Can you be SINLESS?

[CharismaticLady]

I agree we are no longer sinners, we are saints (who sin). In fact, that is a major part of Paul's letters- telling the saints to stop sinning.

If you still sin then you are not a saint, you are still a sinner. You can't be both.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So you are living a perfect life of nothing but prayer, spreading the gospel, and praising the Lord? Without ever doing something for your own enjoyment? Do you only use your computer to Talk about God?
Because if you've so much as "liked" a cute video of a puppy on facebook, you've missed the mark. You sinned.

Evidently you don't know what sin is...

 

[CharismaticLady]

He gave us the Spirit.

We can see in scripture exactly when Peter received the Spirit (John 20:22). Then later we see Peter caught in fear and hypocrisy (Galatians 2:11-14). Receiving the Spirit doesn't equate to sinless perfection from that point forward, and we are given an example of just that in the scriptures themselves.

There is a difference between sins of lawlessness unto death, and trespasses not unto death.

 

[renniks]

Of course, you can't. Only the self-delusional thinks we can pull off the sinless perfection that Jesus demonstrated. There's a good reason why we are told there is zero righteousness from the Law, because if it were possible then Christ died for nothing, but rather we have a righteousness that comes from God.

You show me someone who thinks they are pulling off sinless perfection, I'll show you someone swimming in delusion and self-pride.

Exactly. No one is sinless. And to think you are would be pride, which is sin.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Exactly. No one is sinless. And to think you are would be pride, which is sin.

There is a difference between pride and gratitude.

 

[Archivist]

If you still sin then you are not a saint, you are still a sinner. You can't be both.

Then explain 1 John 1:8-10.

 

[SeventyOne]

There is a difference between sins of lawlessness unto death, and trespasses not unto death.

If the point is like that from the video in the OP, that we must maintain a perfect sinless perfection, then you just told me that he's wrong.

 

[SeventyOne]

There is a difference between pride and gratitude.

Gratitude is something like, "Thank you Lord for forgiving my sins and imputing your own righteousness unto those of us who believe."

Pride is something like, "Thank you Lord that I am not like that person over there who I saw sinning three times this week, and for acknowledging the ways I'm making myself perfect for you."

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is a video that claims that you can:

Sinless Perfectionism is about putting away minor faults or transgressions (i.e. Faults of character like not listening to people too well, or not taking the trash out on time, or going over the speed limit a little on country roads where nobody is around, etc.). Sinless Perfectionism as taught in Scripture is not a salvation issue, but it is a part of the goal of our Sanctification (i.e. In living holy by only the power of God after we are saved by God's grace). Not all sin is the same (1 John 5:16-17). We do have to overcome grievous sin as a part of salvation (Which is meeting the bare minimum level requirement of holiness or holy living after a person is saved by God's grace). Grievous sins are clearly condemned in the Bible with warnings of hellfire or a loss of salvation. Grievous sins are things like murder, hate, lust, adultery, fornication, idolatry, unforgiveness, lying, hating one's brother, not preaching the gospel, not helping the poor in any way, etc. (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-28, 1 John 3:15, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8, etc.). Although Sinless Perfection does involve putting away grievous sin, Sinless Perfectionism is not about exclusively putting away grievous sin.

Maybe things have changed, but the last time I discussed the topic of "Sinless Perfection" at great length, I discovered that the one place that I was allowed to discuss it was in the Christian Scriptures section of CF.

Anyways, if anyone is interested in doing a real study on what God's Word says on this matter: I have listed 50 biblical reasons in defense for Sinless Perfection, and 12 biblical answers to 12 common objections on Sinless Perfection in this thread here:

The Scriptures Teaching on Sinless Perfection.

May God bless you, and may you please well in Christ Jesus.


Updated Side Note:

Now, some folks may try to confuse the issue by pointing to the original languages, like: Biblical Hebrew, and Biblical Greek (as if they really know them - ), but the overwhelming evidence of what God's Word says plainly in our English Bibles on this matter cannot be ignored. Just check out all the verses within the thread link I posted here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Gratitude is something like, "Thank you Lord for forgiving my sins and imputing your own righteousness unto those of us who believe."

Pride is something like, "Thank you Lord that I am not like that person over there who I saw sinning three times this week, and for acknowledging the ways I'm making myself perfect for you."

I replied to you in this thread here (Just in case it is not allowed in this section of the forums).

 

[Der Alte]

Actually the Greek word "krima" was considered to mean "damnation" as early as 225 BC when the Jews translated the Torah into Greek. It was equivalent to "accursed of God" that is about as close to damnation as you can get.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, [κρίμα] and he be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God; ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.​

 

[JIMINZ]

But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time Heb10:12

However, this is a subject not worthy of debate. If I asked you if it was sin not to obey Jesus commands, I wonder how you would respond. If I then gave you a list of Jesus commands and asked you if you perfectly obeyed them, would I get a forthright response? I rather doubt it.

When you learn just where you stand "IN" Christ then maybe, just maybe you will have a glimpse of what I have said.

The fact you do not believe the subject is worthy shows your inability to understand.

All of the hypothetical questions you have posed demonstrate that lack.

 

[renniks]

There is a difference between pride and gratitude.

Yes there is. One is grateful when he realizes that God gives grace. One is prideful if they believe they never sin.

 

[not under law]

When you learn just where you stand "IN" Christ then maybe, just maybe you will have a glimpse of what I have said.

The fact you do not believe the subject is worthy shows your inability to understand.

All of the hypothetical questions you have posed demonstrate that lack.

It is not worthy to discuss with anyone who considers themselves to be sinless/perfect in the flesh. As John says:
If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us 1John1:8

 

[Der Alte]

There is a difference between sins of lawlessness unto death, and trespasses not unto death.

Not according to 1 Jn 5:16. The word for a sin not unto death is amartia, the word for a sin unto death is amartia. The same word.

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin [ἁμαρτάνω/amartano vb] a sin [ἁμαρτία/amartia nn] which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin [ἁμαρτάνω/amartano vb] not unto death. There is a sin [ἁμαρτία/amartia nn] unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.​

 

[1213]

Interesting. He starts by taking the position that those who belong to God cannot sin...

I think that is what Bible says:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

Can you refute that?

 

[JIMINZ]

but not a new body

It is at this point where you dropped the end of thread you were holding, and by doing so you have lost it.

There is a difference between Flesh as being your physical body of Flesh and blood, and "The Flesh" "The Old Man" "This Body of Sin" that Paul speaks about.

When Scripture says.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I,
but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Were you Physically in the Flesh Crucified with Christ?
NO, but your Inner man, the Old Man was

Rom 6:5,6
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this,
that our old man is crucified with him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You must understand the separation of the two, One is a Physical Body, the other is the Spiritual Being.

It is not the Physical Body which Sins, but the Spiritual one.

God told Adam.

Gen 2:16,17
16) And the LORD God commanded the man,
saying,
Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did Adam fall down Dead the day he ate the forbidden Fruit?....No
Was Adam Spiritually Dead to Communion with God?.....YES

The understanding of the two Fleshes seen for the first time.

 

[Jamdoc]

Evidently you don't know what sin is...

Sin is missing the mark. That's what Cheit is, the word where sin comes from. There are more than 10 commandments, and one commandment is
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18
That's not a request.

 

[JIMINZ]

Then explain 1 John 1:8-10.

Isn't your belief something which you have been taught, "You Sin then Confess" by your Denominational Doctrine.

Therefore aren't you only expressing that Doctrine?

 

[JIMINZ]

Then explain 1 John 1:8-10.

My explanation would be, John was teaching relatively new Believers, and he was explaining everything he understood to them, from the beginning as though they had never heard anything before.

He was expressing that everyone is in need of Forgiveness of sins, that no one is exempt, everyone needs to Confess their sins in order to gain Forgiveness and Salvation.

John was not saying after a person becomes a Believer they still sin and are in need of a Savior because, he went on writing for 4 more Chapters.

Why then, after writing what he did in 1 Jon. 1:8-10 did he then three Chapters later, 1 Jon. 3 Contradict everything he wrote in Chapter 1, such as 1 John 3:4-10

1Jn 3:4-10
4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.