Can we obtain perfection?

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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.
 

SkyWriting

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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

Its a state of mind, like pigpen considering himself morally equal with the rest of the gang, in spite of his cloud of dirt.

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Justin Robinson

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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

You really answered your own question. No.

We are called to be free from our sins but we still remain flesh. My sin with lust and inappropriate contentography has decreased as I have been renewing my mind daily and giving it over to the Lord. But, that doesn’t mean that I haven’t sinned again in that area, because I have.

We are called to strive for perfection as the Father is perfect (the verse you dropped). That’s the goal and mindset of walking out the Faith, but we are still flesh and will sin because we are not Jesus.
 
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You really answered your own question. No.

We are called to be free from our sins but we still remain flesh. My sin with lust and inappropriate contentography has decreased as I have been renewing my mind daily and giving it over to the Lord. But, that doesn’t mean that I haven’t sinned again in that area, because I have.

We are called to strive for perfection as the Father is perfect (the verse you dropped). That’s the goal and mindset of walking out the Faith, but we are still flesh and will sin because we are not Jesus.

That's something else I hear a lot "strive". Nowhere does Jesus say strive. And to my knowledge there is no verse that says that. I just searched for one in (KJV and Geneva). So where does this word strive pop up from because so many insert that word?

I hope that didn't read sarcastically. :)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="Great_Depression, post: 73521774, member: 415784"]Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.[/QUOTE
================================

sure. as Jesus says. Only believe. It is God's Battle , not ours. Trust Him.
As Jesus told His disciples, "If you think you can do this, you have already failed; but if you trust your heavenly Father to accomplish salvation, and EVERYTHING concerning salvation in this life and the next, it is already accomplished. "

Realize "perfect" in English is NOT perfect translation from the original.

See what is meant when someone calls a football player "perfect" ?

Sort of like "all you can be today", without playing for the other team !!!! i.e. don't ever serve the devil.

ALWAYS serve JESUS !
 
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Justin Robinson

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That's something else I hear a lot "strive". Nowhere does Jesus say strive. And to my knowledge there is no verse that says that. I just searched for one in (KJV and Geneva). So where does this word strive pop up from because so many insert that word?

I hope that didn't read sarcastically. :)

Nah, it didn’t.

The Word doesn’t say “strive” that I’m aware of; not even in the Hebrew context.

I’m saying... for me, “Be perfect as the Father is perfect” means that I attempt or ‘strive’ to be like Jesus. Knowing full and well that I will never achieve perfection.
 
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QUOTE="Great_Depression, post: 73521774, member: 415784"]Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.[/QUOTE
================================

sure. as Jesus says. Only believe. It is God's Battle , not ours. Trust Him.
As Jesus told His disciples, "If you think you can do this, you have already failed; but if you trust your heavenly Father to accomplish salvation, and EVERYTHING concerning salvation in this life and the next, it is already accomplished. "

Realize "perfect" in English is NOT perfect translation from the original.

See what is meant when someone calls a football player "perfect" ?

Sort of like "all you can be today", without playing for the other team !!!! i.e. don't ever serve the devil.

ALWAYS serve JESUS !

Interesting! a lot of times I forget about the fact that all bibles, even modern hebrew bibles are translations off of other translations. Oh, how I wish the originals were available and I could read hebrew/greek. The best I can do is KJV (1611) or the Geneva(1559). Supposedly the two closest english versions.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Interesting! a lot of times I forget about the fact that all bibles, even modern hebrew bibles are translations off of other translations. Oh, how I wish the originals were available and I could read hebrew/greek. The best I can do is KJV (1611) or the Geneva(1559). Supposedly the two closest english versions.
For a surprise, tonight, read Romans 2.
 
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Nah, it didn’t.

The Word doesn’t say “strive” that I’m aware of; not even in the Hebrew context.

I’m saying... for me, “Be perfect as the Father is perfect” means that I attempt or ‘strive’ to be like Jesus. Knowing full and well that I will never achieve perfection.

Ah ok, gotcha. Maybe accepting Jesus and trying our very best and asking for forgiveness when we mess up is in a way being perfect as humans if you get what I'm saying.
 
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Yes and Jesus went onto say Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees you shall not enter the kingdom....
But Paul said in Phil3 that he wants to be found not having his own righteousness which is from the law, but the righteousness which is a free gift from God through faith in Jesus.
When you believe upon Jesus you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus...not by what you do...but what He did for you.
That righteousness is a free gift to you,,,for you to receive daily.
Instead, we go for a long time, pushing his righteousness away and trying to establish our own righteousness as Rom 10:1-4 speaks about.
Jesus is your righteousness
Jesus in you...is your perfection before the Father.
He makes you blameless and spotless before God...every moment.
The old man died....can never be made perfect...
The new man is Christ Jesus and you joined as one person.
On your own you are nothing, can do nothing...
But you are not on your own are you.
You are perfect in God's sight IF you believe Jesus is your ONLY righteousness.
If you start trying to do things to become more righteous...then you are not trusting in Jesus, but self....which is just a delusion anyway...for your new true self is Christ and you as one.
 
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Justin Robinson

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Ah ok, gotcha. Maybe accepting Jesus and trying our very best and asking for forgiveness when we mess up is in a way being perfect as humans if you get what I'm saying.

I get that for sure.

But....

Repenting (doing a 180) is what the fruit of our lifestyles will display.

I personally believe that the Lord can and has delivered folks many times over with all issues that life brings.

But again, if the Lord doesn’t deliver me from a certain ordeal, I’m still obligated to chase after freedom from that thing.

Proverbs puts it this way. I’ll paraphrase.. A man who knows the Word but doesn’t do what it says is like a man who looks at a mirror, turns around, and forgets what he looks like.

Which is why I believe in “striving” for perfection ‘As my Father is’.
 
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Yes and Jesus went onto say Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees you shall not enter the kingdom....
But Paul said in Phil3 that he wants to be found not having his own righteousness which is from the law, but the righteousness which is a free gift from God through faith in Jesus.
When you believe upon Jesus you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus...not by what you do...but what He did for you.
That righteousness is a free gift to you,,,for you to receive daily.
Instead, we go for a long time, pushing his righteousness away and trying to establish our own righteousness as Rom 10:1-4 speaks about.
Jesus is your righteousness
Jesus in you...is your perfection before the Father.
He makes you blameless and spotless before God...every moment.
The old man died....can never be made perfect...
The new man is Christ Jesus and you joined as one person.
On your own you are nothing, can do nothing...
But you are not on your own are you.
You are perfect in God's sight IF you believe Jesus is your ONLY righteousness.
If you start trying to do things to become more righteous...then you are not trusting in Jesus, but self....which is just a delusion anyway...for your new true self is Christ and you as one.

That is sort of how I view it too and meant to add something close to that but forgot haha.
 
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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou has sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast loved them, as thou loved me. John 17:20-23 If this was not possible Jesus would not have prayed this for us and all believers. The perfection comes with the realization of this oneness. We are to do as Jesus instructed, love God with all of our heart, our very being and one another, for God is love. Then realizing the Christ within, one with God we find we are children, sons and daughters of the living God, joint heirs to the kingdom, a spiritual realm, where all things move in accordance to the Word! This word is not merely text on a page but is alive and filled with power! Glory to God! We are spiritual beings, made in the image of God, living in a spiritual realm for God is in and through all things, including us. Jesus came to show us the way, to clarify the meaning of Old Testament writings but only those with ears hear and those with eyes see, spiritual eyes and ears. So, I believe yes, we may be made perfect but it takes diligent seeking, becoming as a child, just accepting the Word, Jesus, the Word made flesh. It really is so wondrous! With God all things are possible...
 
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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

Yes, there are many Christians who do not like what the Bible says so they either try to ignore it, or change what it says.

Anyways, you may be interested in checking out my thread here at Christian Forums. I came up with 50 verses that relate to this topic.

The Scriptures Teaching on Sinless Perfection.

May God bless you.
 
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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

Yes you can.

But not until you know by experience what it means to be “dead in Christ and alive unto God”.

Until this truth is know by experience you will have pouts of victory as well as pouts of defeat. But the victory will never abide or last. The fellowship you have with Jesus will be broken continually by sin and than repenting, sinning and repenting. This will continue you are so sick of it, the falling and repenting, the falling and repenting, that you would willfully die rather than continue to live this way. When this point is reached, when you hate sin more than you love life. When you would be willing to enter into death rather than to continue to live your life in this falling and sinning, falling and sinning. It is than that in this desperation of knowing that you must stop sinning, but see no earthly way to accomplished it, that you in your sinful state cry out to God to have Him do something in you, that you can not do for yourself. Than in simple faith you trust Him with your whole life. That you throw yourself on His altar of mercy by faith, and trust Him to do in you what you can not do for yourself. For until this point is reached man will say with the mouth they are trusting Christ with there whole heart and life, but the truth is they are doing their best to do so. But their best isn’t good enough, for their best is still the work of self or the flesh. It is when they loose all hope of ever succeeding they they stop trying to help God out, and simply take Him at His word, and believe what He said He has done for them by providing the salvation of the sinner.

Which is uniting them with Christ in His death, so they could be free from the power of sin in their life’s. For until one would rather die than sin, they will forever still be under the power of sin. For only death can free a man from themselves. And this is what is meant by being “united with Him in death” so one might walk in newness of life. For only though death to self, (all of self,) can one walk in newness of life, where they walk in constant victory over the world the flesh and the devil. Whereby their fellowship is unbroken with God by their particular chosen sins. They still sin but no longer “sins on death” they sin in ways, but their conscious deliberate sins they have victory over. Now it turns to cleaning up their “character flaws” as it were, where they are not as patient or loving as they should be. But their fellowship with God is unbroken but for those times when He brings this or that sin to one awareness and they quickly repent, the fellowship is restored instantly the joy of their salvation returns their fellowship with God is broken but for a moment. As they grow in this “walk of faith” they learn to so listen to God in their innermost being, that they can tell before they sin that what their planning is a sin and will repent or change course before they sin so their fellowship with God is even more unbroken.

So yes it is possible and yes all Christians are called to it. Loose not heart if you have not reached it yet, it is for all that search for it with all their hearts. Question is, are you willing to give up your life unto death so you can have such a freedom to walk in victory over the old man and his deeds. If you are, this truth is yours, just don’t stop pressing in to it. For it is for all that would be willing to die rather than sin.

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me
 
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Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

Philippians 3:12

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

We press forward .... we will not be perfect until Jesus takes us to heaven.
 
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So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

Do we even know what perfect means?

I think important thing to understand first is, eternal life is not a reward for perfect life, it is a gift for righteous people:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

And I have understood righteousness means right understanding, or wisdom of the just that makes person want and do right things. Righteous person understands it is good to love as the Bible tells and righteous person wants to do so, because of that. It is not about getting reward, but about doing what one knows is good and right. It maybe that even righteous person does mistakes, but if person is righteous, he regrets, when he knows he has done wrongly, like in this:

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself like this: 'God, I thank you, that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week. I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn't even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:10-14

Bible tells eternal life is for righteous and righteous lives, because he is loyal to God:

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

If person is loyal (has faith), he keeps God’s commandments, which are really in, “love your neighbor as yourself”. All Law is in that.

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

I think we should not worry about are we perfect, because I think we are not good to judge that, but if we love like the Bible teaches, I think everything will go well. :)

Also, about perfection:

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

That means, imperfect people can enter Kingdom of Heaven?
 
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