Can we obtain perfection?

[danielmears]

If you believe, have knowledge and understanding you have the righteousness of God/Christ, who are one, in you. SO, yes we are told to, be perfect, which is Christ calling those things which be not as though they were, believing that we too are or will be perfect. Once we understand and believe, then you are justified by faith. Then, the righteousness of God/Christ is in you.

 

[FireDragon76]

No. God commands what we ought to do, not necessarily what we can do. Humans are unable to do what God commands sufficient to merit God's grace and good will.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes and Jesus went onto say Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees you shall not enter the kingdom....

I actually think that is an ironic statement considering, judging by the Scriptures, they were not righteous at all. I believe Jesus is just making a rhetorical point against hypocrisy.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Wait wait I was almost perfect this morning -- that was until I woke up.
M-Bob

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus is presenting an aspirational ideal. An aspirational ideal is meant to give your life direction and purpose, not to crush you or other people under its weight. As Jesus said, his yoke is easy and his burden is light.

 

[fhansen]

I think Jesus was presenting us with a realistic ideal, to the extent that we remain in communion with God. That's the essence of the New Covenant: "Apart from Me you can do nothing."

The Pharisees simply didn't do enough in a sense, just as Paul explained in Phil 3 that he didn't do enough even though he excelled at righteousness based on the law.

If we want to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, so that it comes from the right place, from a non-hypocritical place; we must come to love, to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. Then obedience flows naturally even as we'll continue to struggle with attraction to non-obedience throughout our lives. And this love comes by grace, which comes by communion with God, which is established by faith which is made possible by the reconcilation that Jesus won between man and God.

 

[Jonaitis]

Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

No, I don't believe we will ever attain perfection while we remain in this body and indwelling sin therein. We will never be able to mortify and eradicate sin completely from our lives. We must grow toward holiness, but we will still fall short of that perfection we will enjoy in glory. Even Paul the apostle, though one of the most godliest men in history, still fell very short of perfection by a long shot. From one to ten, he stood at most at a two, and we much less!

Glorification is when we will be perfectly sanctified, and we will never reach that point while here. Sadly, there have been great preachers and men of God who held to this belief (Wesley), but they were wrong. No where does it clearly says we can be perfect in the body and the soul while we remain alive, and whoever says you can isn't telling you the truth. The passage in Matthew may refer to being "completed" rather than "flawless" if you look into the Greek.

“Man's nature, so to speak, is a perpetual factory of idols.” - John Calvin

 

[Jonaitis]

Wait wait I was almost perfect this morning -- that was until I woke up.
M-Bob

Coffee completes your morning.