Can we sustain Obamanomics?

[Thekla]

Indeed. Wilkerson prophesied what would be coming down the road a mile away---and noted many of the reasons behind it to be reasons that neither the Left or the Right often seems prepared to really address seriously when it comes to the many ways destruction has been allowed/designed while still trying to stay alive. For you cannot have self-destructive behavior and lifestyles that may lead to times of prosperity--and then complain about things getting "tough" or looking for someone to blame and demand to fix a problem when reality sets in/times are no longer prosperous (just like the Prodigal Son in Luke 15 who had lots of fun till famine hit and things caught up). As said before, we'd have less problems if people truly understood the dangers of materialism/greed and lust for power....all of it tying back into the negatives that come from having a consumeristic lifestyle that leads to mess (more shared here in #93 ).

Wilkerson would indeed fit in with the likes of others such as Keen and Roubini.
I would think principles are principles, regardless of the cultural or religious context. The concept, as you know, of common grace and partial revelation given to all men in differing ways....as the Lord gives all cultures aspects of His heart/mind that are expressed and wisdom will be wisdom, with its ultimate source in the Lord ( Colossians 2:3 ). Plenty of things Christians have learned from non-Christians and it's always wild to see how others can interact in a healthy manner.

Equity, although confirmed within the scriptures, is something other cultures have noted as well to be beneficial--and when practiced alongside pious charity/generousity, one can see how positives will occur. The principle transcends culture.

Likewise, the principle of greed/selfishness leading to destruction has been noted in many places...and has proven itself true repeatedly, as a society will always self-destruct when the poor/impoverished and defenseless are ignored-----with destruction coming in the form of being unable to survive in hard times when prosperity ends/people used to comfort no longer know how to cope or interact in true community for sustainability....or destruction happening when the poor have had enough and you end up with riots/violence and mass chaos (as occurred in the French Revolution --a movement that mirrored the American Revolution in many ways....more here, here/here and here/here/here ).

In some ways, it seems that many problems tend to arise in America due to the Indivualistic perspective that American thinking can often lead to....the concept of being "self made men" rather than seeing how we're all interconnected in our actions...and it always messes people up

On a side note, where you ever able to see what I wrote you earlier on some of the charts you made? Specifically, I was speaking of #147 (as it concerns businesses thriving/succedding in harm times and having a myriad of methods for doing so, with focus being especially upon Asian communities/their work in the black community) and #150 (as it concerns the issue of others actually seeing it as favorable to develop an international perspective/establish themselves abroad with what the President has been making possible).

I did, thank-you

And took my time for the same reason; it's a bit like the wide screen movies "formatted to fit your screen" by panning the image a la watching a tennis match Though I do like expanses - I cannot read on our Nook - I can't stand not having in eye a map of the ideas that precede and follow the ideas in the paragraph I'm reading.

I saw recently a sort of documentary or coverage on the effort to promote African American businesses in predominantly AA Neighborhoods. Our neighborhood is mixed; the local gas station was owned by a Pakistani couple, and the drycleaner's is owned by an AA man who bought out the previous (Italian) owner. I think there is something also to be said for the pov of an immigrant -- of the sense of promise found in a fresh start, in possibility. And the idea that sometimes it is 'easier to love what you choose'.

I also recently read of a corporation (sorry, can't recall which) that is doing quite well during the downturn -- they responded to shrinking (European ?) budgets by offering their products in smaller quantities. Still making quite a profit.

Idleness, as caused by unemployment for example, can be a yoke or an opportunity to pursue things that might otherwise seem a little reckless.

I'm still eager to see how the Mondragon approach works in Cleveland -- that just seems so promising !

Pursuing employment over-borders is becoming more typical in Europe. 20 years ago, after finishing his PhD, my bil could not find a job here. He ended up accepting a position teaching in South America - he's still there and quite happy. It was a sort of return; my fil took the family to SAmerica when my husband was a child -- he worked for a US firm that had expanded there.
It had a positive effect on my husband; he understands that life can have a different pace and focus. Plus he can understand everything that he hears in our neighborhood (vs. me, only some ).

 

[SolomonVII]

Uncommon Knowledge | Hoover Institutionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SvWbjpcy9jI

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I did, thank-you

And took my time for the same reason; it's a bit like the wide screen movies "formatted to fit your screen" by panning the image a la watching a tennis match Though I do like expanses - I cannot read on our Nook - I can't stand not having in eye a map of the ideas that precede and follow the ideas in the paragraph I'm reading..

Makes sense

I saw recently a sort of documentary or coverage on the effort to promote African American businesses in predominantly AA Neighborhoods. Our neighborhood is mixed; the local gas station was owned by a Pakistani couple, and the drycleaner's is owned by an AA man who bought out the previous (Italian) owner.

If you remember the name of the documentary, let me know...as I'd love to investigate it.

I think there is something also to be said for the pov of an immigrant -- of the sense of promise found in a fresh start, in possibility. And the idea that sometimes it is 'easier to love what you choose'.

Real

There's something to be said, however, on how many who do come over still find a lot of difficulty due to how many things are set up. And that goes for African Americans as well who also have the same type of vision as others do and yet realize that some things are very difficult to get through without having a larger addressment of issues.

Just saw an interesting documentary on the subject recently, as it concerns the issues of how health/wealth were intertwined and how many wishing to work/jump in cannot when there are disparities in economic levels that are not addressed and those realities tie in with their disabilities.

For more, one can go here to PBS or look up the series entitled "Unnatural Causes"-as it's an in-depth series examining the lives of others (be it Immigrants, Blacks or whites) and the ways they've interacted with socioeconomic realities and have brought to light things that are often swept under the rug.

In Sickness and In Wealth: Health in America
Food for Thought: What is Hunger in America?
60 million Americans are poor and hungry
"There's No Small Stuff": Being Poor in Louisville

I also recently read of a corporation (sorry, can't recall which) that is doing quite well during the downturn -- they responded to shrinking (European ?) budgets by offering their products in smaller quantities. Still making quite a profit.

Very interesting..

Idleness, as caused by unemployment for example, can be a yoke or an opportunity to pursue things that might otherwise seem a little reckless.

It all depends on choices and trying to make the most out of what's present.

I'm still eager to see how the Mondragon approach works in Cleveland -- that just seems so promising !

The Mondragon approach does hold a lot to offer, especially seeing how it combined the efforts of the workers with the corporation together

Loved studying the system and the fruit it's bringing:

The Cleveland Model - YouTube​

• Richmond, CA Co-ops modeled after Mondragon, Spain
• In Cleveland, Worker Co-Ops Look to a Spanish Model - TIME
• Aaron Bartley: Rust Belt Cities and the New Urban Agrarianism
• Not‐Just‐For‐Profit Alternative Business Models - Community ...
• Cleveland Goes to Mondragon - Ohio Employee Ownership Center
• Mondragon, Cleveland, Sacramento << Corporate and No One Gets Hurt

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Pursuing employment over-borders is becoming more typical in Europe. 20 years ago, after finishing his PhD, my bil could not find a job here. He ended up accepting a position teaching in South America - he's still there and quite happy. It was a sort of return; my fil took the family to SAmerica when my husband was a child -- he worked for a US firm that had expanded there.

It had a positive effect on my husband; he understands that life can have a different pace and focus. Plus he can understand everything that he hears in our neighborhood (vs. me, only some ).

What has been the most difficult thing for you in handling his working abroad...and what is something you've seen as a benefit, if I may ask?

 

[Thekla]

What has been the most difficult thing for you in handling his working abroad...and what is something you've seen as a benefit, if I may ask?

My husband's not working abroad - he moved back to the states to go to college. His family returned some years later (by the time we got married).

But he certainly seems to appreciate the Colombian pace of life, and the familial focus of the culture. Moreso after he experienced a life threatening event - he ended up on a cardiac step-down unit when he was 36. It was touch and go for a bit. After he recovered, he was quite clear about his priorities.

Which touches on something you noted in the above post; that AAs may be held back by very real roadblocks or even the perception of them. My husband's health problems revealed what I had known already in a truly rough manner.

We had moved south so he could 'play the game' and move up the corporate ladder - he accepted a carrot/stick transfer. His health condition at first was undiagnosed, and though one of the most driven workers I've known, he was unable to work for some time - and then had a long recovery from surgery (back). Per company policy, he first used all sick time, then accumulated past sick time, then vacation time. He then asked to use his short term disability - and was refused. HR sent him back down (per policy) to his store mgr. Again refused. The only person left for appeal was the regional manager. Again, refused. My husband was permitted to work from home for part of his convalescence (15-20 hrs/wk) - otherwise we would have been destitute. (I couldn't work - he couldn't care for himself.) One afternoon, when I went to turn in paperwork, I happened to see his reg. mgr. - who was visiting the store mgr. They were discussing an accident the reg. mgr. had been involved in - which had involved Hispanic immigrants. The reg. mgr. mentioned he was sure they would sue -- and then turned directly to me and said, "Because Hispanics do that - they want a free ride." Everyone there knew my husband was Hispanic, and had already intimated that they thought his condition was not that serious.

I was dumbfounded. All of the subtle - and not so subtle - 'different' requirements that were required of my husband took on a new meaning. And all the attacks on his dept., including all of the roadblocks placed in his way that he managed to overcome by working even harder ... and eventually, the realization from other employees there about the same sort of mis/treatment. They all eventually quit - my husband, an AA mgr., and two floor staff - openly gay, and Asian.

Those roadblocks are real - and they are truly discouraging. We are still digging out from under that mess.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

My husband's not working abroad - he moved back to the states to go to college. His family returned some years later (by the time we got married)..

Praise the Lord that he's back home with ya now

But he certainly seems to appreciate the Colombian pace of life, and the familial focus of the culture. Moreso after he experienced a life threatening event - he ended up on a cardiac step-down unit when he was 36. It was touch and go for a bit. After he recovered, he was quite clear about his priorities.


Which touches on something you noted in the above post; that AAs may be held back by very real roadblocks or even the perception of them.

To be clear, were you using "AAs" to mean "African American" or "Asian American" in the context of what you said?

My husband's health problems revealed what I had known already in a truly rough manner.


We had moved south so he could 'play the game' and move up the corporate ladder - he accepted a carrot/stick transfer. His health condition at first was undiagnosed, and though one of the most driven workers I've known, he was unable to work for some time - and then had a long recovery from surgery (back). Per company policy, he first used all sick time, then accumulated past sick time, then vacation time. He then asked to use his short term disability - and was refused. HR sent him back down (per policy) to his store mgr. Again refused. The only person left for appeal was the regional manager.

Again, refused. My husband was permitted to work from home for part of his convalescence (15-20 hrs/wk) - otherwise we would have been destitute. (I couldn't work - he couldn't care for himself.) One afternoon, when I went to turn in paperwork, I happened to see his reg. mgr. - who was visiting the store mgr. They were discussing an accident the reg. mgr. had been involved in - which had involved Hispanic immigrants. The reg. mgr. mentioned he was sure they would sue -- and then turned directly to me and said, "Because Hispanics do that - they want a free ride." Everyone there knew my husband was Hispanic, and had already intimated that they thought his condition was not that serious.


I was dumbfounded. All of the subtle - and not so subtle - 'different' requirements that were required of my husband took on a new meaning. And all the attacks on his dept., including all of the roadblocks placed in his way that he managed to overcome by working even harder ... and eventually, the realization from other employees there about the same sort of mis/treatment. They all eventually quit - my husband, an AA mgr., and two floor staff - openly gay, and Asian.

Wow...

Sad to see where many of the things noted to be "requirements" were not necessarily about the legal aspects of what was needed....but having a coded reality to them that is often hard to expose until you see it for yourself.

If I may ask, what type of Hispanic is your husband? I'm Panamanian and I got the impression that your husband was Columbian

Those roadblocks are real - and they are truly discouraging. We are still digging out from under that mess

Sad to hear. Do you feel that such realities are a part of the background of many differing arguments brought up when it comes to being against certain policies for others in this presidential term?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

My husband's not working abroad - he moved back to the states to go to college. His family returned some years later (by the time we got married).

But he certainly seems to appreciate the Colombian pace of life, and the familial focus of the culture. Moreso after he experienced a life threatening event - he ended up on a cardiac step-down unit when he was 36. It was touch and go for a bit. After he recovered, he was quite clear about his priorities.

Which touches on something you noted in the above post; that AAs may be held back by very real roadblocks or even the perception of them. My husband's health problems revealed what I had known already in a truly rough manner.

We had moved south so he could 'play the game' and move up the corporate ladder - he accepted a carrot/stick transfer. His health condition at first was undiagnosed, and though one of the most driven workers I've known, he was unable to work for some time - and then had a long recovery from surgery (back). Per company policy, he first used all sick time, then accumulated past sick time, then vacation time. He then asked to use his short term disability - and was refused. HR sent him back down (per policy) to his store mgr. Again refused. The only person left for appeal was the regional manager. Again, refused. My husband was permitted to work from home for part of his convalescence (15-20 hrs/wk) - otherwise we would have been destitute. (I couldn't work - he couldn't care for himself.) One afternoon, when I went to turn in paperwork, I happened to see his reg. mgr. - who was visiting the store mgr. They were discussing an accident the reg. mgr. had been involved in - which had involved Hispanic immigrants. The reg. mgr. mentioned he was sure they would sue -- and then turned directly to me and said, "Because Hispanics do that - they want a free ride." Everyone there knew my husband was Hispanic, and had already intimated that they thought his condition was not that serious.

I was dumbfounded. All of the subtle - and not so subtle - 'different' requirements that were required of my husband took on a new meaning. And all the attacks on his dept., including all of the roadblocks placed in his way that he managed to overcome by working even harder ... and eventually, the realization from other employees there about the same sort of mis/treatment. They all eventually quit - my husband, an AA mgr., and two floor staff - openly gay, and Asian.

Those roadblocks are real - and they are truly discouraging. We are still digging out from under that mess.

What you experience often determines what you expound/advocate on. And for many, it often seems like the reasons that stories like the one you shared aren't told is due to a disconnection from the people who've experienced them.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Uncommon Knowledge | Hoover Institutionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SvWbjpcy9jI

I don't have time to watch this whole movie. What do you like about it?

Does he agree with your apparent suggestion that Mitt "Superman" Romney can miraculously increase everybody's income by an average of 33%, which will lead to a 33% increase in tax revenue, and fix the debt problem?

 

[Thekla]

Praise the Lord that he's back home with ya now



To be clear, were you using "AAs" to mean "African American" or "Asian American" in the context of what you said?

Wow...

Sad to see where many of the things noted to be "requirements" were not necessarily about the legal aspects of what was needed....but having a coded reality to them that is often hard to expose until you see it for yourself.

We kept coming up with different explanations for what was happening ... for ex., the store manager dumped the computer inventory system used for his dept., and refused to replace it. There were so many incidents - and most of them actually cost the company a great deal of money. Nor was I previously unaware of racism directed at others, including dear friends. When But this was not only wrong, it was sinister ... we had four children at the time, and they were also deeply affected by the fall-out. Living in the north, I was aware also of ways around it - there was always someone who was not of that mind, and there were (state, community) agencies to assist. Not that this makes it easy, but by the time we moved south I hadn't heard of someone's livelihood being undermined. (As it was an employed-at-will state, any recourse we had would likely have cost him his job anyway.)

If I may ask, what type of Hispanic is your husband? I'm Panamanian and I got the impression that your husband was ColumbianSad to hear. Do you feel that such realities are a part of the background of many differing arguments brought up when it comes to being against certain policies for others in this presidential term?

Are you first or second generation ? Have you been back to Panama ?
My husband's dad came to the US from Barcelona - my husband is from Brooklyn, and they moved to first Mexico City and then Bogota when he was 8.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Does he agree with your apparent suggestion that Mitt "Superman" Romney can miraculously increase everybody's income by an average of 33%, which will lead to a 33% increase in tax revenue, and fix the debt problem?

Wow, is Romney actually making claims that or is just some of his supporters. That's a whopper there.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

We kept coming up with different explanations for what was happening ... for ex., the store manager dumped the computer inventory system used for his dept., and refused to replace it. There were so many incidents - and most of them actually cost the company a great deal of money. Nor was I previously unaware of racism directed at others, including dear friends. When But this was not only wrong, it was sinister ... we had four children at the time, and they were also deeply affected by the fall-out. Living in the north, I was aware also of ways around it - there was always someone who was not of that mind, and there were (state, community) agencies to assist. Not that this makes it easy, but by the time we moved south I hadn't heard of someone's livelihood being undermined. (As it was an employed-at-will state, any recourse we had would likely have cost him his job anyway.).

Got ya. For some reason, mentioning how they got rid of the computer seemed to imply that they were trying to get rid of information that is stored on computers...and can still be taken off them when working it correctly. Happens all the time when it comes to E-Waste and the ways others hack into information by using discarded computers.

There has always been racism up north...and it's often more concealed. Others have noted it when it came to Martin Luther King experiecing a lot different when it came to the ways institutional racism was present in the north by claiming to want "fairness" and yet doing things that blantantly do not line up or evidence true concern for certain workers....more here and here/here.

Are you first or second generation ?

Third Generation, if I'm understanding it correctly (as my great-grandmother/great-grandfather, grandmother/grand-aunts and grand-uncles and mother/aunt and uncle all lived there.

Have you been back to Panama ?
My husband's dad came to the US from Barcelona - my husband is from Brooklyn, and they moved to first Mexico City and then Bogota when he was 8

Haven't gone back yet, although my mom/younger sister have...and we're planning a trip this December that I'm hoping to go to. Cool to hear that about your husband's background, by the way

 

[doubtingmerle]

Wow, is Romney actually making claims that or is just some of his supporters. That's a whopper there.

Well, no, Romney hasn't made that claim. His supporters do claim that Romney can fix our deficit problem by fixing the economy. That is silly. Since current government revenues need to be increased by 33% to equal current budgeted spending, we would need to spur the economy by almost 33% to make the improved economy produce 33% more tax revenue. (If the actions to spur the economy include a tax cut, the increase in the economy must be even greater if it is going to balance the budget.)

When my debate partner was reminded of this, he responded with a 40 minute youtube link. I don't have time to watch the link. I was wondering if the diatribe there supports the assertion that we can fix the deficit simply by spurring the economy, and if he thinks Romney could spur the economy enough to fix the deficit.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

His supporters do claim that Romney can fix our deficit problem by fixing the economy. That is silly. Since current government revenues need to be increased by 33% to equal current budgeted spending, we would need to spur the economy by almost 33% to make the improved economy produce 33% more tax revenue. (If the actions to spur the economy include a tax cut, the increase in the economy must be even greater if it is going to balance the budget.)
.

Interesting...