does repentance look like? If someone is repentant to you for a wrong they have done, what form does it generally take? Generally it usually involves the person apologizing to you and then it's expected that they won't do the same wrong again. I see no reason to believe it's not the same between us and God.

If we're obeying we're not sinning. It's when we stop obeying that we sin.

If we've turned ourselves from the wrong way we are now going the right way and not sinning.

If we've converted we're no longer doing the wrong things.

If we've turned to God, then we are resisting the devil and he's fleeing from us.

That's great but that doesn't answer my question. Also Christ was giving her permission to not sin anymore because he forgave her. Without his forgiveness she would not have a reason to stopping committing adultery. Do you think that the women continued to sin at some time during her life after that point?

Thats an interesting take on such a life changing event in the womans life. No, I believe she obeyed, turned herself, converted, and turned to God. I don't beleive she did continue to sin.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I'm sorry, I thought I was quite clear that we, in and of ourselves can do nothing. Perhaps that part of my previous post was overlooked.

You asked:

• Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways AND your doings, AND obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.
• Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, AND turn yourselves from your idols; AND turn away your faces from all your abominations.
• Ezekiel 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, AND turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
• Acts 3:9 Repent ye therefore, AND be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
• Acts 16:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent AND turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

If we're obeying we're not sinning. It's when we stop obeying that we sin.

If we've turned ourselves from the wrong way we are now going the right way and not sinning.

If we've converted we're no longer doing the wrong things.

If we've turned to God, then we are resisting the devil and he's fleeing from us.

I've been concentrating on other aspects of this thread, but I'm curious about where this is going now.

Okay, so do you make a distinction between continuing to sin and committing a sin?

I do. I believe that once we are saved we no longer continue on in sin. We don't continually commit the same sins knowing they are wrong. We know that there is no temptation that we cannot overcome with the Lord's help. However, occasionally (and far less frequently now that we're saved) we do sin and as a result we pray, repent and ask forgiveness. We don't continue on in that sin.

Although I've known people who believe they are without sin as christians, I've seen them sin numerous times. I only hope that they are not deceiving themselves by not repenting and seeking forgiveness.