Can you be SINLESS?

[not under law]

I want to point out that a lot of the "I don't sin anymore" crowd seem to have a very narrow view of what Sin is.

It reminds me of Matthew 19:16-22
Yeah, you can obey the 10 commandments, but we're all still lacking in righteousness by our own works, we could all do more, even if we don't know how. So we all fall short of perfection no matter how hard we try.
We should want to be without sin, we should be motivated to be righteous in all things, but will we be perfect? Not in this flesh.

Paul said the ten commandments were the letter that kills, the ministration of death and condemnation. I think it is more likely, that those who claim to perfectly obey the ten commandments do not have the understanding Paul did as to what that would entail

 

[Goodhuman]

Paul said the ten commandments were the letter that kills, the ministration of death and condemnation. I think it is more likely, that those who claim to perfectly obey the ten commandments do not have the understanding Paul did as to what that would entail

Jesus said that if you want to be saved you must keep the ten commandments, never read the gospel?

 

[zoidar]

Here is a video that claims that you can:

I think it's hard to know what sin is. Is it sin to watch movies, is it sin to play video games, is it sin to read novels, is it sin to listen to mainstream music? Is it sin to think a selfish thought? Is it sin to accumalate?

The "We are all sinners - Christians" seem to say sin is even in our best efforts, because we have a sinful nature. The "We have to be sinless to be saved - Christians" seem to have a problem to define sin, saying we have to be sinless, but at the same time that we make errors and are on our way towards perfection. In what way are not sinless people perfect? I don't get it.

 

[SeventyOne]

I think it's hard to know what sin is. Is it sin to watch movies, is it sin to play video games, is it sin to read novels, is it sin to listen to mainstream music? Is it sin to think a selfish thought? Is it sin to accumalate?

The "We are all sinners - Christians" seem to say sin is even in our best efforts, because we have a sinful nature. The "We have to sinless to be saved - Christians" seem to have a problem to define sin, saying we have to be sinless, but at the same time that we make errors and are on our way towards perfection. In what way are not sinless people perfect? I don't get it.

Even Paul wasn't perfect in himself (Philippians 3:12), but he continued to strive towards it. In 1 Timothy 1:15, he even states that he was still a chief sinner. So, while we are not in ourselves perfect, we are still made perfect by the righteousness of God by faith.

 

[not under law]

Jesus said that if you want to be saved you must keep the ten commandments, never read the gospel?

Yep, I've read the bible a few times. Which covenant was Jesus speaking under? Have you never read beyond the gospels? Have you never read Paul's letters? You have no righteousness of obeying the law. Paul states the law engraved in stone is the letter that kills/the ministry of death and condemnation. Only the Ten Commandments were engraved in stone, the rest was written on parchments. You have a new righteousness under the new covenant, it was the old one that gave you righteousness of obeying the law. If you state, salvation/justification/righteousess is obeying the law, you haven't understood the message of the new covenant

 

[Peter J Barban]

Even Paul wasn't perfect in himself (Philippians 3:12), but he continued to strive towards it. In 1 Timothy 1:15, he even states that he was still a chief sinner. So, while we are not in ourselves perfect, we are still made perfect by the righteousness of God by faith.

Yes, Paul was very open about his trials and experiences. I expect Paul would have told us if he no longer sinned. He says "follow me as I follow Christ" but he never says "be perfect like me as I am perfect like Christ." In fact, no one in the Bible claimed to be sinlessly perfect like Christ.

Of course, this is no justification to sin. But let us be careful we don't put a burden on our backs that not even the Apostles claimed they could carry.

 

[lsume]

Here is a video that claims that you can:

You can’t live a sinless life without Christ.

 

[Danthemailman]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[coffee4u]

Jesus said that if you want to be saved you must keep the ten commandments, never read the gospel?

Yes, and nowhere does Jesus say "if you want to be saved you must keep the ten commandments"
Chapter and verse please.

 

[Goodhuman]

Yes, and nowhere does Jesus say "if you want to be saved you must keep the ten commandments"
Chapter and verse please.

Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

 

[zoidar]

Even Paul wasn't perfect in himself (Philippians 3:12), but he continued to strive towards it. In 1 Timothy 1:15, he even states that he was still a chief sinner. So, while we are not in ourselves perfect, we are still made perfect by the righteousness of God by faith.

Sure hope you are right, because I'm not free of sin.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Of course, you can't. Only the self-delusional thinks we can pull off the sinless perfection that Jesus demonstrated. There's a good reason why we are told there is zero righteousness from the Law, because if it were possible then Christ died for nothing, but rather we have a righteousness that comes from God.

You show me someone who thinks they are pulling off sinless perfection, I'll show you someone swimming in delusion and self-pride.

"if it were possible then Christ died for nothing"
You have hit on the heart of the matter. The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict us of sin so that we repent from that sin. It is not to achieve "sinless perfection" as we are still in the flesh.
Sinless perfectionism reduces the level of divine righteousness to the level of our own performance. This requires that we quench the work of the Holy Spirit when He seeks to convict us of sin. Perfectionists are only being deceived.
Blessings

 

[SeventyOne]

Sure hope you are right, because I'm not free of sin.

No one is. Resolve to do your best not to sin willfully, and then repent daily of those you did anyway. The current daily burden of a believer. I can't tell you how ready I am to get rid of this sinful flesh for good. I hate it.

 

[Goodhuman]

No one is. Resolve to do your best not to sin willfully, and then repent daily of those you did anyway. The current daily burden of a believer. I can't tell you how ready I am to get rid of this sinful flesh for good. I hate it.

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So it is possible to be without fault before the throne of God. This is the ones who are temple of Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[Danthemailman]

Yes, and nowhere does Jesus say "if you want to be saved you must keep the ten commandments" Chapter and verse please.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said - "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.." yet Jesus was showing the rich young ruler how short he falls of keeping even the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37), yet the rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's heart and knew that his wealth had become an idol for him, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation. (John 3:15,16,18) The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vss. 21-23). The rich young ruler went away sad because he could not part with his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, then why isn't that that the consistent pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - .."keep the commandments," yet that's not what Paul said. Instead, Paul said "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." Jesus knows the hearts of all people and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows their hearts and where their needs are. Jesus did not respond to the rich young ruler or the woman at the well or Nicodemus in the exact same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is that salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..).

 

[Archivist]

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Well said. As is stated in 1 John "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

 

[SeventyOne]

Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So it is possible to be without fault before the throne of God. This is the ones who are temple of Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

They are without fault because it states right in that passage that they are redeemed. That means they were bought with a price, just as every believer whose righteousness comes from God. They are perfect before God the same way I am perfect before God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Here is a video that claims that you can:

The answer is no. Not in this life.

Let's remember that sin isn't just big, bold, flagrant transgressions of God's Divine Law such as murder, theft, etc. Sin is missing the mark, it is the failure to do what we ought to do and the doing of what we ought not to do--in thought, in word, and in deed. To even be angry against our brother is a sin, to sexually objectify another person in our mind is a sin.

Anything less than the absolute perfection that is Jesus Christ our Lord Himself, is sin.

Someone cuts you off in traffic and for a brief moment you curse them, even silently and only in your mind and heart? You have missed the mark. Someone takes too long in line at the grocery store and you get impatient and irritable? Sin. See someone on the street who needs a bite of lunch but you ignore them? Sin.

The danger in a theology of sinlessness is that it promotes lawelessness and denies repentance. It is a theology of death that shipwrecks faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[zoidar]

The danger in a theology of sinlessness is that it promotes lawelessness and denies repentance. It is a theology of death that shipwrecks faith.

-CryptoLutheran

Very interesting put. Thank you!

 

[CharismaticLady]

No. I'm going by the scripture.

My point #1: "there is zero righteousness from the Law"

Galatians 3:21 "or if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law"​

My point #2: "because if it were possible then Christ died for nothing"

Galatians 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."​

My point #3: "but rather we have a righteousness that comes from God."

Phillippians 3:9 "not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith"
​

Knowing that I am not perfect in all thoughts, words, and deeds, is just being honest. People who think they are pulling it off are liars.

Our righteousness is not by our keeping the Mosaic law of circumcision or other outward laws like keeping kosher, or keeping specific days holy in our own sinful flesh. We must be born again of the SPIRIT to have His righteousness, then our new nature naturally will keep the righteous requirements of the eternal law of love.