Can you be SINLESS?

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
I agree it's always good to aim the highest possible, since we all fall short as the scriptures say.

I believe you to be a Christian, so don't pull verses out of context and apply them to yourself when they are no longer true for you. What that verse you quoted means is ever since Adam sinned, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And if we say (as an unbeliever) that we have not sinned, we call God a liar. That is the reason Christ came, to cure the sin problem. How? By giving us His all powerful sinless Spirit inside us to change the desires our old carnal nature had, and make us born again with different desires - a new creature. Desires to be righteous, as Jesus is righteous. Because we now have the mind of Christ. We go from being a sinner to being a child of God.

I know that is a popular doctrine that we are still sinners saved by grace. But that mindset will keep you a sinner and you will never be free. And no sinner will enter heaven; only those who have overcome sin completely. Revelation 22:11 says only the righteous and holy will be in heaven with God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Peter J Barban

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,474
973
62
Taiwan
Visit site
✟97,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I hope you've described yourself. Do you remember being baptized in the Holy Spirit?
I have not been baptized in the spirit as a one-time event. Though I agree this happens to some. I have become filled with the Holy Spirit gently over time. This also happens to some. The method is not as important as the result: the fruit of the spirit.

I have not become sinless, but neither do I say we that must sin. I agree it is possible to live without conscious/volitional sin, though few can do so for any length of time, especially when God brings up a new sin-issues to deal with.

I suppose sin is in our life is like an onion, when you remove one layer, there is always another layer underneath. Thus the theoretical goal of human sinless perfection, in practice, requires a longer path than a human lifetime.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,371
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
You will not sin again after you are being born again, according to bible.
Everyone sins on a daily basis.
Romans 7 should resound with the life of every Christian, it is a STRUGGLE against the flesh, and people make mistakes because we're not perfect, we do "that which we hate" - Sin. Sometimes it's something we just think about, that is a sin, any thought, word, action that is not in line with the will of God is sin. Anytime you could be doing something in line with the will of God and are not actively doing it, it is sin.
Watching a TV show when you could be going door to door preaching the Gospel, is sin.
Doing anything except what is absolutely vital to maintain your body that is not to the glory of God, is sin.
Are you doing anything other that eating, sleeping/biological NEEDS, other than praying, reading and meditating on the word of God, preaching the Gospel, praising the Lord and going to Church? Then you're sinning.
the hebrew word is "Cheit" which is "To miss the mark"
What is the mark?
Perfection.
If you aren't perfect, you are a sinner.

If we could be perfect, we wouldn't need a savior, Jesus would have died for nothing.
Jesus died for us because we CANNOT be perfect, as an offering of grace.
So yes, people born again, still sin, because they are still imperfect, and they are still flesh, and the flesh sins.
Because we are sinners, every single one of us, we DEPEND on the Lord, we NEED Him, even more than air and water and food. Because without Him we die, and not just the physical appointed death of the flesh but death of the spirit.
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
I have not been baptized in the spirit as a one-time event. Though I agree this happens to some. I have become filled with the Holy Spirit gently over time. This also happens to some. The method is not as important as the result: the fruit of the spirit.

I have not become sinless, but neither do I say we that must sin. I agree it is possible to live without conscious/volitional sin, though few can do so for any length of time, especially when God brings up a new sin-issues to deal with.

I suppose sin is in our life is like an onion, when you remove one layer, there is always another layer underneath. Thus the theoretical goal of human sinless perfection, in practice, requires a longer path than a human lifetime.

From the Reformation there were some false doctrines that were taught that are still being taught in many Protestant churches. I find it amusing that there are Christians that don't actually sin, but due to these doctrines that we will always struggle with sin (untrue) they parrot these doctrines as if they are true in our own life. Romans 6 Paul teaches that we are dead to sin - fact. But he also says we must also "reckon" ourselves dead to sin. Be mindful that you have power over sin because we have been raised up with Christ. It seems that Paul said that as a warning to stop telling yourself you are a sinner, when you are actually a child of God and are now a partaker of the diving nature.
 
Upvote 0

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 14, 2019
2,596
654
76
Tennessee
✟140,294.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Everyone sins on a daily basis.
Romans 7 should resound with the life of every Christian, it is a STRUGGLE against the flesh, and people make mistakes because we're not perfect, we do "that which we hate" - Sin.

Before Christ the Jews had the law. But they weren't born again. So they had to try to keep the law while battling a carnal nature that was a war with the law. That struggle is what Romans 7 is all about. Because of sin, it was called the law of sin and death, for the wages of sin is death. That is NOT the life of a Christian. (But that is what false doctrines out of the Reformation teach. And we keep parroting them calling ourselves sinners.)

But keep reading. In chapter 8 Paul now says of himself, but the law of the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, has freed me from the law of sin and death.

Both Jesus and John calls those who have been freed from sin, children of God. So if you have been cleansed of ALL sin, are you still a sinner? NO!!! You are either a sinner or a child of God, but you can't be both.
 
Upvote 0

SeventyOne

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
4,675
3,188
✟167,098.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
Why do you believe that all the scripture that say you can are false? Are you just going by your own experience?

No. I'm going by the scripture.

My point #1: "there is zero righteousness from the Law"
Galatians 3:21 "or if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law"​

My point #2: "because if it were possible then Christ died for nothing"
Galatians 2:21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."​

My point #3: "but rather we have a righteousness that comes from God."
Phillippians 3:9 "not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith"
Knowing that I am not perfect in all thoughts, words, and deeds, is just being honest. People who think they are pulling it off are liars.
 
Upvote 0

Peter J Barban

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2016
1,474
973
62
Taiwan
Visit site
✟97,647.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
From the Reformation there were some false doctrines that were taught that are still being taught in many Protestant churches. I find it amusing that there are Christians that don't actually sin, but due to these doctrines that we will always struggle with sin (untrue) they parrot these doctrines as if they are true in our own life. Romans 6 Paul teaches that we are dead to sin - fact. But he also says we must also "reckon" ourselves dead to sin. Be mindful that you have power over sin because we have been raised up with Christ. It seems that Paul said that as a warning to stop telling yourself you are a sinner, when you are actually a child of God and are now a partaker of the diving nature.
I agree we are no longer sinners, we are saints (who sin). In fact, that is a major part of Paul's letters- telling the saints to stop sinning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jamdoc
Upvote 0

Daniel9v9

Christian Forums Staff
Chaplain
Supporter
Jun 5, 2016
1,928
1,714
38
London
Visit site
✟394,138.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Scripture?

Scriptures say that no one is good. Not even one. Only God is good. Christ plainly calls us evil in Matthew 7, and this is addressing believers. The apostles struggled with sin, despite having faith in Christ.
cf. Romans 3:10 Matthew 7:11 Luke 18:19 Luke 9:23 Romans 7

Yet, through faith in Jesus Christ the Son of God, we are declared righteous in His sight, because of God's grace and the work of Christ.
cf. Mark 16:16 Genesis 15:6 Romans 1:17 John 1:29


Consider the petition, in the Original Greek it says "DEBTS"

Mat. 6:12
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

DEBT:
G3783
ὀφείλημα
opheilēma
of-i'-lay-mah
Something owed, that is, (figuratively) a due.; morally a fault: - debt.

How is something that is a Sin owed?

According to you it is Sins, "Forgive us our sins"

Now sin:

1 Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

SIN:
G266
ἁμαρτία
hamartia
ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).

G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

Yeah, that means sin. Sin, in short, is rebellion towards and rejection of God and His Word - His Law. The Bible uses different terminology for it, such as sin, evil, unrighteousness, wickedness, trespasses, offence and debt. In the Lord's Prayer, when we pray to God to forgive our debt or trespasses, we are asking God to forgive us our sins. That is, for breaking the Law. Even in the definition you quoted it says: "morally a fault"
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,371
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Before Christ the Jews had the law. But they weren't born again. So they had to try to keep the law while battling a carnal nature that was a war with the law. That struggle is what Romans 7 is all about. Because of sin, it was called the law of sin and death, for the wages of sin is death. That is NOT the life of a Christian. (But that is what false doctrines out of the Reformation teach. And we keep parroting them calling ourselves sinners.)

But keep reading. In chapter 8 Paul now says of himself, but the law of the SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, has freed me from the law of sin and death.

Both Jesus and John calls those who have been freed from sin, children of God. So if you have been cleansed of ALL sin, are you still a sinner? NO!!! You are either a sinner or a child of God, but you can't be both.

So you are living a perfect life of nothing but prayer, spreading the gospel, and praising the Lord? Without ever doing something for your own enjoyment? Do you only use your computer to Talk about God?
Because if you've so much as "liked" a cute video of a puppy on facebook, you've missed the mark. You sinned.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SeventyOne

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
4,675
3,188
✟167,098.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
And for that very reason Christ came, to take away our sin, the very reason the law existed (to show us our sin). What did Christ give us in place of the written law that makes us fulfill the righteous requirements of the law, so we are no longer under the law?

He gave us the Spirit.

We can see in scripture exactly when Peter received the Spirit (John 20:22). Then later we see Peter caught in fear and hypocrisy (Galatians 2:11-14). Receiving the Spirit doesn't equate to sinless perfection from that point forward, and we are given an example of just that in the scriptures themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jamsie
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,371
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I agree we are no longer sinners, we are saints (who sin). In fact, that is a major part of Paul's letters- telling the saints to stop sinning.
That's a way of saying it that I agree with and like. I suppose calling myself a sinner after being saved isn't constructive, but I am humble to admit that I'm not perfect is all I really mean.
I try, and I hate when I know I should be doing something spiritual and am not (which is sin) or when I think about something that isn't God or scripture, like I mentioned to CharismaticLady, liking a cute video of a puppy on facebook. Seems harmless and innocent enough, but in that time I could have been reading the bible, or praying, or sharing the gospel with someone even online, so instead I did a vain thing, which is not what God would want me to do, so that's sin.
 
Upvote 0

bmjackson

Newbie
Supporter
Aug 10, 2007
979
325
UK
✟293,276.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
It is a lie from the devil, that once we become perfect, there is no possibility of falling into sin again. It is a terrible thing and not easy to recover from again, but it happens as we see in the scriptures. The devil tells us that if a person who claims to be sinless ever sins again their testimony is void.
 
Upvote 0

Goodhuman

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2020
568
214
dfgdfsgdf
✟58,992.00
Country
Cambodia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Everyone sins on a daily basis.
Romans 7 should resound with the life of every Christian, it is a STRUGGLE against the flesh, and people make mistakes because we're not perfect, we do "that which we hate" - Sin. Sometimes it's something we just think about, that is a sin, any thought, word, action that is not in line with the will of God is sin. Anytime you could be doing something in line with the will of God and are not actively doing it, it is sin.
Watching a TV show when you could be going door to door preaching the Gospel, is sin.
Doing anything except what is absolutely vital to maintain your body that is not to the glory of God, is sin.
Are you doing anything other that eating, sleeping/biological NEEDS, other than praying, reading and meditating on the word of God, preaching the Gospel, praising the Lord and going to Church? Then you're sinning.
the hebrew word is "Cheit" which is "To miss the mark"
What is the mark?
Perfection.
If you aren't perfect, you are a sinner.

If we could be perfect, we wouldn't need a savior, Jesus would have died for nothing.
Jesus died for us because we CANNOT be perfect, as an offering of grace.
So yes, people born again, still sin, because they are still imperfect, and they are still flesh, and the flesh sins.
Because we are sinners, every single one of us, we DEPEND on the Lord, we NEED Him, even more than air and water and food. Because without Him we die, and not just the physical appointed death of the flesh but death of the spirit.

I said what is according to bible.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
 
Upvote 0

Mountainmanbob

Goat Whisperer
Supporter
Sep 6, 2016
15,961
10,817
73
92040
✟1,096,353.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I woke up very early this morning
probably sinned before my first cup of coffee?
Why?
Because, my brain was thinking.
Flesh was turned on.
Until it is turned off
sin will be present.

Big sins often cause Repentance.
Many little ones probably slip by?

M-Bob
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jamsie
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

not under law

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2020
428
115
Worcester
✟18,172.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I said what is according to bible.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
So how could Paul refer to the Corinthian church as: 'The church of God' Did they commit no sin?
 
Upvote 0

not under law

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2020
428
115
Worcester
✟18,172.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John3:9

You really have to read the bible as one cohesive whole.
If you asked the vast majority of Christians if you had to be perfect in your flesh/sinless to be a christian they would respond 'No' for they know and admit to not being sinless. For no one is(1John1:8)

However, if you asked the vast majority of Christians if a person can be a Christian if they freely live a sinfull lifestyle, they will also reply. 'No' (1John3:9)

Two very different things.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,371
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I said what is according to bible.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So are you professing to never sin? Do you live a perfect life of prayer, meditating and studying the word of God, and preaching the Gospel without ceasing?
 
Upvote 0

SeventyOne

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
4,675
3,188
✟167,098.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvary Chapel
Marital Status
Married
I said what is according to bible.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

So, when Paul documents Peter's sins in Galatians 2, are you implying Paul was telling us that Peter was not born of God?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,371
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,984.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I want to point out that a lot of the "I don't sin anymore" crowd seem to have a very narrow view of what Sin is.

It reminds me of Matthew 19:16-22
Yeah, you can obey the 10 commandments, but we're all still lacking in righteousness by our own works, we could all do more, even if we don't know how. So we all fall short of perfection no matter how hard we try.
We should want to be without sin, we should be motivated to be righteous in all things, but will we be perfect? Not in this flesh.
 
Upvote 0